Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Glau]

It's going to be interesting if we come to them as a mostly unknown and then they get there info packet a few weeks in that tells them what we've been up to.

also, you don't need windsight. look for the place with dead and twisted plant life. and reports of heavy mutations. and where beastmen congregate. and a thousand other things that make finding corrupted and missing waystones almost trivial for people who know what a waystone is and where the current ones are.

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Thinking more on this, it's not impossible to find areas of Dhar concentration if you know the signs, but I don't think there's a way to tell if the area is dhar soaked because there aren't any Waystones, or if it's dhar-soaked because the leylines has been blocked downstream, without windsight.

 

[Imugi]

Rather have Gambler on Eflcation then Protector, even if any Coin shenanigans are impossible. Protector can lead to Elf favor which could be used for gaining more access to Ulthuan. Gambler could lead to Mathilde meeting an Asur bigshot and becoming friends with them which could lead to more access to Ulthuan. What I'm getting at is Gambler could lead to Mathilde meeting Teclis.

 

[Abhorsen]

If we are going to use the deceiver in negotiations, we're going to need to have the lies cooked up beforehand. Any suggestions on what they should be?

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For the Drucchi/Ulthuan ones, just claim that you've gotten promised good stuff from prior negotiation, and elaborate from there. Maybe have another, non-commital negotiation session with the Drucchi before going using the overwork. To Ulthuan, lie about our knowledge of Marienburg's responsibility for the dwarf ship sinking, and that we might release said info if they don't hand back Marienburg. Lie about our ability to go full Kislev, and willingness to cause the whole Old World to go Kislev and partition the network. There's a ton of stuff to lie about (some of it probably not wise, tbc, but possible).

 

[SpaceSloth]

I'd rather we just go, stab a dark elf, maybe see some cool tricks we can try to replicate later, and just chill.
It's an elfcation for a reason, not an businelf trip.

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It would be nice if we managed to negotiate for Eike to be able to go on elfcation in the future, and hopefully turn this into some more permanent ties between grey order and shadow warriors.

 

[WorldSlayer]

Buff:
Turn 43
1: Morbs
2: Foundation Prototype
3: Control shadows
4: Weaponize Apparations (if needed, else grab more)
5: Seviroscope? (if done, then map something)

KAU: ???
EIC: Insert agents in Nordland
SERENITY: AV Book 1/2
EIKE: Negotiations?, Tradecraft with Hochlander
Coin: Gambler on something

Basic idea behind this turn is to get buff, especially in Melee. We are about to do Elfcation, let's get some practice in. We have 2 weapons nearly ready to use (the Riders, and our shadow that's on auto-strangle mode). Both deal partially with our biggest problem of being swarmed, and our shadow is simply good in melee combat. We are going to be up against a lot of people very good at combat, so we gotta be ready. I think that Elfcation has one of the highest chances of us dying. They are simply a class above what we have faced other than Alakazam and the Eshin in terms of personal combat ability.

The Seviroscope

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Holy shit, is that an Arcane Mark action I see!
Forget the other actions, you have my vote.

That said I doubt there's going to be that much variation in the plans since 3 actions are basically spoken for (apparitions, Orbs, waystone project continuation).

If the plan is all about preparation maybe do the seeing through pall of darkness or Practice shooting while invisible. Better action economy than Sevirscope or mapping since we get discounts for that with WEBMAT.

Turn 44
1: Assemble Waystone ?
1: Druchii Negotiations
2: Johann: Use Riders on Sylvania (Protector)
3: Max, Johann, Egrimm: Map Bretonia, or if not possible without negotiations, Tilea, Estalia
WEB: Egrimm: Lothern Negotiations ? (maybe cut this)
4: Elfcation 1/3 (Protector)
5: Elfcation 2/3 (Protector)

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Ahh the elfcation. Is it rising in popularity or do us planmakers have the wrong end of the stick.

Lots of question marks I see though. Fortunately we've got plenty of stuff to WEBMAT in our stockpile.

• Kurgan Shrine to Mannsleib
• Kurgan enchanted weapons (approx. 12)
• Branulhune - investigate the odd flash when it is desummoned underwater
• Ghyran Nut

There's probably even better ideas than just digging into our pile of artifacts though.

