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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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We could take this opportunity to formalise the Waystone Project as a permanent institution, rather than an ad-hoc one. Add language for signatories to commit representatives to a joint research/development organisation that will continue to look for ways to improve the network going forward.

Currently, if Mathilde dies, the whole thing falls apart. That is a pretty critical weakness.

Even with no enforcement mechanism, a written treaty has weight that might carry things on even if we end up gutted on the end of a Druchii blade next year while on Elfcation. And this way even when Mathilde moves on, even if the individuals we gathered return home, the polities involved are committed to sending somebody to talk to each other.
 
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I may have misunderstood the network topology, but as I understand it, does Marienberg actually have the ability to block the passage of energy from the Old World?

My understanding is that one of the two of the Reikland and Marienberg nexuses need to be functioning. If Marienberg repurposes their nexus the Empire can just return the Reikland nexus to its original purpose.

What, I think, Marienberg can threaten isn't the safety of the world but the wealth of the Reikland, which is something that other people, including the rest of the Empire of Marienberg isn't being a dick about tariffs, is likely to care a lot less about.

If we share a map of the Empire's nexuses the question of what's being done with the Reikland nexus that stops it being used to bypass Marienberg would be obvious.

Another thought. Ulthuan was actually pretty kind to the Empire here. Rather than go to all the effort to repair the Marienberg nexus they could presumably have just sent one of the archmages who was then living nearby to the Reikland nexus and switched it back to its proper functioning. No one in the Empire would have had a clue what was causing the subsequent reduction in fertility. In some ways I'm surprised they didn't do this anyway to improve the network's redundancy.
 
Godwinson said:
Are there any conjunctive symbols that look like an X? Because having a symbol of Ranald linking all the pieces together would be very fitting.
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I do like the idea of Ranald never being overtly mentioned. Not because He wasn't there, but because it's not His style.

If it was possible have sly references to gambling, creatures that prowl the night, deception, and protection, that might also be a way to invoke Ranald without being obvious about it, but I think I like the crosshatches just as much or better.
 
Gavin Prince said:
We could take this opportunity to formalise the Waystone Project as a permanent institution, rather than an ad-hoc one. Add language for signatories to commit representatives to a joint research/development organisation that will continue to look for ways to improve the network going forward.

Currently, if Mathilde dies, the whole thing falls apart. That is a pretty critical weakness.

Even with no enforcement mechanism, a written treaty has weight that might carry things on even if we end up gutted on the end of a Druchii blade next year while on Elfcation. And this way even when Mathilde moves on, even if the individuals we gathered return home, the polities involved are committed to sending somebody to talk to each other.
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That would involve arguments about leadership and hospitality—unless we have a rotating leadership between the signatories, so the colleges are the leaders for X years, then the Dwarves, then the Eonir etc. Probably a lot of arguing over term length and order, however. No one wants to wait 20 years for it to be their turn.
 
Alratan said:
The other issue I see about coercion or threat is that it's not an objective judgement like diverting the flow would be.

From the perspective of downstream users of the magic, it's irrelevant if the people upstream cut off the flow in order to use it for their own magical infrastructure or whether they do so simply to cut them off. The end result is the same. Also, motives can be mixed or unclear. Someone can claim they're cutting off the flow to power magical infrastructure they have no real intention of paying for in order to extort the people downstream. We see this in the real world with damn construction. Governments don't come out and admit they're building them to pressure their neighbours even if they blatantly are, they always claim it's for irrigation or hydropower.
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Any discussion of limiting magical infrastructure is going to wind up being an endless political football that can't be resolved in this meeting, and frankly I highly doubt anyone will commit to NOT building magical infrastructure they feel they need.

The primary function of the Waystones is to ensure chaos 'pollution' doesn't threaten the world, not to supply magical power, and the current wording does ensure that anyone trying to play silly buggers by damming up the flow or increasing it to dump chaos on their political opponents is jumped on by the signatories. That's what is needed at this time.
 
