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The grey college is the only one who actively teaches it to almost everyone for cyphers but you can learn the language just fine, and it would not surprise me if all colleges and quite a few universities have people who can read and write in it for studies.
And the colleges alone should have a decent demand for books of the Asur because their whole system is partially based on what one elf could cram into their head in 20 years while fighting a war. So learning what else the elf's have that could help would be quite tempting.

I strongly doubt that the high elves would sell books on magic as it's so dangerous for them to do so.

And I doubt any of the Universities would have many Eltharin speakers. They'd need to be taught by the few Magisters who knew it and they've better things to do.
 
No?

If the people in question were merchants with access to and contacts in Laurelorn, sure, they could get more money if they went and did it themselves.

I feel pretty confident that most people with Ithilmar won't be that.
Not especially, I don't think. As Candesce noted, if the people who are selling to us were in a position to sell directly to Laurelorn, they might be able to get more - though they might not unless they're also in a position to buy up Ithilimar in bulk like the EIC is doing - but that's more or less just how trading works. You buy things that are not considered particularly valuable in one place, and you sell them somewhere that they are highly valued.
They're not in a position to sell directly to Laurelorn, sure, but if they knew the demand actually existed a lot of them would probably hold out on the bet that that other merchants will eventually also be able to sell in Laurelorn and buy at prices that still aren't directly what they'll be in Laurelorn, but aren't "firesale" relative to the money that stands to be made on it.
 
I'm going to point out that part of the Grand University of Nuln's specialization is literature, so I expect that if we copy from there, the We will suddenly have a wide array of fiction available to them.

That said, I think they will first need to have the concept of recreational fiction explained to them. Storytelling is probably extremely foreign to them, given how storytelling is fundamentally a social activity and the We, despite their physical multiplicity, are fundamentally solitary beings, with each hive living almost its entire life by itself. So there's going to be a gulf of understanding to get past before they can grok why it is someone would write down things that didn't happen in the lives of people who don't exist. Maybe then we can be like "and here are stories that are fanciful even by fiction standards, because of Reasons."
 
I'm fairly sure it's canon that the Warhammer fantasy world is a good ammount bigger than earth, so that's actually probably about right

IIRC, I actually dived deep enough to find the original source for this last time it came up on and it was someone eyeballing it on some random forum in the 90s based on adding a bunch of old maps together and making a lot of guesses for the bits in between before there was any canonical world maps, and it's been repeated as fact ever since. The actually canonical world map that was in a Games Workshop anniversary edition in 2004 doesn't have a key, but it has a consistent scale with the canonical maps that you can use to get an accurate key for it. I just double-checked my memory using Realm of the Ice Queen to get 1000 miles from the westernmost tip of northern Kislev to the easternmost tip of the Frozen Sea, and the 1996 Old World map that does have a key to get 4000 miles from the Sorcerer's Isles to the Dragon Isles, and both figures give you distance of about 12000 miles from the westernmost equatorial point (the part of the Broken Isles west of the Rumbling Isle, Naggaroth) to easternmost equatorial point (eastern tip of mainland Nippon). For reference, the circumference of the Earth is 24k miles.

This still leaves the gap between westernmost Naggaroth and easternmost Nippon as an unknown - this would be the width of the Far Sea, Warhammer's equivalent of the Pacific, which may or may not contain 'Fabled Lumbria' - but the Warhammer Pacific needs to be the same width as the rest of the world combined just to give the Warhammer world the same circumference as ours. The equivalent ocean in our world is only 5k miles, which would make the Warhammer world only three quarters the size of ours.

@Boney, would you mind clearing up if the Ithilmar windfall will be partially passed onto Mathilde, or just reinvested into the EIC immediately? I've been assuming it'd be the former.

The EIC will take back the amount it invested plus any expenses or opportunity costs of having done so and the rest of the windfall will go to Mathilde.

Ok then why haven't we heard about this at all? And why did boney specifically tell us that if we want books from the Asur we need contacts in lothern or Marienburg. Not salkalten or altdorf, Marienburg or lothern directly.
The current evidence doesn't point towards the empire trading in lothern.