Payoff:
Turn 45
1: Elfcation 3/3 (Protector)
2: Ulthuan Negotiations (Deceiver)
3: Druchii Negotiations (Deceiver)
4: Bretonia sale of Waystones (Deceiver)
5: Set up waystones in Kislev
OW: Set up waystones in Sylvania

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Yep Deceiver to score big on our negotiations. Sounds legit.

I'd want a successful waystone to demonstrate and grant additional leverage but the great thing about deceiver is technically we don't need one! That sounds a bit risky though, so it's better to actually have developed a waystone anyway.

All in all, the plan seems good to me.

If we are going to use the deceiver in negotiations, we're going to need to have the lies cooked up beforehand. Any suggestions on what they should be?

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These other guys are offering me deal X. (so for example we go to Ulthuan, say the druchii will give me the passcodes super cheap then ask what their deal is)

It's a pretty great idea to throw Deceiver at them. Should really up our negotiation game.

 

[Abhorsen]

Ooh, for a lie for Brettonia, we can lie and say that Kislev paid a ton for them, and can (probably) get kislev to go along with the lie. Or we can lie and say that Kislev is the hold out and requires a ton of stuff from Bretonia, but we are trying to argue them down to something reasonable.

 

[Parabola]

Rather have Gambler on Eflcation then Protector, even if any Coin shenanigans are impossible. Protector can lead to Elf favor which could be used for gaining more access to Ulthuan. Gambler could lead to Mathilde meeting an Asur bigshot and becoming friends with them which could lead to more access to Ulthuan. What I'm getting at is Gambler could lead to Mathilde meeting Teclis.

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Wobbles hand in a so-so manner

I'm a bit torn on it, because the Gambler could definitely push things in the right direction, and I think the only other time we've seen it work on the strategic level was for Drakenhof, but the possibility of meeting Teclis feels far-off. Also, the Protector would likely give far more consistent results in terms of recognition.

 

[WorldSlayer]

Wobbles hand in a so-so manner

I'm a bit torn on it, because the Gambler could definitely push things in the right direction, and I think the only other time we've seen it work on the strategic level was for Drakenhof, but the possibility of meeting Teclis feels far-off. Also, the Protector would likely give far more consistent results in terms of recognition.

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True, but Protector doesn't save your life if you get in trouble.

I think gambler should have some serious consideration. It can both boost good things (such as meeting the right people, aid in doing something impressive) and help deal with bad things (spot an ambush, counter a spell). Pretty solid option I think.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

I'm a bit torn on it, because the Gambler could definitely push things in the right direction, and I think the only other time we've seen it work on the strategic level was for Drakenhof, but the possibility of meeting Teclis feels far-off. Also, the Protector would likely give far more consistent results in terms of recognition.

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I originally was completely on board with protector as a nice reliable boost. Then I remembered this:

@BoneyM I have to ask, if Ranald nudges the dice hard enough when/if we go to Nagarythe, is it possible for us to run into Alith Anar? The Shadow King Himself?

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Yes.

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So I'm actually a bit torn now. I think it's still unlikely, but it's tempting.

 

[Abhorsen]

To be clear, I ain't picky about Protector v Gambler for elfcation, it would just require some swap out of the Riders in Sylvania for the 3rd Elfcation action.

 

[keykingdom]

I know I don't comment much but I have to say I really really want to do the iron Orc action, I think It would be fun and I really want to do some adventure even if it end up being a mini one I know elfcation is on the plans to do soon but I still want to do it.

 

[Derpmind]

I think Mathiode is as prepared for the Elfcation as she's ever going to be: She invented an entire sword style designed to embarrass elves. For entertaining the (bloodthirsty) warriors of Nagarythe, nothing else will really matter.

 

[Redshirt Army]

I definitely won't accept '[*] Mathilde plays the quest for us' as part of a turn plan. If you want to achieve something, you have to tell me how you're doing so, that's how this whole quest thing works.

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... I feel like I'm miscommunicating here.

IRL, I, Redshirt Army, am trying to put together a rough outline for what Mathilde might do over the next few turns. (The questionable value of trying to plan so far ahead is being set aside for now. )

One of the ideas I had was having Egrimm come along with us to Ulthuan and do some preliminary dealing with some of the more influential groups in Lothern, in the hopes of getting a better negotiating position when it comes to talking with Ulthuan about the Waystone codes.

This is not an existing choice available in turns, this is my original invention. As such, because I try to be relatively objective about my contributions, there is the risk that this idea is, uh... deeply stupid, or at the very least something you as a QM aren't interested in writing. That's kind of the risk that write-in actions take.