Alratan said:
My understanding is that one of the two of the Reikland and Marienberg nexuses need to be functioning. If Marienberg repurposes their nexus the Empire can just return the Reikland nexus to its original purpose.
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Point of order, no one outside the empire knows we can turn that so as far as anyone not Mathilde at this table is concerned it would be a threat to douse the whole of the Old World in Chaos. Even if we tell them we found ruins it's not like we have to explain the shunt and what that meant for the Raikland.
 
A real world equivalent would have multiple appendixes including definitions. I don't think they'd add much of value here.

I think Boney did a good job pointing out the political ramifications and compromises behind each term. Even if Boney hadn't, without any enforcement mechanism I'm not going to get fussed about the exact wording.

Maybe a note somewhere that the primary purpose of the Waystones nexus is to reduce ambient magic or Dhar? Or otherwise clarify "proper operation" in section 4? What Ulthuan thinks the "proper operation" is might prove to be somewhat revelatory.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I do like the idea of Ranald never being overtly mentioned. Not because He wasn't there, but because it's not His style.

If it was possible have sly references to gambling, creatures that prowl the night, deception, and protection, that might also be a way to invoke Ranald without being obvious about it, but I think I like the crosshatches just as much or better.
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That rather assumes that the other signatories don't know what Ranald's symbol is and wouldn't immediately pounce on this to have the symbology of a third god of their own culture added.
drake_azathoth said:
Any discussion of limiting magical infrastructure is going to wind up being an endless political football that can't be resolved in this meeting, and frankly I highly doubt anyone will commit to NOT building magical infrastructure they feel they need.

The primary function of the Waystones is to ensure chaos 'pollution' doesn't threaten the world, not to supply magical power, and the current wording does ensure that anyone trying to play silly buggers by damming up the flow or increasing it to dump chaos on their political opponents is jumped on by the signatories. That's what is needed at this time.
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My point is that no one needs to say they're blocking the flow for that reason when they can just claim that they're doing it in order to build magical infrastructure.

DragonParadox said:
Point of order, no one outside the empire knows we can turn that so as far as anyone not Mathilde at this table is concerned it would be a threat to douse the whole of the Old World in Chaos. Even if we tell them we found ruins it's not like we have to explain the shunt and what that meant for the Raikland.
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Given how easy apparently is for anyone to find a nexus, I'd be very surprised if the elven archmages who founded the College didn't take a look at the one on their doorstep. Particularly as Teclis seems to have been messing around with the Waystone network when he built the Colleges.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
That would involve arguments about leadership and hospitality—unless we have a rotating leadership between the signatories, so the colleges are the leaders for X years, then the Dwarves, then the Eonir etc. Probably a lot of arguing over term length and order, however. No one wants to wait 20 years for it to be their turn.
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And we can let that arguing happen offscreen. While the wording would need to be nailed down within the treaty, I don't think we as the readership particularly care about the nitty-gritty details being spelled out in the update, so long as we're assured it's in there somewhere.
 
Alratan said:
I may have misunderstood the network topology, but as I understand it, does Marienberg actually have the ability to block the passage of energy from the Old World?

My understanding is that one of the two of the Reikland and Marienberg nexuses need to be functioning. If Marienberg repurposes their nexus the Empire can just return the Reikland nexus to its original purpose.
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That's more in the realm of 'something that could theoretically be done if we investigate how this place works deeply enough' than it is 'you pull this lever here'. Everyone involved would rather not have to.

AlexScribler said:
A real world equivalent would have multiple appendixes including definitions. I don't think they'd add much of value here.

I think Boney did a good job pointing out the political ramifications and compromises behind each term. Even if Boney hadn't, without any enforcement mechanism I'm not going to get fussed about the exact wording.

Maybe a note somewhere that the primary purpose of the Waystones nexus is to reduce ambient magic or Dhar? Or otherwise clarify "proper operation" in section 4? What Ulthuan thinks the "proper operation" is might prove to be somewhat revelatory.
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Legalism isn't a thing yet. Someone trying to play games with reinterpreting the exact wording of an agreement doesn't get you anywhere because everyone knows what was actually meant.
 