Because a reliable source means more than just asking really nicely of any captain that might look like they might be heading to Lothern at some point, and hoping that they'll sacrifice the guaranteed profit of goods that are always in demand in favour of hoping they are able to figure out what books Mathilde would want.

Altdorf hosts the Ulthuan Embassy, and the College has Asur on its staff, if not it's faculty. It's mentioned somewhere that having an elf tutor for noble children is very popular in certain circles. All that points to Ulthuan/Empire trade happening.

All that is drawn from 4e's take on the Karl Franz future, which is separated from the quest by thirty in-universe years, many butterflies, and the tyranny of linear time.

@Boney would the elves be up to trade more besides just gold for Ilthimar? Like say goods or services that the empire or colleges would like. Or to have someone go teach the EIC how to make spin silk.

Money can be exchanged for goods and services.

You know, I don't think we ever got the in-character explanation for how the attack went wrong, and I can't remember the out-of-character explanation either.

I think at that point I was expecting a greatly-relieved Mathilde and a freshly-healed Abelhelm to be able to discuss exactly what went wrong over a drink or several later.
 
IIRC, I actually dived deep enough to find the original source for this last time it came up on and it was someone eyeballing it on some random forum in the 90s based on adding a bunch of old maps together and making a lot of guesses for the bits in between before there was any canonical world maps, and it's been repeated as fact ever since. The actually canonical world map that was in a Games Workshop anniversary edition in 2004 doesn't have a key, but it has a consistent scale with the canonical maps that you can use to get an accurate key for it. I just double-checked my memory using Realm of the Ice Queen to get 1000 miles from the westernmost tip of northern Kislev to the easternmost tip of the Frozen Sea, and the 1996 Old World map that does have a key to get 4000 miles from the Sorcerer's Isles to the Dragon Isles, and both figures give you distance of about 12000 miles from the westernmost equatorial point (the part of the Broken Isles west of the Rumbling Isle, Naggaroth) to easternmost equatorial point (eastern tip of mainland Nippon). For reference, the circumference of the Earth is 24k miles.

This still leaves the gap between westernmost Naggaroth and easternmost Nippon as an unknown - this would be the width of the Far Sea, Warhammer's equivalent of the Pacific, which may or may not contain 'Fabled Lumbria' - but the Warhammer Pacific needs to be the same width as the rest of the world combined just to give the Warhammer world the same circumference as ours. The equivalent ocean in our world is only 5k miles, which would make the Warhammer world only three quarters the size of ours.
Since you made your deep dive, Andy Law - who made Warhammer's cosmology - has made a blog post saying that the Empire's cosmology is bigger in all ways. Bigger planet, bigger sun, longer days, bigger week, bigger year. Source is here.
 
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I would like precisely zero attention from them

Well, the issue there is that the fog path is honestly a much bigger draw of attention from people that might be in a position to make trouble. Buying a bunch of weird metal for exorbitant prices would get around, but more as a hot piece of gossip among noble circles. Opening an entirely new trade route meanwhile (Out of magic even) is the combination of fantastical and strategically relevant that means it will immediately be piped directly to any Elector Count level figures who put any importance on the Laurelorn issue.

So at that point, doing the Ithilmar trade doesn't really move the needle much in a relevant way regarding attention I think.

Luckily if all goes well though, I think it would probably not actually go into operation until the turn after we negotiate it at the soonest, at which point we'd hopefully be working on our first prototype.

They're not in a position to sell directly to Laurelorn, sure, but if they knew the demand actually existed a lot of them would probably hold out on the bet that that other merchants will eventually also be able to sell in Laurelorn and buy at prices that still aren't directly what they'll be in Laurelorn, but aren't "firesale" relative to the money that stands to be made on it.

Not disclosing all your markets doesn't really seem like a scam to me. I don't think the EIC would think so either, considering that's a huge part of the way they do business, we saw it in a smaller form with the time a bunch of the Hunters Hills was purchased to sell to the loaded mercenaries only they knew were about to come back home hungry for land. And in a much more major way when the expansion strategy was pivoted to monopolize as much of the new canal market they knew was coming before any potential competition.

