I think that one thing we can get out of Ulthuan extra is a map of all nexuses in all territories, they should have it since they and the dwarfs are the ones who built the original and its not a deep magical secret, just an old map.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[jk] No
-[ ] Ranald is also watching these accords being made (and laughing).
I don't think we should actually object on this basis but I'm sad we haven't snuck in a reference to our God somewhere.
Besides he's been a lot more involved in this than Sigmar, and Sigmar's name got on the document.
-[ ] Ranald is also watching these accords being made (and laughing).
I don't think we should actually object on this basis but I'm sad we haven't snuck in a reference to our God somewhere.
Besides he's been a lot more involved in this than Sigmar, and Sigmar's name got on the document.
Doing so openly would be problematic, as every nation contributed two gods: the foremost god and the most applicable god. Breaking with that to bump off Sigmar or Verena would be very blatant and would make a lot of enemies. But if you can think of a sneaky way to get him in there, you absolutely can vote to do so.
This is just the nexuses. Anyone with a horse, Windsight, and a few months to burn can map every functioning nexus within any country they're able to enter. Too much magic passes through them for their location to be kept secret.
[jk] No
-[ ] Ranald is also watching these accords being made (and laughing).
I don't think we should actually object on this basis but I'm sad we haven't snuck in a reference to our God somewhere.
Besides he's been a lot more involved in this than Sigmar, and Sigmar's name got on the document.
To be fair he did help make that tributary, +20 on Baba's roll.
- Location
- United States of America
I think there is a bit of a problem with this line here.
The Accords have no enforcement power, that part is made very clear in later sections of the Accords, but this line is imperative. What happens if a signatory does not comply to provide the approximate location of Nexuses to the other signatories? Are there any consequences or repercussions? Can the signatories have a vote to remove them from the list of signers?
Better for it to follow the example of other items in the accords. Something like "All signatories to these accords commit to disclosing to all others..., as well as committing to promptly communicating to the others..."
Also, probably best to make it clear that they will be continually disclosing known nexuses. Until recently, the Empire had little idea about the nexuses, and future nations might not know either. Framing it this way provides a bit of grace for new signatories and current signatories in disclosing nexuses.
Another thing, while the accords have no enforcement provision, it might be best to have a line about removing signatories from the accords upon a vote by all other signatories. A new King, Emperor, or Tzar who breaks the accords but hides behind the treaty's protections could, conceivably, become a problem. Having a way to remove signatories, even if in a difficult and problematic way, would provide further incentives for future rulers to follow the accords, even if they don't care about the waystone network.
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fishsicles
ate a calculator to gain its power
- Location
- Alexander Horned Earth
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The main thing I would think of in addition to the existing accords is a provision to make the Waystone Network's components inviolate in war between signatories. No burning cities or wrecking canals if it would disrupt the flow of the network even incidentally. I don't think that anyone would do it per say, but it would put more pressure on dealing with rogue actors - and hell, it never hurts to introduce the concept of "this is a war crime" to a setting. It also takes some of the bite away from forced disclosure of Nexus locations and other things that might correlate with strategic information.
"Coercion or threat" as it stands could be defused by "things happen in war". There will always be loopholes but I'd rather not have one I could fit a Black Ark through.
"Coercion or threat" as it stands could be defused by "things happen in war". There will always be loopholes but I'd rather not have one I could fit a Black Ark through.
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Valarauko
Demon of Power
- Location
- Angband
The whole section but this sentence in particular is an interesting departure from previous interarticular commentary in that Mathilde's perspective is nowhere to be found, all to obscure exactly how she and everyone else reaction to the mention of the hidden isle.
Looks like someone is about to learn about the Project. Will Mathilde tell him herself, or will Thorek handle it?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Are there any conjunctive symbols that look like an X? Because having a symbol of Ranald linking all the pieces together would be very fitting.
- Location
- France
It's never been a secret. IIRC Mathilde was quite public about the reason she was leaving Belegar's service, and "working on ancient wonders from the Golden Age alongside a top runesmith" was considered a perfectly socially acceptable reason to resign as loremaster.
In theory, it's built on the assumption that disclosing has no downsides. Anyone that wants to know can find out anyway, and if you're saying 'hey buddy our nexus here has been seized by whatevers and we think they're messing with it' then it very easily segues into a discussion of any possible assistance said buddy can provide in getting it back. You don't have to enforce something if there's no reason not to do it. But if you think that reasoning won't always apply you can vote to tweak or rework it.
Thorek is theoretically attending this meeting on Thorgrim's behalf, so he'll share all the salient details with the High King.
Mathilde could try having a word with the scribe that ends up writing up the pretty official version.
It doesn't fit the meter. Every nation contributed two Gods, the chief god and their most relevant god.
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The other issue I see about coercion or threat is that it's not an objective judgement like diverting the flow would be.
From the perspective of downstream users of the magic, it's irrelevant if the people upstream cut off the flow in order to use it for their own magical infrastructure or whether they do so simply to cut them off. The end result is the same. Also, motives can be mixed or unclear. Someone can claim they're cutting off the flow to power magical infrastructure they have no real intention of paying for in order to extort the people downstream. We see this in the real world with damn construction. Governments don't come out and admit they're building them to pressure their neighbours even if they blatantly are, they always claim it's for irrigation or hydropower.
From the perspective of downstream users of the magic, it's irrelevant if the people upstream cut off the flow in order to use it for their own magical infrastructure or whether they do so simply to cut them off. The end result is the same. Also, motives can be mixed or unclear. Someone can claim they're cutting off the flow to power magical infrastructure they have no real intention of paying for in order to extort the people downstream. We see this in the real world with damn construction. Governments don't come out and admit they're building them to pressure their neighbours even if they blatantly are, they always claim it's for irrigation or hydropower.
Well, we just need to get someone to sign their name with an X...
Phew. Glad that Thorek didn't take over the discussion. That could have been awkward.
I like it! It has no teeth, but it was never going to. This isn't the sort of document that stands up to the signatories trying to subvert it. It has the right ethos and cutting off the Marianburg waystone blackmail is a nice cherry on top.
I like it! It has no teeth, but it was never going to. This isn't the sort of document that stands up to the signatories trying to subvert it. It has the right ethos and cutting off the Marianburg waystone blackmail is a nice cherry on top.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Good luck getting Loec to displace Hoeth there.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
So here is a question, how does this treaty influence plans to bring the Brettonians into the project?
Ranald and Haletha as Gods of the Hedgewise? And if we do that, we might want to also add the Earth Mother and the Architect guy from the Lights, so we get a full representation of the petty traditions aiding the project.
Yeah, realistically this is about encouraging willing buy-in, not a cudgel to enforce compliance. So there's really only so much you can actually do with it. Seems basically fine for what it is to me.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Aye, it's a bit of an agreement to sign to diplomatically play nice with each other, and something to push on the pain of economic sanctions.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They'd have to have "The Lady and The Lady"
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I mean, The Lady and Shallya or The Lady and Verena would work.
They'd probably just have Shallya as the second god.