Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I thought of another possible use of the vlag boon; street lights.
My understanding is that, until the late modern period, no citydweller left their home at night for fear of crime. In the wh world there are far greater dangers than criminals, who enjoy having up to half the day to do their business in limited visibility.
Installing simple lightening runes on the streets could significantly hinder cults, vampires, skaven and common thugs from passing unnoticed, and decrease the safety of citizens.
It would likely be an enormous amount of runes to even fill altdorf, and they would have to be able to be installed in a way where noone could steal or disable them easily, but i think it might be a worth it.
Thoughts?
 
I thought of another possible use of the vlag boon; street lights.
My understanding is that, until the late modern period, no citydweller left their home at night for fear of crime. In the wh world there are far greater dangers than criminals, who enjoy having up to half the day to do their business in limited visibility.
Installing simple lightening runes on the streets could significantly hinder cults, vampires, skaven and common thugs from passing unnoticed, and decrease the safety of citizens.
It would likely be an enormous amount of runes to even fill altdorf, and they would have to be able to be installed in a way where noone could steal or disable them easily, but i think it might be a worth it.
Thoughts?
Feels a bit frivolous to me? Like it's a neat idea but I'd feel bad for the vlag that the boon we ask for for saving their souls from damnation is... Street lighting... In a city we don't even live.
 
I thought of another possible use of the vlag boon; street lights.
My understanding is that, until the late modern period, no citydweller left their home at night for fear of crime. In the wh world there are far greater dangers than criminals, who enjoy having up to half the day to do their business in limited visibility.
Installing simple lightening runes on the streets could significantly hinder cults, vampires, skaven and common thugs from passing unnoticed, and decrease the safety of citizens.
It would likely be an enormous amount of runes to even fill altdorf, and they would have to be able to be installed in a way where noone could steal or disable them easily, but i think it might be a worth it.
Thoughts?
While that is true, I don't know that it's something Mathilde would think of or really want. Shadowmancers kinda thrive in the reality of a world without constant light everywhere.

I think you're on the right track that a lot of minor enchantments is what we want, but we may be better off asking for enough somewhat runed equipment to outfit a small army. Though truthfully that also feels like a waste. Maybe we could get them to rune a steam tank? Or call in Vlag's assistance with retaking one of the nexuses in the Empire?

We might be better holding onto it for now and waiting until we're working on large waystone network powered infrastructure projects (if we decide to do that) than burning it now on something that doesn't really benefit us very much and puts a lot of very uncomfortable dwarves in a very public place and brings the Runesmith conflict to the forefront.
 
Feels a bit frivolous to me? Like it's a neat idea but I'd feel bad for the vlag that the boon we ask for for saving their souls from damnation is... Street lighting... In a city we don't even live.

I really have no idea what the ultimate effect might be, so i will not argue that it will somehow save the world. I havent seen if anyone has compiled the other ideas for the boon so i wont claim this idea is best either.
Still, i would argue that i could be a worthy investment. I have a feeling that street lights really could be massively gamechanging for all living there, despite its possible lack of flashiness to modern readers.
The thought was also inspired by reading the wonderful altdorf sewer watch quest, where investigate all manner of corruption in the altdorf nights might have led me to overestimate the median amount of skullduggery going on.
 
If string is valuable enough that it's not viable to do infrastructure with it, well, I'm pretty sure magical or runed items far exceed that value threshold.
The problem with string is that it's out in the wilderness where nobody can police them. In a city it turns into a more normal crime-dealing-with-problem.

Which is not to say they never get stolen, but the balance of attrition is far closer to "worth it" than the string.
 
If you want street lighting, just draw out some Azyr from a nearby waystone and channel it into the literal lightbulb Mathilde and Adela invented.
Or ... You know... Just have apprentices enchant a bunch of light cantrips. Iirc that on is easy enough and having the colleges do public services like that makes for good PR.
Honestly, I think it's more likely that, between how rare human wizards are and how humans generally prefer not to rely on magic unless necessary, literal mundane lightbulbs will be made before someone gets around to convincing the Celestials to make Azyr-bulbs.

Like, I think Boney's previously said that while wizards could just make Move enchantments all day every day to make perpetual-motion machines for mills and stuff, they don't because of a variety of reasons.
 
According to 2e's Night's Dark Masters, a dwarf once made an orrery capable of tracking Morrsleib's erratic orbit.


I'm a bit torn on it, because on the other hand, if it is possible to mundanely track Morrsleib, and it's "just" a really erratic orbit like what Glau suggests, it'd probably be a dwarf who'd be capable of making such an orrery.

But this assumes that, asides from how Boney might not want Morrsleib to be mundanely possible to track in the first place for purposes of the quest, it would take a very eccentric Dwarf to be knowledgeable enough in astronomy to make it in the first place.