I think at that point I was expecting a greatly-relieved Mathilde and a freshly-healed Abelhelm to be able to discuss exactly what went wrong over a drink or several later.

I want to say at one point Mathilde talked to someone later on and they mentioned for a minute or two the undead were supercharged with a buff spell. I really can't remember who that would have been though.
 
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The EIC will take back the amount it invested plus any expenses or opportunity costs of having done so and the rest of the windfall will go to Mathilde.
Alright, count me in for the Ilthimar action then. Not that I'm any less concerned about the negative attention it might bring, but my hunger for the markets of Lothern is rather exceeding that caution.
 
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Since you made your deep dive, Andy Law - who made Warhammer's cosmology - has made a blog post saying that the Empire's cosmology is bigger in all ways. Bigger planet, bigger sun, longer days, bigger week, bigger year. Source is here.

Not to take anything away from the fellow, but he didn't 'make Warhammer's cosmology'. He first started writing for it in the latter stages of 2e's life cycle in the mid to late 2000s, when the setting was already very well established. 6th Edition was already wrapped up at that point. Besides that, he's the one credited for cartography in Realm of the Ice Queen, and the scale of the map in it is one of the ones that puts the Warhammer world as smaller than ours. In just about anyone's canonicity tier list, the stuff that was actually published is higher than blog posts made a decade and a half later.

If I really felt like I had to square the two I might make an argument about how the Warhammer setting seems to have a greater land-to-sea ratio and thus more dry land to be fought over, which means it could be considered a bigger world in that sense. But since I already have to live with this quest being incompatible with actual publications that came out after it started, I don't think I'm going to lose any sleep over blog posts made three months ago.
 
On another note, does The Talking Beast only work on creatures physically incapable of human speech? Or is any creature that can't speak and/or understand someone else's speech a valid target? (It doesn't appear that sapience is a limitation, since Amber wizards and We are both valid)
The exact line is poorly understood. It's possible that the library-We will hit a point where the spell no longer works on it because it will have completely drifted away from the lifestyles that resonate with Ghur.
On the subject of the We I've been thinking about some alternative possibilities for communication in the event of the Talking Beast spell failing. Some of my current ideas are:

1. Writing. Just use a notepad and a pencil.​

2. A speaking voice dog. A dog (or other animal) with The Talking Beast who can listen to what the We is saying and repeating it in another language. However this probably won't work, it's been noted that The Talking Beast can only be used to make an animal speak a language that the caster knows, which is why the We can only speak Reikspiel and not Khazalid, the Wizard who made the enchantment only knew Riekspiel. It might be possible to work around this by giving the We an item enchanted with Master's Voice to compel the speaking voice dog to say certain things even if it doesn't directly understand the We. This is however complicated and probably inferior to the other solutions.​

3. Illusion. Give the We an item enchanted with Illusion that can be used to make any speech sounds they need. Problem, would require either a way to interface with the We's mind or have manual controls which would be very complicated given how many possible phonemes there are, would probably need something like a stenographers keyboard attached to it.​

4. Human interpreters. Create a body/sign language that allows for the We to communicate words and concepts solely through body movement and have a staff of human (or humanoid) librarians who are trained to interpret that language and act as translators to others who don't know the We's nonverbal language. Would be a good way of including Verenan librarians into KAU, long-term they'll become inferior to the immortal We but having a justification for keeping them around even if they are otherwise redundant would make the Verenans happier since they get to feel included.​

5. Birbs. There's a spell in the Celestial spellbook called Birdspeak which allows you to talk to birds. Unlike The Talking Beast it is not cast on an animal, it's cast on your self hopefully meaning it doesn't rely on the caster's understanding of a language to work and instead simply makes it so the statement that the target can speak to birds is axiomatically true, in the same way Invisibility doesn't bend light around you or make you transparent, it makes you invisible because magic says so and reality knows better than to pick a fight with magic. An additional casting of The Talking Beast could allow any bird to act as a translator for the We but an even simpler solution is to skip that part and use birds who already have the natural ability to talk as translators. The most well known talking birds are parrots but there are others such as mynas, starlings, mockingbirds, lyrebirds, and plenty of corvids including crows, ravens, magpies, jays, jackdaws, and a familiar friend, choughs. A library filled with talking birds does have a nice fantasy vibe in my opinion and this option is probably my favorite. If we want the Verenans to still feel useful they can be subordinate librarians to the We even if they are completely redundant as actual librarians and their only actual use would be to deliver books to the reading rooms for those too arachnophobic to enter the library itself.​
 