I'm trying to give you cover to make me drop the idea if it's something that's dumb but I haven't realized it. Sorry if that didn't get across.

 

[Somic]

...You know, if we're taking Eike along (which I very much want to do because exploring an elf! port!! that she wouldn't normally go to because it's so out of the way! is the awesomest vacation for Eike), and we're gonna be busy hanging out with Nagarythians killing Druchii, can we send her to Asur diplomacy classes beforehand? So when she gets to Lothern, it's not just aimless bumbling for her, but exploring and comparing things she's heard to reality, maybe compiling a report to us. (We don't need that much diplomacy ourselves to hang out with the Shadow Warriors, right?)

(Also fully behind taking Johann along to see if he can find interesting or useful things to buy. Or someone else capable of protecting Eike, anyway.)

 

[Thomasfoolery]

One of the ideas I had was having Egrimm come along with us to Ulthuan and do some preliminary dealing with some of the more influential groups in Lothern, in the hopes of getting a better negotiating position when it comes to talking with Ulthuan about the Waystone codes.

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I believe the issue is that the "Preliminary dealing" Is basically a non action, it's like the ???? step before the Profit! step. It doesn't actually touch on anything tangible. It needs to be something like "Get Egrimm to hold philosophy classes in Lothern".

 

[DragonParadox]

... I feel like I'm miscommunicating here.

IRL, I, Redshirt Army, am trying to put together a rough outline for what Mathilde might do over the next few turns. (The questionable value of trying to plan so far ahead is being set aside for now. )

One of the ideas I had was having Egrimm come along with us to Ulthuan and do some preliminary dealing with some of the more influential groups in Lothern, in the hopes of getting a better negotiating position when it comes to talking with Ulthuan about the Waystone codes.

This is not an existing choice available in turns, this is my original invention. As such, because I try to be relatively objective about my
contributions, there is the risk that this idea is, uh... deeply stupid, or at the very least something you as a QM aren't interested in writing. That's kind of the risk that write-in actions take.

I'm trying to give you cover to make me drop the idea if it's something that's dumb but I haven't realized it. Sorry if that didn't get across.

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I think I get what the issue is (Boney should of course correct me if I am off the mark): Egrimm coming to Ulthuan is not an action, it is a thing you want. The point of WEB-MAT is that it allows us to take actions which are relevant to one or more participants more efficiently, the task of finding such actions is on us the players, just as choosing our collaborators is on us the players with the unspoken corollary that if we cannot find such actions we should not have that collaborator. In asking the GM to make up an Egrimm action you are asking (unintentionally I am sure) for free action economy.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

Ooh, for a lie for Brettonia, we can lie and say that Kislev paid a ton for them, and can (probably) get kislev to go along with the lie. Or we can lie and say that Kislev is the hold out and requires a ton of stuff from Bretonia, but we are trying to argue them down to something reasonable.

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I don't think that's really impactful.

Ultimately from the POV of Bretonnia it doesn't matter if they pay stuff to Kislev or the Eonir or the Karaz Ankor or even the Empire. Ok maybe it'd matter a bit if they'd be paying the Empire exclusively but not that much.

What it matters is how much they want those Waystones and how they view the Project. If we want to deceive them effectively it'd have to be on how far along the Project is or how vital it is for Bretonnia.

One of the ideas I had was having Egrimm come along with us to Ulthuan and do some preliminary dealing with some of the more influential groups in Lothern, in the hopes of getting a better negotiating position when it comes to talking with Ulthuan about the Waystone codes.

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Hmm... why would Egrimm be particularly good at preliminary negotiations?

At least Mathilde has a lot of traits that make her good at dealing with foreign cultures and she's got some guaranteed elf rep from both giving the Druchii prisoner and from the Waaagh Bane lectures that were attended by the Asur ambassador - and which indirectly would have informed the Asur that Mathilde dealt with a huge Waaagh.

 

[Derpmind]

I don't think "preliminary negotiations" is a viable option at all. Either we kick in the door with our strongest diplomatic Mathildian opening, or we'll get rejected immediately. There's not much Egrimm can do to prepare for said door kicking, especially as he doesn't have Mathilde's record to back him up.

If we want to take Egrimm along with us to Lothern, we'll have to do it another way.