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Alratan said:
I may have misunderstood the network topology, but as I understand it, does Marienberg actually have the ability to block the passage of energy from the Old World?

My understanding is that one of the two of the Reikland and Marienberg nexuses need to be functioning. If Marienberg repurposes their nexus the Empire can just return the Reikland nexus to its original purpose.

What, I think, Marienberg can threaten isn't the safety of the world but the wealth of the Reikland, which is something that other people, including the rest of the Empire of Marienberg isn't being a dick about tariffs, is likely to care a lot less about.

If we share a map of the Empire's nexuses the question of what's being done with the Reikland nexus that stops it being used to bypass Marienberg would be obvious.

Another thought. Ulthuan was actually pretty kind to the Empire here. Rather than go to all the effort to repair the Marienberg nexus they could presumably have just sent one of the archmages who was then living nearby to the Reikland nexus and switched it back to its proper functioning. No one in the Empire would have had a clue what was causing the subsequent reduction in fertility. In some ways I'm surprised they didn't do this anyway to improve the network's redundancy.
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It was completely overgrown and blocked off by the time Mathilde got there and probably hadn't been touched since the Belthani. It's entirely possible that Ulthuan doesn't think it's functioning anymore.

Certainly there's no energy coming in, given that it's serving an entirely different purpose.
 
Oh hey this was a lovely surprise

Eltharion's gaffe with baba niedzwenka was cackle inducing, but my favourite part was reading through the accords wording. I would have been perfectly happy with simply having the words of the accord as written and gamely attempted to figure out what they meant and what the implications were, but the breakdown provided was hugely helpful, especially giving insight into who in particular was pushing for particular parts of the accords.

In retrospect honestly this story has had a bewildering array of, shall we say genres? Of topics covered, from military grand strategy to cutting edge magical research to high society soirées and now to hammering out freshly made historical agreements between partner nations. Hats off to you Boney for making this rollercoaster engaging in all its areas of focus.
 
Formalising the Waystone Project would, as a knock-on effect, commit Ulthuan to sending somebody to get involved in addition to handing over the passwords. Not necessarily anyone good, if they want to play silly buggers and send their equivalent of Zlata, but it would guarantee us an Asur face to talk to in Laurelorn.
 
Alratan said:
Given how easy apparently is for anyone to find a nexus, I'd be very surprised if the elven archmages who founded the College didn't take a look at the one on their doorstep. Particularly as Teclis seems to have been messing around with the Waystone network when he built the Colleges
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Active nexuses are easy to find- just follow the stream of magic.

The Reikland nexus hasn't been active in probably 3,000 years.
 
i see that the mistrust towards marienburg is growing, good, the dominos are falling and soon we will have the consent of all involved parties to fuck them over.
 
Yessss, an update!

Boney said:
"One wide enough for Wolfships to pass through?" Boris asks shrewdly, and you nod. "Hmm. It would be good to have a river route from here to Praag and Erengrad. It would not have been the first priority, but it would serve to bring the land together more, make the Tzar a little less far away." He tilts his head as he thinks, his eyes roaming the walls. "It would have to be from the Mazhorod. There have been plans made for canals in the area - minor ones to bypass the shallow waters of the ford. That would provide a starting point to get together the expertise and equipment, then more manpower can be brought in to branch the greater canal off of it..." He looks to you again and nods. "It will be done. May it bring Kislev and the Empire closer together, as we were during the time of Alexis and Magnus."
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I love his immediate reaction showcasing that he really deserves this position. I don't think Vladimir would've been as quick to grasp the fine points and figure out the geographical implications on the fly, nor as interested in them, nor as agreeable about the prospect of closer ties. Boris is genuinely a great Tzar.

Boney said:
He smiles. "The wealth of Ulthuan is legendary. I can think of many ways Kislev could be convinced."

Yes, everyone else reacted that way at first too.
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pfffft, too real :V

Boney said:
"Ah," he says, giving her an evaluating look. "You must be the one responsible for keeping at bay the 'Sea Witch' that the Cothiquans speak of."

