Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
But if you can think of a sneaky way to get him in there, you absolutely can vote to do so.
Grab a strand of Ranaldian aligned aetheric energy and press it into one of the "X"s while praying?
Or maybe the number 4.

Of course I also have this farcical mental image of Mathilde saying "Alright everyone the treaty is basically done. Now everyone grab whatever holy relics you have at hand, dip them in ink, and press an imprint of them onto the bottom of the treaty parchment"
 
I do think defining what exactly 'proper operation' of the network is would be valuable, it was brought up earlier Ulthuan might disagree with others interpretations. Perhaps fairly if they need the magic for Ulthuan not to sink, but better now than when we start getting accusations thrown around later.
 
Honestly I'm inclined to just vote Yes. All this talk of sneaking in Ranald feels so-so.



See here:

There is no world in which the Empire wouldn't object to Marienburg joining to try to be recognized as a nation.
AFAIK, the Empire has long since recognized Marienburg as a nation. Certainly everyone else has. The Empire would I think, be far more worried that Marienburg would use the treaty as a method of going "you can't attack us, our fort's got a Nexus in it!" than about recognition. They want Marienburg back, but they've signed treaties with them before (if you go with 1e's Sold Down the River, they've signe done specifically acknowledging Marienburg's independence) and deal with them as a separate power.
 
It's not just a personal religious coup to sneak a god of sneakiness and protection of the innocent into an international agreement to cooperate about the magical infrastructure that protects the entire world, when He had also helped this along directly. It's 1) kind of a big deal, 2) deserved, 3) thematic, 4) fitting for us to do as His faithful worshipper. We wouldn't even be giving anything up.

Anyway, I'll be voting for any plan that does so in a tasteful enough manner.
 
If Mathilde getting killed would scupper the project, then it'll scupper the project regardless of this additional clause or not. If it won't, it won't.
The way to ensure the Project can survive Mathilde is to begin to put mechanisms into place that ensure continuity. How else are we to do that if not by diplomatic means? And if we're to do it by diplomatic means, what better time is there to create those mechanisms than the writing of the treaty outlining all members' commitments to the exact tasks and competencies that the Project covers?
 
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We can get the scribe to replace the numbers on the agreement with roman numerals.
Specifically making the choice to turn 8 into IIX

No other place will the X appear other than the segment for gods.

No other changes necessary.

You're welcome Ranald

IIX
Yeah, putting the Ranald X on the same line as the other gods turns it thematic enough that I think it's an autopick for me.
 
Honestly I'm inclined to just vote Yes. All this talk of sneaking in Ranald feels so-so.



See here:

There is no world in which the Empire wouldn't object to Marienburg joining to try to be recognized as a nation.
Yes, and it seems people are wanting concrete rules that would not allow Empire effective veto for that.
The current rules could be argued to have a veto, but concrete rules that do not require everyone to agree, would not.
 
I do think defining what exactly 'proper operation' of the network is would be valuable, it was brought up earlier Ulthuan might disagree with others interpretations. Perhaps fairly if they need the magic for Ulthuan not to sink, but better now than when we start getting accusations thrown around later.
I do think it's important that everyone is on the same page, but I think it's the sort of thing that charachters in quest would have discussed and agreed on offscreen.

Edit: my head is melted so I can't give any suggestions to what they might be due consideration, but I would also love for there to be two more clauses.

Edit: I'd also be fine woth getting Mathilde's name in the first letter of each clause, or the first/last letter of the last word of each clause/reversed.
 
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I think quibbling about the wording so that we can subtly insert our initials into the first word of every clause is suitably Mathilde-ian. This is an agreement between nations, after all, so I think we might not end up getting our name on the document itself otherwise.
 
Yeah, the issue with Marienberg, as I understand it, is that the Empire wants to renege on the treaties it's signed essentially out of pure revanchism.

The best solution here is for the Empire to give up on reconquering Marienberg and for Marienberg to receive guarantees of its independence strong enough that it doesn't feel the need to play games to strengthen its own independent deterrence.

The problem with this is that the Empire doesn't want to give up its territorial ambitions and also, as the Nordland-Laurelorn issue demonstrates, has a poor record of treaty compliance with neighbours that aren't able to force them to at all times.

In many ways the problem with Ulthuan's guarantee is that it's too ambiguous and not strong enough. If they could credibly absolutely guarantee Marienberg's independence then Marienberg can drop their embargo and get on with making money secure in the knowledge that the Empire can't attack them. The issue is that they're currently too insecure and the Empire too untrustworthy.

In terms of protecting the Waystone network then having Marienberg join the accords and the Empire swearing of reconquest is the superior option. It's probably the superior option for the prosperity of the people of both nations and the wider world, as well as for the defence of the world against Chaos.
 
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[Q] No
-[Q] People dismissed her passionate thirty minute rant about why its the rite of any Magister to use elves as magic secret pinatas. Only Thorek seemed genuinely interested.
 
What are you talking about?
The quest tag "be gay do crime" is refers to a specific historical - and present -fact, so I was vagely trying to bring your attention to what I saw as a flaw/inconsistency in your wording.

My point: one can be a god of both protecting the innocent and crime.