 

[Mopman43]

I don't think "preliminary negotiations" is a viable option at all. Either we kick in the door with our strongest diplomatic Mathildian opening, or we'll get rejected immediately. There's not much Egrimm can do to prepare for said door kicking, especially as he doesn't have Mathilde's record to back him up.

If we want to take Egrimm along with us to Lothern, we'll have to do it another way.

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We could try making specific contacts to buy books, but I'm not sure that our WEB-MAT employees can be used for KAU purposes. I don't think Egrimm himself would be thrilled to be given that job.

We really need a specific purpose in mind, not some nebulous 'go there and open ties'.

 

[Boney]

... I feel like I'm miscommunicating here.

IRL, I, Redshirt Army, am trying to put together a rough outline for what Mathilde might do over the next few turns. (The questionable value of trying to plan so far ahead is being set aside for now. )

One of the ideas I had was having Egrimm come along with us to Ulthuan and do some preliminary dealing with some of the more influential groups in Lothern, in the hopes of getting a better negotiating position when it comes to talking with Ulthuan about the Waystone codes.

This is not an existing choice available in turns, this is my original invention. As such, because I try to be relatively objective about my
contributions, there is the risk that this idea is, uh... deeply stupid, or at the very least something you as a QM aren't interested in writing. That's kind of the risk that write-in actions take.

I'm trying to give you cover to make me drop the idea if it's something that's dumb but I haven't realized it. Sorry if that didn't get across.

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The problem here is that you're telling me what you want to achieve but you're only gesturing in the vague direction of how that's going to happen. I can't really evaluate 'do some preliminary dealing' and 'some of the more influential groups' because there's nothing there to evaluate. What deals? With which groups? How does this lead to the negotiating position being better?

 

[Zero Gravitas]

We could try making specific contacts to buy books, but I'm not sure that our WEB-MAT employees can be used for KAU purposes. I don't think Egrimm himself would be thrilled to be given that job.

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Egrimm would probably swallow it - Mathilde got him promoted to LM.

Using WEB-MAT employees for KAU would be a very mild sort of abuse of power by the Empire's standards. Once we drop the Orbs the Colleges will gladly swallow vastly worse behaviour.

It just doesn't seem to be a particularly helpful action?

 

[Tomcost]

Maybe you are overcomplicating things?

We can send the whole Web Mat to Lothern as a vacation and to take care of Eike if you want.

It is not as if your employees will begrudge you paid leave in elf lands

And it won't even cost an action, as we are not ordering them to do anything

 

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

Something to remember is that the purpose of the elfcation is to hang out with shadowwarriors and fight druchii for three months. I think people are trying to maximise value too much by adding things we could do, such as negotiations with the Tower of Hoeth, or expanding the EIC into Lothern, or whatever, and I'm not sure if we'll have the capacity for that.

It's an internship with the world's deadliest guerrilla fighters, in one of the world's bleakest swamps. They'll show us some neat tricks, we'll show them some neat tricks, we'll kill some bad people, and drink elfwine and sing elfsongs long into the misty night.

I'm going to pin my expectations a little lower—we'll hang out with some cool people (maybe even Alith Anar?), learn some new shadowmagic, maybe unlock "Grandmaster Swordswoman 1/5" with a focus on doublegreatswording (shadowsword spell when?), and get to add some druchii loot to our trophy room. And I'm very excited for that, I think it'll be very cool.

 

[Blackout]

Being able to do preliminary negotiations with the Asur might be more than a little optimistic in regards to how racist elves are towards humans. I suspect Mathilde is more likely to just get stonewalled with "haha look at this cute thing acting like it knows what it's talking about" until you're ready to drop bombshells like "we've built a functioning Waystone" or "we'll go to the Druchii if you don't tell us the codes" (an excellent way to instantly wipe out whatever goodwill we earned from the Shadow Warriors and make us look us look duplicitious, by the way) and at that point you cannot call the negotiations preliminary anymore.

 

[DragonParadox]

Maybe you are overcomplicating things?

We can send the whole Web Mat to Lothern as a vacation and to take care of Eike if you want.

It is not as if your employees will begrudge you paid leave in elf lands

And it won't even cost an action, as we are not ordering them to do anything

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Can we though? We are a research institute for specialists in poking holes in hell and extracting power from it. I am not sure people who reach the pinnacle or near it of that profession would take it well if we say 'I am paying you to stand around in an elf trading port'.