The darkness-creating ability is weird, too, and doesn't mention its origin. It seems unlikely that it accomplishes this via Runes, so the only other possibility in-quest is that the Celestials enchanted it to better appreciate the heavens somehow. It'd be really odd, given that Azyr reveals and guides and is not linked to obscuring things, but it does say that it does help observe the stars, so it's not complete darkness, merely that which obscures the sun.
While I don't think anything in 2e provides an explanation, 4e has adventure hooks that I think could retroactively serve as clues.

Altdorf - Crown of the Empire, page 164
Sapherian Loremasters understand the Old Ones' geomantic web: an ancient gridwork of magical ley lines that stabilises planetary weather, orbit, and rotation. Altdorf is a major nexus point on the web. High Elf adventurers serve the embassy as ley line restoration agents in remote parts of the Empire. This usually involves righting toppled waystones or performing maintenance rituals.
Lustria, page 108
A rare celestial event has occurred; an eclipse of the sun aligned perfectly with the horns mounted atop the Temple of the Eclipse, while the Chaos Moon was still visible in the sky. At this moment, the Shrines of Tepok lit up, casting dancing lights into the darkened sky. Pure Azyr flooded outwards, and everyone from the seers of Saphery to the Runesmiths of the Karaz Ankor felt its presence.
Monuments of the Reikland, page 15
Beltran's orrery was a masterpiece which proved invaluable in studying the stars. Most interesting was the tiny model of Morrsleib, which was made from real warpstone. While this improved the accuracy of the Astromancer's research, it also corrupted his work and gave him a small mutation — two fingers of his right hand ended in suckers.
4e takes place about 10 years before 2e, so could be that this celestial event was felt by Algrund, who later went on to make his orbit-predicting orrery. If runesmiths have geomantic lore, whether inherited from the Old Ones or shared by the elves when making the waystone network, that'd be relevant.

However, if all it took was Azyr and Geomantic Web knowledge, you'd think the lizardmen would've figured it out by now, but Lizardmen 8e page 23 says they haven't. Maybe lizardman minds aren't built for it, maybe runelore is needed, maybe Algrund's the Fozzrik of orrery-builders, maybe Algrund was simply more skilled at using warpstone than Alaric.
 
Or Morrslieb thought it would be funny to pretend to be predictable for this one guy.
Given that it can be full in one place while not being in the sky at all a couple miles away I wouldn't assume it has an actual orbit and isn't just in a
Schrodinger's Orbit where it is everywhere and nowhere in the sky at once.
 
The problem with string is that it's out in the wilderness where nobody can police them. In a city it turns into a more normal crime-dealing-with-problem.

Which is not to say they never get stolen, but the balance of attrition is far closer to "worth it" than the string.

It's explicitly not (only) the wilderness that's the problem:

"Some form of aqueduct for magic," Thorek suggests. "Needn't even be that large. Rope or wire, perhaps."

"I suspect unattended rope or wire would have a habit of disappearing entirely overnight," you reply.

Thorek frowns. "In areas where Grobi and the like lurk, aye, but what of more civilized areas?"

"When rope is a denga a yard?" Zlata says. "It might be safer with the Grobi."

"Would manlings really dismantle the Waystone network for free string?" Thorek asks, disbelieving.

"Yes," is the instant response from everyone else.

Keep in mind that the Empire consists of pockets of civilization in the middle of untamed wilderness. So my read on 'more civilized areas' would generally mean cities, towns, and their immediate surroundings.

Another way to frame it would be that you're leaving sacks of gold all across Altdorf. How long would those sacks of gold stay where you put them?
 
So is going to the toilet without a cellphone.
Existing afterlife completely changes things.
More like moving to Australia before the invention of the telephone.
Only if something goes horribly wrong.
Like having a heart attack at the toilet.
Dying to something that makes your soul unavailable to Morr (or to whoever your family favors) isn't that extremely rare. Also, my understanding of Morr's afterlife was that it's not at all like living a peaceful communal life in a safe place and more like an endless dreamscape heavily featuring garden-like environments.
 
On the subject of manlings stripping the waystones for parts, was thinking about the vulnerability of boat-stones. Normal waystones have the inherent advantage of being impossible to steal because they're a) too large to move without a small army and b) don't actually work when removed from their leyline. They're fixed points you have to capture and hold. But people steal boats, or steal from boats, all the time, and river piracy is widespread enough even within the Empire's borders that the EIC needs its own navy and Marienburg funded pirates as a pressure tactic during the whole canal thing.

If we design the waystone so spirits can access the magic within them to ferry it elsewhere, we have to actually grapple with questions like "what is the difference between a nature spirit and an undead spirit or a demon," because unless the waystone itself can differentiate then it would be a very tempting target for necromancers and cultists. There's also plenty of the normal kind of spirits that are just nasty themselves, or wouldn't actually care if they work for good or evil purposes.

