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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Tomcost said:
I am going to argue for mapping Brettonia before negotiating with Brettonia at least. We should not go fully blind into this.
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I agree with this if only because if we have the maps already, that's one less thing they can put on the negotiating table. Putting unique positional advantage aside, we're trading about...5AP here? Recruitment, mapping actions and rollouts for non-Bretonnia spaces have zero use to them, so just pure Waystones R&D actions:
T38: Baseline Establishment
T39: Tributary Research, Leyline Research
T40: Runes Reseach, Tributary Prototypes
T41: Capstone, Riverine Prototype
T42: Foundations
Okay, 8AP. That is BIG at a "personal favour" level. Hell it's sizeable at an empire scale to get 8AP of effort from a Lord-level character. That's what we're trading from ourselves and discounting the input of literally everyone else.
 
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Au revoir giant spider summon from nowhere, we never even knew you...

I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
 
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Zero Gravitas said:
Not particularly.

I just don't think that the College leadership or the WEB MAT members would protest as culturally this level of taking advantage would be entirely expected.

I also don't think we'd gain any benefits from sending WEB MAT to Ulthuan - except perhaps for getting Max to take a vacation. He probably really needs one. Then again if Elfcation is Mathilde's idea of vacationing then Max may swear off the concept of vacations in its entirely.
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I do not think 'culturally expected' is something the likes of Starke is likely to give a damn about, the man found and made use of that one time we tried to convert a bunch of guards to Ranald, i.e. the god who is most popular in the Grey College, if anything that would be a lot more culturally acceptable than outright embezzlement.
 
Glau said:
Au revoir giant spider summon from nowhere, we never even knew you...

I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
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I still want to do the bretonnian adventure, because it sounds fun.
That said, there's always a chaos army or a waaagh or so something growing. Mathilde is well placed to help with it, but she can help with a lot of things. Most, given her all-rounder nature and connections. But it is not and cannot be her sole responsibility to deal with every problem in the old world.
 
Glau said:
Au revoir giant spider summon from nowhere, we never even knew you...

I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
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I think a few people have expressed interest in handling the Iron Orcs anyway. I know I'd at least consider supporting it, though timing remains our bane, as ever.
 
Glau said:
I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
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I mean, to be perfectly clear canonically the Iron Orcs were to my understanding introduced in one of the 2e books set AFTER storm of chaos and were hardly listed as having contributed anything to Archaon. They are very frustrating for carcassone to handle but Elite Chaos Army they do not actually appear to be.
 
Glau said:
I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
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Eeehh.
I have absolutely no doubt that if we peeled off 1AP, just 1AP, and dedicated it to "Scout out what the biggest gribblies problem is in [X]", where [X] is literally any Imperial or Kislevite region or half the Bretonnian provinces or Tilean/Estalian city states, that that action would turn up something roughly equivalent to the Iron Orcs in terms of "Someone really should deal with this".

The Iron Orcs are only special because a) that preliminary scouting action has been done for us and b) because the people it affects have something we want.

If the only thing we're after is filling sandbags in preparation for the Everchosen, we as a single Lord-level Hero unit can go pretty much anywhere and find something worth doing.
 
Glau said:
Au revoir giant spider summon from nowhere, we never even knew you...

I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
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I agree I want to screw over the Iron Orcs. I think we do it during negotiations with them, or maybe afterwards. Get that debt higher.
Gavin Prince said:
I have absolutely no doubt that if we peeled off 1AP, just 1AP, and dedicated it to "Scout out what the biggest problem is in [X]", where [X] is literally any Imperial or Kislevite region or half the Bretonnian provinces or Tilean/Estalian city states, that that action would turn up something roughly equivalent to the Iron Orcs in terms of "Someone really should deal with this".

The Iron Orcs are only special because a) that preliminary scouting action has been done for us and b) because the people it affects have something we want.

If the only thing we're after is filling sandbags in preparation for the Everchosen, we as a single Lord-level Hero unit can go pretty much anywhere and find something worth doing.
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Eh, saving a scouting AP, plus the fact that we want to focus on anti-chaos and we are uniquely good vs Orcs, gives us an unusual ability here, I'd say.

The other thing I want to do is try to retake the brass keep and fix the nexus there.
 
Whether or not you consider them a major threat, given the amount of stuff we've already butterflied I do think that relying on "The Iron Orcs did very little in canon" in particular is of dubious value as an argument for why they aren't one.
 
DragonParadox said:
I do not think 'culturally expected' is something the likes of Starke is likely to give a damn about, the man found and made use of that one time we tried to convert a bunch of guards to Ranald, i.e. the god who is most popular in the Grey College, if anything that would be a lot more culturally acceptable than outright embezzlement.
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Remember that Mathilde could have just walked away without giving Starke any explanation. That as well giving a non-answer were on the menu.