There's a collective wince from everyone at the table except Niedzwenka, whose smile only widens. "That is one of my greatest claims to notoriety," she says cheerfully.
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Best. Koldunja. Ever.

Boney said:
1. It is indisputable that the Great Vortex at the heart of Ulthuan is the sole creation, possession, and responsibility of the Asur of Ulthuan, as led by the rightful and unburned Phoenix Kings.
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Aha, nice. On the one hand, the part about the Vortex belonging to Ulthuan and being their responsibility is totally true. On the other hand, they just attached a whole international cooperation document to a clause legitimising their preferred Phoenix King, which, while he's absolutely better than Malekith (low bar to clear), is also such fun to watch.

Boney said:
4. No signatory to these accords will threaten or perform any interference with the proper operation of the Waystone Network as a means of coercion or act of sabotage upon another signatory. Such an act is detrimental to the entire world and benefits only the forces of Chaos.
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I just let out a breath I didn't realize I was holding. God, yes, please enshrine the "no brinkmanship games" in the very foundations of the agreement.

Seconding the notion of "what about active war" and "what about magical megaweapons", tho I don't know if those would be too exact and complicated to put on paper even as guidelines. Hopefully someone will put together good words to either fit on the accords or explain why this doesn't need to go on the accords.
 
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Wonder if we could find some ways to include the hedgewise in the treaty, just to work towards legitimising them. Figure they are covered by magical traditions of the empire, but maybe we could find some way to spell it out.
 
Mopman43 said:
It was completely overgrown and blocked off by the time Mathilde got there and probably hadn't been touched since the Belthani. It's entirely possible that Ulthuan doesn't think it's functioning anymore.

Certainly there's no energy coming in, given that it's serving an entirely different purpose.
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It's been ninja-Ed by Boney, but I'd be exceptionally surprised if the elves diebmt check it out. The Marienberg nexus was destroyed and would be costly and probably difficult to replace. They has a pair of archmages basically on the doorstep of the Reikland nexus and they know exactly where it was. Given how fast movers and shakers can get around, as demonstrated by Mathilde, it seems very unlikely that one of them dien't spend a day checking out the nexus to see what the options were before deciding to go ahead with the repairs to the Marienberg nexus.

Indeed, I'd be surprised if Teclis and Finreir didn't make a general survey of the Empire's Waystone network while they were there, given that they apparently did things like travel around using their magical senses to look for potential recruits, which would be good cover for such a survey.

And if an archmage wanted to, he could likely have flown in and left no trace. They almost certainly knows the spells that allow that.
 
Alratan said:
Given how easy apparently is for anyone to find a nexus, I'd be very surprised if the elven archmages who founded the College didn't take a look at the one on their doorstep. Particularly as Teclis seems to have been messing around with the Waystone network when he built the Colleges.
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Teclis was rather busy, he did not have several months to go traipsing across the empire and we found the place still choked with vegetation from when the Belthani had abandoned it.
 
Given the importance of rivers in the movement of waystone energy in the future, it might make sense to include some verbiage there. It would also be a good way to slip in a poison pill for Marianburg if we're interested in that. Beyond the poison pill of them joining the treaty would require the Empire to agree.
 
MonkeyTypewriter said:
Given the importance of rivers in the movement of waystone energy in the future, it might make sense to include some verbiage there. It would also be a good way to slip in a poison pill for Marianburg if we're interested in that. Beyond the poison pill of them joining the treaty would require the Empire to agree.
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Now that we have the elves they have gone back to not important. The bare minimum they will give us is the code phrases.
 
henkalv said:
Wonder if we could find some ways to include the hedgewise in the treaty, just to work towards legitimising them. Figure they are covered by magical traditions of the empire, but maybe we could find some way to spell it out.
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It's possible, but adding just them would give them greater prominence the Colleges and the Ice Witches. The accords would need to be expanded to include mentions of all the composite groups for that to be done smoothly.
 
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