On the subject of the We I've been thinking about some alternative possibilities for communication in the event of the Talking Beast spell failing. Some of my current ideas are:

1. Writing. Just use a notepad and a pencil.​

2. A speaking voice dog. A dog (or other animal) with The Talking Beast who can listen to what the We is saying and repeating it in another language. However this probably won't work, it's been noted that The Talking Beast can only be used to make an animal speak a language that the caster knows, which is why the We can only speak Reikspiel and not Khazalid, the Wizard who made the enchantment only knew Riekspiel. It might be possible to work around this by giving the We an item enchanted with Master's Voice to compel the speaking voice dog to say certain things even if it doesn't directly understand the We. This is however complicated and probably inferior to the other solutions.​

3. Illusion. Give the We an item enchanted with Illusion that can be used to make any speech sounds they need. Problem, would require either a way to interface with the We's mind or have manual controls which would be very complicated given how many possible phonemes there are, would probably need something like a stenographers keyboard attached to it.​

4. Human interpreters. Create a body/sign language that allows for the We to communicate words and concepts solely through body movement and have a staff of human (or humanoid) librarians who are trained to interpret that language and act as translators to others who don't know the We's nonverbal language. Would be a good way of including Verenan librarians into KAU, long-term they'll become inferior to the immortal We but having a justification for keeping them around even if they are otherwise redundant would make the Verenans happier since they get to feel included.​

5. Birbs. There's a spell in the Celestial spellbook called Birdspeak which allows you to talk to birds. Unlike The Talking Beast it is not cast on an animal, it's cast on your self hopefully meaning it doesn't rely on the caster's understanding of a language to work and instead simply makes it so the statement that the target can speak to birds is axiomatically true, in the same way Invisibility doesn't bend light around you or make you transparent, it makes you invisible because magic says so and reality knows better than to pick a fight with magic. An additional casting of The Talking Beast could allow any bird to act as a translator for the We but an even simpler solution is to skip that part and use birds who already have the natural ability to talk as translators. The most well known talking birds are parrots but there are others such as mynas, starlings, mockingbirds, lyrebirds, and plenty of corvids including crows, ravens, magpies, jays, jackdaws, and a familiar friend, choughs. A library filled with talking birds does have a nice fantasy vibe in my opinion and this option is probably my favorite. If we want the Verenans to still feel useful they can be subordinate librarians to the We even if they are completely redundant as actual librarians and their only actual use would be to deliver books to the reading rooms for those too arachnophobic to enter the library itself.​
This feels like something we could commission a solution to from Laurelorn, although the cost would probably be high.
 
We're getting dangerously close to turning Mathilde into an RPG questgiver that hires a fantasy roleplay party to find and retrieve a translator mcguffin.
Junior adventurers are just errand boys of senior adventurers who are rich enough to contract out the boring stuff so they can go on the adventures that they're actually interested in.
Would require that the We have the ability to manipulate magic which we have seen no sign of. The only reason Wolf can speak it is because he's a familiar and has some level of magical ability.
 
Wasn't this how she got the materials for her staff?
That's what I call a gateway quest. It starts at just posting a bounty, then it's just convenient to find a party you can trust, then a couple more, and soon enough you're not able to stop lurking ominously in the corner of bars, waiting for an intrepid band of adventurers to wander in. It needs to stop here, before Mathilde gets a taste for muttering ominous warnings and dramatically yelling about the true danger of the mcguffin.
 
