Eisenhelm
gran dutch of douchery
- Location
- Colombia
This option will affect the trout population, I think.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Earth
While this one also has the Dhar problem, it also is the traditional solution in all existent Waystones, it'd be harder to argue against that one than the new Hysh-solution.
I would prefer to build it solid with the original methods as best as we can manage. One of the main bonuses to this is the tightening of alliances with the Dawi. If needed we can switch out for a Wizard Rune and provide a Clockwork and Runic Storage Design but I want to try a make something that brings us together and is as effective as possible. The Reverse-engineered choice is a bit of a risk but it makes the usefulness of the Eonir clear and wins them some political capital while allowing the possibility of it being simplified with use.
- Location
- Norway
My priorities is to have something that requires continued cooperation, but which requires minimum maintenance, and which is hopefully not too politically fraught. Therefore I present:
So we end up with something that is moderately difficult, with moderate to low cost, which everyone gets to participate in, and that doesn't require maintenance.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Collegiate Fascis
Requires a Wind-based Wizard. Moderately difficult, low cost. Requires a connection to the Waystone network.
Mathildes buy in, does not increase the density of dhar.
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard
Requires a magic-user. Simple, low cost.
Wizard buy in.
[ ] [STORAGE] [Moderate] Runed
Requires a Runesmith. Simple, low/moderate/high cost.
Dwarf buy in, balanced between cost and dealing with surges.
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord
Requires a Wind-based Wizard. Moderately difficult, low cost.
Does not require maintenance, elf buy in, does not make the wizards break the articles.
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
Requires a speaker of Anoqeyån or Lingua Praestantia. Simple, trivial cost.
Doing both with the Jade enchantment seems really cool, and makes for a good emergency shunt if one of the nexuses falls, but might be more of a long term goal. Figure getting our money worth from cooperating with Ulthuan is good, and dumping the magic into the vortex makes the high elves happy.
Requires a Wind-based Wizard. Moderately difficult, low cost. Requires a connection to the Waystone network.
Mathildes buy in, does not increase the density of dhar.
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard
Requires a magic-user. Simple, low cost.
Wizard buy in.
[ ] [STORAGE] [Moderate] Runed
Requires a Runesmith. Simple, low/moderate/high cost.
Dwarf buy in, balanced between cost and dealing with surges.
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord
Requires a Wind-based Wizard. Moderately difficult, low cost.
Does not require maintenance, elf buy in, does not make the wizards break the articles.
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
Requires a speaker of Anoqeyån or Lingua Praestantia. Simple, trivial cost.
Doing both with the Jade enchantment seems really cool, and makes for a good emergency shunt if one of the nexuses falls, but might be more of a long term goal. Figure getting our money worth from cooperating with Ulthuan is good, and dumping the magic into the vortex makes the high elves happy.
So we end up with something that is moderately difficult, with moderate to low cost, which everyone gets to participate in, and that doesn't require maintenance.
Ambit
Help me
- Location
- Third Circle of Hell
Collated all the options without the prose so we can look at all the choices in a single glance.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not hugely, since people are allowed to eat the fish afterwards. People catch that many fish to eat anyway, most places.
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thinking on it more, it might be worth it to aim for two variants of the waystone as a goal for the project; 'soft' waystones which are deployed in safer areas and can utilise vulnerable and 'testbed' components like the clockwork and the reverse engineered storage and 'hard' waystones made of more durable components designed to be deployed in places like Troll Country and the forest of shadows.
Maybe it's just me, but the answer is obvious, right?
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Runic Inductor
Requires a Runesmith. Simple, negligible cost. Will result in more Dhar and less of the other Winds when large amounts of multiple Winds are present.
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard
Requires a magic-user. Simple, low cost.
[ ] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
Requires Von Tarnus or an Elven Archmage. Very difficult, low cost. Difficulty and requirements will reduce over time if built in large numbers.
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Collegiate
Requires a Light Wizard. Simple, low cost.
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
Requires a speaker of Anoqeyån or Lingua Praestantia. Simple, trivial cost.
This gives us the best scalability to performance to long term gain. Am I missing something?