The obvious first solution would be to... biometrically? lock the waystone to a specific spirit, but that obviously limits their ability to be redeployed anywhere else but that one spirit's body of water, which kinda defeats the point of making them mobile.
 
On the subject of manlings stripping the waystones for parts, was thinking about the vulnerability of boat-stones. Normal waystones have the inherent advantage of being impossible to steal because they're a) too large to move without a small army and b) don't actually work when removed from their leyline. They're fixed points you have to capture and hold. But people steal boats, or steal from boats, all the time, and river piracy is widespread enough even within the Empire's borders that the EIC needs its own navy and Marienburg funded pirates as a pressure tactic during the whole canal thing.

If we design the waystone so spirits can access the magic within them to ferry it elsewhere, we have to actually grapple with questions like "what is the difference between a nature spirit and an undead spirit or a demon," because unless the waystone itself can differentiate then it would be a very tempting target for necromancers and cultists. There's also plenty of the normal kind of spirits that are just nasty themselves, or wouldn't actually care if they work for good or evil purposes.

The obvious first solution would be to... biometrically? lock the waystone to a specific spirit, but that obviously limits their ability to be redeployed anywhere else but that one spirit's body of water, which kinda defeats the point of making them mobile.
I always imagined it would already be inherently locked "biometrically", spirit transmission relies on making a deal with an individual spirit or the river and if you sailed up a river with a spirit you don't have a prearranged deal with the spirit will do jack for you until that deal is made. That said in order to make it work for multiple river spirits you'd presumably need a mechanism to "reprogram" the Waystone to interact with each of these spirits, meaning there's still a threat of it being hijacked and reprogrammed to send the magic to a river spirit willing to cooperate with a necromancer/cultist or send the magic to a non-river spirit of the hijacker's choosing, the only way I can see to avoid this completely is to have the list of acceptable interactable spirits be "hardwired" during the Waystone's creation but that would mean if future deals are made with new river spirits in the future it would be useless for taking advantage of those deals since it wouldn't be able to interact with any spirit not already on its hardcoded whitelist of acceptable spirits. One possible compromise solution would be to lock the reprogramming behind a password like how there's a magical password for adding new leyline Waystones to the network but we would have to keep that password a secret at all costs, if it gets out the password system would be useless.
 
You know, the We's problems with becoming civilized enough that The Talking Beast doesn't work?

Do you think a Hysh-based spell (as the We are now 'Civilized') could resolve the issue?
 
You know, the We's problems with becoming civilized enough that The Talking Beast doesn't work?

Do you think a Hysh-based spell (as the We are now 'Civilized') could resolve the issue?
A Hysh or Chamon based spell could solve the issue, the problem is I don't think anyone has invented one like the Talking Beast because it's almost always easier to learn their language or teach them your language or use an intermediary translator rather than inventing a whole new translation spell that would involve potentially dangerous mind magic. Unfortunately no one foresaw the possibility of needing to communicate with an entity without the biological equipment like vocal cords necessary for speech but was nonetheless civilized like the We.
 
Can't they at least understand spoken Reikspiel, and write it out? Or does that need the spell as well?

I'm imagining Weaver-Book-Nest-Keepers lowering HUSH! chalkboards in front of noisy patrons via silk threads, while Hunter-Book-No-Take-Only-Adders chitter from the shadows.

Or just get Mathilde, Egrimm, Eike, Kas and Adela to invent (first the keyboard) then the Speak-n-Spell? :V
 
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They can at least understand spoken Reikspiel, and write it out. Cue Weaver-Book-Nest-Keepers lowering HUSH! chalkboards in front of noisy patrons via silk threads, while Hunter-Book-No-Take-Only-Adders chitter from the shadows.

Or just get Mathilde, Egrimm, Eike and Adela to invent (first the keyboard) then the Speak-n-Spell? :V
I have actually given the matter some thought a while ago and here's the possible solutions I came up with:
On the subject of the We I've been thinking about some alternative possibilities for communication in the event of the Talking Beast spell failing. Some of my current ideas are:

1. Writing. Just use a notepad and a pencil.​

2. A speaking voice dog. A dog (or other animal) with The Talking Beast who can listen to what the We is saying and repeating it in another language. However this probably won't work, it's been noted that The Talking Beast can only be used to make an animal speak a language that the caster knows, which is why the We can only speak Reikspiel and not Khazalid, the Wizard who made the enchantment only knew Riekspiel. It might be possible to work around this by giving the We an item enchanted with Master's Voice to compel the speaking voice dog to say certain things even if it doesn't directly understand the We. This is however complicated and probably inferior to the other solutions.​