Indeed, one can be a god of both protecting the innocent and crimes that result in harm to the innocent - multi-aspect gods espically so.

Edit: It's messy, but since when has cognitive dissonance ever stopped anyone? And as such, why couldn't spheres that are occasionally directly opposed to eachother not be under the domain of one god?
 
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The quest tag "be gay do crime" has specific historical roots, so I was vagely trying to bring your attention to what I saw as a flaw/inconsistency in your wording.

My point: one can be a god of both protecting the innocent and crime.

Indeed, one can be a god of both protecting the innocent and crimes that result in harm to the innocent - multi-aspect gods espically so.
What kind of historical roots?

You're right, but that negative aspect stil doesn't make me like the idea of Ranald on the treaty.
 
Yeah, the issue with Marienberg, as I understand it, is that the Empire wants to renege on the treaties it's signed essentially out of pure revanchism.

The best solution here is for the Empire to give up on reconquering Marienberg and for Marienberg to receive guarantees of its independence strong enough that it doesn't feel the need to play games to strengthen its own independent deterrence.

The problem with this is that the Empire doesn't want to give up its territorial ambitions and also, as the Nordland-Laurelorn issue demonstrates, has a poor record of treaty compliance with neighbours that aren't able to force them to at all times.

In many ways the problem with Ulthuan's guarantee is that it's too ambiguous and not strong enough. If they could credibly absolutely guarantee Marienberg's independence then Marienberg can drop their embargo and get on with making money secure in the knowledge that the Empire can't attack them. The issue is that they're currently too insecure and the Empire too untrustworthy.

In terms of protecting the Waystone network then having Marienberg join the accords and the Empire swearing of reconquest is the superior option. It's probably the superior option for the prosperity of the people of both nations and the wider world, as well as for the defence of the world against Chaos.

The best solution is for Marienburg to the re-anexed, an independent Marienburg does not in any way make the world safer, but it does serve as a distraction to said Empire from more important foes. Not to mention that it seems to be quite vulnerable to corruption what with their habit of making deals with the Norscans for protection and the recent canal snafu. Contrast if the city is retaken, no distraction, the Grey Order can be in charge of purging any cults and Mathilde certainly trusts them more than Baron What's-his-face Imitation Colleges. Not to mention that we no longer have to deal with the 'God-given' right of monopolists to monopolize.

In conclusion screw Marienburg, they are at least as indolent as Vlad in the face of the greater dangers of the setting. If we had the AP I would be voting to assassinate its leadership in preparation for an invasion.
 
In many ways the problem with Ulthuan's guarantee is that it's too ambiguous and not strong enough. If they could credibly absolutely guarantee Marienberg's independence then Marienberg can drop their embargo and get on with making money secure in the knowledge that the Empire can't attack them. The issue is that they're currently too insecure and the Empire too untrustworthy.
Pretty sure the reason for the threatened embargo is not because they're worried the Empire will attack them it's because the dwarven canal means the Marienberg merchants will make slightly less money and they see this as worth threatening the Empire over, safe in the knowledge that if the Empire tries anything then Ulthuan will back them up
 
I once read that Benjamin Franklin, the coolest of the US's founders, was banned from being the one to actually pen the US Constitution for fear that he would sneak jokes into it.

Well, they haven't cottoned onto Mathilde just yet - get those initials in there!
 
What kind of historical roots?

You're right, but that negative aspect stil doesn't make me like the idea of Ranald on the treaty.
I worded that poorly. The phrase itself don't have old roots, but it arises from the very long history - and present - of the criminalisation of queerness.

My point that I was making when I said it was: not all crime is bad.

And that's fair that you don't want Ranald on the treaty. I do. I think it'd be cool and amusing.

I think he's punk as all heck and this treaty can be seen as a form of community defence against chaos.
 
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Yeah, the issue with Marienberg, as I understand it, is that the Empire wants to renege on the treaties it's signed essentially out of pure revanchism.
The situation is much more ambiguous than that. Mareinberg has been engaged in effectively continuous economic warfare against the empire for hundreds of years, involving both incredibly abusive trade practices and the outright physical sabotage of any alternative Imperial port on the Sea of Claws. From the Imperial perspective, Marianburg is basically a treaty port of Ulthuan.

Also, to put it bluntly, even if the Empire was 100% in the wrong I'd still vote to support its interests in this instance. Mathilda is ultimately a subject of the Empire and I'd prefer to see things through that lens than be some sort of detached "objective" character.
 
The situation is much more ambiguous than that. Mareinberg has been engaged in effectively continuous economic warfare against the empire for hundreds of years, involving both incredibly abusive trade practices and the outright physical sabotage of any alternative Imperial port on the Sea of Claws. From the Imperial perspective, Marianburg is basically a treaty port of Ulthuan.

Also, to put it bluntly, even if the Empire was 100% in the wrong I'd still vote to support its interests in this instance. Mathilda is ultimately a subject of the Empire and I'd prefer to see things through that lens than be some sort of detached "objective" character.

Also we directly profit from screwing them over in the form of the EIC's bottom line. The best kind of profit, one that messes with monopolists. :V
 
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