On the subject of the We I've been thinking about some alternative possibilities for communication in the event of the Talking Beast spell failing. Some of my current ideas are:
Writing is likely to work out more than anything else due to being the simplest option, but I think the Illusion idea has some possibility. It may take several Library-We lifetimes to end up becoming a being which is somehow no longer a beast by Ghur's standards, and by that time typewriters may end up being a thing in the Empire. Alongside an adventurous mechanic and an item enchanted with Move (which the We would already have to move around books and whatnot), the biggest obstacle would be getting used to typing, not worrying about the manual controls.

I want to make a joke here about the Emperor's TTS Device but I'm not sure I could make it funny enough.
 
I just realized:

It's known that projecting a 3 dimensional shape (like the surface of a planet) onto a 2d plane (like a map) introduces distortion, and that in a Mercator projection, which is/was the most commonly used form for world maps, that distortion manifests as an inflation of size the closer you get to the poles, such that the poles are projected as infinite and can't be displayed.

That sounds quite familiar, doesn't it?

So we can explain the weird anomalies of the Chaos Wastes as Chaos trying to make the planet conform to an idealized 2 dimensional plane instead of a real 3 dimensional curved surface, and the further you get into the Wastes, the greater the distortion, such that when you reach the Polar Gates, it becomes effectively infinite in size, which is how we get large Chaos groups that we can't otherwise explain the logistics of—they have infinite territory.
 
I just realized:

It's known that projecting a 3 dimensional shape (like the surface of a planet) onto a 2d plane (like a map) introduces distortion, and that in a Mercator projection, which is/was the most commonly used form for world maps, that distortion manifests as an inflation of size the closer you get to the poles, such that the poles are projected as infinite and can't be displayed.

That sounds quite familiar, doesn't it?

So we can explain the weird anomalies of the Chaos Wastes as Chaos trying to make the planet conform to an idealized 2 dimensional plane instead of a real 3 dimensional curved surface, and the further you get into the Wastes, the greater the distortion, such that when you reach the Polar Gates, it becomes effectively infinite in size, which is how we get large Chaos groups that we can't otherwise explain the logistics of—they have infinite territory.
Maybe it's the Aether leaking into reality? Like dark matter creating new space, except instead of dark matter it's chaos magic juice. Reality ends up incredibly unstable because there's more and more aether between the material atoms and molecules, but it's still real enough because the warpstuff is copying the reality that's floating around. Probably not canon for DL, but an interesting idea.
 
They might be exploiting the properties of infinite sets, the Lord of Change said they have "worlds without counting" implying the existence of infinite other worlds. The weird thing about infinities is that when you shuffle infinite amounts of things you can get both more or less than what you started with. Hilbert's paradox of the Grand Hotel is a paradox where if you have a hotel with an infinite amount of rooms, all of them occupied, you can still accommodate new guests by moving the existing guests around and inversely, you can have an infinite amount of guests leave the hotel while not having a single room left vacant. A related paradox, the Banach-Tarski paradox, is a theorem which proves that you can carve a sphere into five pieces and then reassemble them into two spheres identical to the first, violating conservation of volume. This works as long as each of those five pieces are made of an infinite number of infinitely small points which are then rearranged. Chaos may be using the same trick, shuffling soldiers between an infinite amount of worlds to end up with more than they started, (from the view of a single world, in infinite terms the number of troops is just as infinite as when it started). As for why they don't use this to bring an overwhelming force to crush Order perhaps there's only so much shuffling they can do before reality puts its foot down and say "no", perhaps they enjoy playing the game more than winning it and deliberately don't go full out, or maybe it's something completely different.

I don't know if this theory is true or not, hell it probably isn't, but I thought I'd at least mention the possibility.

TLDR: Infinity is weird as all hell and Chaos might be exploiting that weirdness to make 1=2.
 
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It needs to stop here, before Mathilde gets a taste for muttering ominous warnings and dramatically yelling about the true danger of the mcguffin.
A party of rough adventurers, digging up a Nehekaran tomb, uncover a locked, ancient tome...
In camp that evening, the grey stranger who hired them mysteriously appears.
"YOU MUST NOT READ FROM THE BOOK!"
<grabs>
"Give it here, I call first dibs!"
 
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