3. Illusion. Give the We an item enchanted with Illusion that can be used to make any speech sounds they need. Problem, would require either a way to interface with the We's mind or have manual controls which would be very complicated given how many possible phonemes there are, would probably need something like a stenographers keyboard attached to it.​

4. Human interpreters. Create a body/sign language that allows for the We to communicate words and concepts solely through body movement and have a staff of human (or humanoid) librarians who are trained to interpret that language and act as translators to others who don't know the We's nonverbal language. Would be a good way of including Verenan librarians into KAU, long-term they'll become inferior to the immortal We but having a justification for keeping them around even if they are otherwise redundant would make the Verenans happier since they get to feel included.​

5. Birbs. There's a spell in the Celestial spellbook called Birdspeak which allows you to talk to birds. Unlike The Talking Beast it is not cast on an animal, it's cast on your self hopefully meaning it doesn't rely on the caster's understanding of a language to work and instead simply makes it so the statement that the target can speak to birds is axiomatically true, in the same way Invisibility doesn't bend light around you or make you transparent, it makes you invisible because magic says so and reality knows better than to pick a fight with magic. An additional casting of The Talking Beast could allow any bird to act as a translator for the We but an even simpler solution is to skip that part and use birds who already have the natural ability to talk as translators. The most well known talking birds are parrots but there are others such as mynas, starlings, mockingbirds, lyrebirds, and plenty of corvids including crows, ravens, magpies, jays, jackdaws, and a familiar friend, choughs. A library filled with talking birds does have a nice fantasy vibe in my opinion and this option is probably my favorite. If we want the Verenans to still feel useful they can be subordinate librarians to the We even if they are completely redundant as actual librarians and their only actual use would be to deliver books to the reading rooms for those too arachnophobic to enter the library itself.​
To anyone reading this feel free to add your own suggestions, I'm completely aware that my mind is not capable of thinking every possible type of thought and there may be solutions I'm overlooking.
 
Can't they at least understand spoken Reikspiel, and write it out? Or does that need the spell as well?
We assigned Max to that on T20, and he succeeded.
It's slow going, but Maximilian sticks to it and as weeks pass the We grow to understand what he's saying and develop an understanding of writing. On top of that they begin to understand the concept and then the language of spoken speech, and begin to develop a basic understanding of spoken Reikspiel, not just from Maximilian but by conversations amongst themselves using the circlet. They're still completely incapable of speaking without magical assistance, their mouthparts being completely unsuited to the task, but with an adequate supply of chalk and a convenient wall to write on, they're able to make themselves understood when they feel the need. The Dwarves ensure someone fluent in the language is on the nearby fortifications at all times, and slowly begin to grow accustomed to their comings and goings, possibly helped by how often they return with a paralyzed and bound Skaven hanging from their pedipalps.
So this is basically a solved problem -- there's only one item of Talking Beast, after all, so communication with the We without its aid has come up a bunch.
 
We assigned Max to that on T20, and he succeeded.

So this is basically a solved problem -- there's only one item of Talking Beast, after all, so communication with the We without its aid has come up a bunch.
The problem of the We understanding spoken speech and being able to communicate through written writing is a solved problem but the problem of allowing them to communicate through spoken speech like using the Talking Beast is an unsolved problem if the spell stops working, not a critically necessary unsolved problem but it would be nice to have and make conversations easier, just because a problem doesn't need to be solved that doesn't mean we shouldn't put some effort towards solving it if it's a survivable but sufficiently inconvenient problem.
 
The Talking Beast: Gives an animal the gift of speech for several minutes, or lets you speak while transformed if you follow this spell with Form of the [Animal].
Well, if Ghur has a bunch of spells to transform you into animals that the Talking Beast is explicitly supposed to work with them it seems like the simplest solution would be to commission an artifact that lets the We transform into X form and then apply the Talking Beast?

If we have a glut of CF we could even throw some at the Ambers to get them to try to make a 'transform into Giant Spider/We' spell that works with this.
 
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Well, if Ghur has a bunch of spells to transform you into animals that the Talking Beast is explicitly supposed to work with them it seems like the simplest solution would be to commission an artifact that lets the We transform into X form and then apply the Talking Beast?

If we have a glut of CF we could even throw some at the Ambers to get them to make a 'transform into Giant Spider/We' spell that works with this.
The individual We bodies seem to communicate through infrasonic or (more likely) ultrasonic sonic frequencies to form a gestalt mind and soul, transforming one part of them into something that couldn't communicate through sonic frequencies seems likely to result in the We losing contact with that part of them and that part of them dropping below the intelligence threshold needed to be considered independently sapient. Turning a non-We into a We might be better in that it might allow direct communication with the We but unless everyone who wants to directly talk to the We is willing to be turned into a giant spider that seems like a non-starter.
 
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