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Runic Inductor
Requires a Runesmith. Simple, negligible cost. Will result in more Dhar and less of the other Winds when large amounts of multiple Winds are present.
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard
Requires a magic-user. Simple, low cost.
[ ] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
Requires Von Tarnus or an Elven Archmage. Very difficult, low cost. Difficulty and requirements will reduce over time if built in large numbers.
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Collegiate
Requires a Light Wizard. Simple, low cost.
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
Requires a speaker of Anoqeyån or Lingua Praestantia. Simple, trivial cost.
This gives us the best scalability to performance to long term gain. Am I missing something?
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking too.
- Location
- Norway
The runic inductor results in more dhar, which isn't necessarily bad, but seems like something we should try to avoid. The collegiate foundation requires wizards to meddle with dhar, and is therefore politically difficult.
- Location
- 'Straya
For Leyline transmission, when you connect one of the 'new' waystones up to the network, are you able to then connect to that waystone? As in, will this slowly expand the network, or only allow a more effective catch in the local area?
I'd say yes because otherwise the method would be almost worthless to us, and boney isn't in the habit of leaving out such crucial facts.
I think you reversed the Rune and Capstone. Since the Dwarven Rune is presumed to be the best and the Capstone the worst. Personally I would prefer Eonir Foundation as it is politically safer and potentially more effective and easier to source wizards for.
- Location
- Earth
@Boney What limitations does the whole "password" thing impose on any Kislev new Waystones? I'm guessing it cannot be used there, so would that mean that the Layline transmission method wouldn't work in Kislev because of it?
Or, for the capstone: for Collegiate Fascis it says: Requires a connection to the Waystone network.
-Does that mean a Waystone made with that method cannot be used in Kislev at all? (Since it does not connect to the rest of the Waystone network, just it's own, little one)
Or, for the capstone: for Collegiate Fascis it says: Requires a connection to the Waystone network.
-Does that mean a Waystone made with that method cannot be used in Kislev at all? (Since it does not connect to the rest of the Waystone network, just it's own, little one)
I'm thinking that a good combination would be combining generally cheap and low maintenance options from humans, elves and dwarves so everyone is forced to participate, the reverse engineer option for something that decreases in cost as we upscale and research, and the dual network-river option with either Hedgewise or Jade methods. River spirits could be finnicky, but it's still a possibility, because in this case the river is a backup.
Higher cost materials might also be worth it in the case of weakening storms of magic.
Higher cost materials might also be worth it in the case of weakening storms of magic.
- Location
- 'Straya
If @Tobtorp is right about my question above then creating a networked node will then allow you to connect to that new node. So Kislev will be protected eventually, but you have to build up to it (like building a road, but for deadly magics).
I think Kislev should be fine because to make a circular pathway like they have they would have needed to connect the new waystone at fort Alexandronov (I think that's the name) so kislev (or more likely the ancient widow) can connect new waystones.
For the purpose of building the capstone, I really like the stone flower. We already have to have House Tindomiel create a lot of our waystones, so the necessity for High magic is less onerous than it might otherwise be.
Secondly, the more perfect this component is, the less it might cause problems elsewhere.
Second in favorite is the pancollegiate fascis.
I am actually pretty against the simple dwarves rune structure, because that would be a very tempting target for "salvage."
If I were a Black Magister or Chaos Sorcerer, I would be thrilled to separate it from the waystone structure, put it anywhere I want, and watch it become a Dhar generator.
Secondly, the more perfect this component is, the less it might cause problems elsewhere.
Second in favorite is the pancollegiate fascis.
I am actually pretty against the simple dwarves rune structure, because that would be a very tempting target for "salvage."
If I were a Black Magister or Chaos Sorcerer, I would be thrilled to separate it from the waystone structure, put it anywhere I want, and watch it become a Dhar generator.
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- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- It/Them
damn, I really want that double transmission one for extra "fuck you, chaos" vibes, through that difficulty....
Also, anything with maintenance is a bad idea I think, while it increases the chance of keeping the knowledge about waystone construction alive, it also introduces a bad failure point.