Starke played good cop a lot in the hopes that Mathilde would actually cooperate (which we did).

Glau said:
I would like to register again my concern that an elite chao army is growing in our rear during the ramp up to everchosen. I'm not sure that not dealing with it because we don't need to in order to get Brettonian help any more is a clean win.
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If Bretonnia can't deal with that than what use is it as an ally?
 
The real risk I see is that they don't attack Brettonia, they show up on the other side of the mountains and try to gut the empire while it's forces are concentrated at the other end of it.
 
reignonyrparade said:
I mean, to be perfectly clear canonically the Iron Orcs were to my understanding introduced in one of the 2e books set AFTER storm of chaos and were hardly listed as having contributed anything to Archaon. They are very frustrating for carcassone to handle but Elite Chaos Army they do not actually appear to be.
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I wouldn't exactly rely on that to keep them down.
 
Glau said:
The real risk I see is that they don't attack Brettonia, they show up on the other side of the mountains and try to gut the empire while it's forces are concentrated at the other end of it.
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The Iron Orcs are in the Irrana Mountains, not the Grey Mountains. If they showed up on the other side of the mountains they would be in eastern Estalia, western Tilea, or Skavenblight.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
If Bretonnia can't deal with that than what use is it as an ally?
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I'm not particularly fond of the Iron Orcs action, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that in that hypothetical scenario, Bretonnia's armies helping hold the line at Kislev would lead to a better outcome than Bretonnia's armies being tied up at home and unable to contribute, which is similar to what happened in the Great War Against Chaos.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
If Bretonnia can't deal with that than what use is it as an ally?
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Resources devoted to that are resources not devoted to threats elsewhere, and there's a difference in the amount of resources required to clear out an army that is in the process of building up as opposed to the amount of resources that you have to devote to handling an army that's completed its preparations and is on the offensive. This is particularly true when you can't find the base or bases rearming and resupplying that army.

In addition, applying resources with a known use case (lots of big heavily armored people on big horses) to a problem outside of that use case (locating a magically hidden base of operations) and then assessing their usefulness based on that seems like a pretty dubious method of determining how valuable those resources are.
 
Blackout said:
The Iron Orcs are in the Irrana Mountains, not the Grey Mountains. If they showed up on the other side of the mountains they would be in eastern Estalia, western Tilea, or Skavenblight.
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There has been consistent confusion over exactly where the Iron Orcs are, so I have provided a very bad visual aid for the thread.

The Iron Orcs are located roughly somewhere in the green circled area.

 
Zero Gravitas said:
I also don't think we'd gain any benefits from sending WEB MAT to Ulthuan
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My conscience won't let me leave Eike alone in Lothern without a capable adult to go to, OR leave her behind in the Empire while we go on a vacation to an elf island! with a famous port!! that she likely wouldn't otherwise get to visit until way into her Journey!
 
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Oh hey, the website implemented the Thread-Picture change, as visible from the Watched Threads tab. Now it's on the quest image instead of @Boney 's avatar, which is a bit weird. I thought we'd swapped quest arcs for a second, since that's a very thematic thing that Boney does.

(Should the thread update the front image manually, per arc, to keep the current image visible?)
 
Mopman43 said:
There has been consistent confusion over exactly where the Iron Orcs are, so I have provided a very bad visual aid for the thread.

The Iron Orcs are located roughly somewhere in the green circled area.

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Lot further west than I was thinking, thanks for the visual. I wonder if it's random chance they are there?

Seems like the closest relevant target would be Los Cabos Waystone, unless they are just going to tie up the Brettonians.
 
I think there's a general idea of putting a [KAU] action to Lothern on that turn to open Asur books as a purchase option.

Adding an [EIC] action inserting gossipmongers there is probably fun/useful enough to justify doing it on the one turn we have the option. Lothern is the equivalent of London; a finger on the pulse there would give us continent-wide tidbits, and give Boney an avenue for funnelling information that we otherwise mostly rely on our superiors for.

With both together, Eike has enough supplementary work going on to keep her busy I think. She'd be there for three months. One shadowing whatever factor we put in the KAU, one for EIC, one for Study, with the rest either doing something idle in Lothern or spent doing what we assign her to back before we head out.
That seems perfectly reasonable for one turn.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Oh hey, the website implemented the Thread-Picture change, as visible from the Watched Threads tab. Now it's on the quest image instead of @Boney 's avatar, which is a bit weird. I thought we'd swapped quest arcs for a second, since that's a very thematic thing that Boney does.

(Should the thread update the front image manually, per arc, to keep the current image visible?)
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I kinda like that being stuck on the Grey College sigil.
 
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