Also, anything with maintenance is a bad idea I think, while it increases the chance of keeping the knowledge about waystone construction alive, it also introduces a bad failure point.
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I'd be tempted by this.
[] Plan Near-Original+
-[ ] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
-[ ] [RUNE] Dwarven
-[ ] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
-[ ] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord
-[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Both (specify which Riverine)
--[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
--[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Riverine (Spirit)
It requires both elven and dwarven involvement in construction, and is the closest recreation of the original Waystone plus an upgrade for the riverine leyline function.
I'd make a particular note on the Storage option. I think the refinement over construction is a virtue in itself, as we may be able to have the Colleges observe the iterations to reverse engineer elven enchanting techniques.
The reason I go with the riverine spirit option is that we're dealing with states here. They probably want to keep on good terms with the spirits/gods of their rivers anyway, and have the leavers required to do so. The advent of major canals may give some previously unavailable negotiating options with them. It may even be logistically easier for states to do so once centrally with each river. Given that two transmission mechanisms compounds the difficulty, then choosing the simpler Riverine option makes sense here, and it doesn't require maintenance on the ground which may be difficult where the riverine transmission is most useful.
[] Plan Near-Original+
-[ ] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
-[ ] [RUNE] Dwarven
-[ ] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
-[ ] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord
-[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Both (specify which Riverine)
--[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
--[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Riverine (Spirit)
It requires both elven and dwarven involvement in construction, and is the closest recreation of the original Waystone plus an upgrade for the riverine leyline function.
I'd make a particular note on the Storage option. I think the refinement over construction is a virtue in itself, as we may be able to have the Colleges observe the iterations to reverse engineer elven enchanting techniques.
The reason I go with the riverine spirit option is that we're dealing with states here. They probably want to keep on good terms with the spirits/gods of their rivers anyway, and have the leavers required to do so. The advent of major canals may give some previously unavailable negotiating options with them. It may even be logistically easier for states to do so once centrally with each river. Given that two transmission mechanisms compounds the difficulty, then choosing the simpler Riverine option makes sense here, and it doesn't require maintenance on the ground which may be difficult where the riverine transmission is most useful.
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Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
It think that we should eventually aim for 2 types of waystones: A Leyline stone and a River Stone. Basically the Leyline stone should be the one we use for shoring up and repairing the old network while the River Stone should be used to expand the network beyond it's current borders.
Maybe. These things are extremally important so they might be able to get enough buy-in. Remember though High Mages are rare even for elves, this is a big ask.
I propose this for both immediate mass deployment in Kislev and it's nice collaborative nature. It's very cheap at the cost of requiring two kinds of maintenance, but disciplined manpower feels like a requirement Kislev will gladly accept. It's also very easy at the cost of requiring a lot of different expertise, but that again feels like a welcome downside.
This would commit us to a second design that actually links up to the network, however.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Runic Inductor Requires a Runesmith. Simple, negligible cost. Will result in more Dhar and less of the other Winds when large amounts of multiple Winds are present.
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard Requires a magic-user. Simple, low cost.
[ ] [STORAGE] None No requirements, no cost. Not compatible with leyline transmission.
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Clockwork Required an engineer or clockmaker. Moderately difficult, low cost.
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Riverine (Hedgewise) Requires a Hedgewise. Simple, trivial cost, requires weekly maintenance. Reduces difficulty and cost of Foundation.
In short: Easy and immediately applicable, but can't fully finish this arc on it's own.
This would commit us to a second design that actually links up to the network, however.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Runic Inductor Requires a Runesmith. Simple, negligible cost. Will result in more Dhar and less of the other Winds when large amounts of multiple Winds are present.
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard Requires a magic-user. Simple, low cost.
[ ] [STORAGE] None No requirements, no cost. Not compatible with leyline transmission.
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Clockwork Required an engineer or clockmaker. Moderately difficult, low cost.
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Riverine (Hedgewise) Requires a Hedgewise. Simple, trivial cost, requires weekly maintenance. Reduces difficulty and cost of Foundation.
In short: Easy and immediately applicable, but can't fully finish this arc on it's own.