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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
What makes Mathilde better equipped than the thread to tackle that question? She knows barely anything about Ulthuan.
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I'm really trying to ask "is this something you, the QM, would accept in a turn plan, or is it something that's blatantly a bad idea in-universe"? :V

I suppose we'd need more Ulthuan books to get a decent idea of what's possible, then?
 
Redshirt Army said:
I'm really trying to ask "is this something you, the QM, would accept in a turn plan, or is it something that's blatantly a bad idea in-universe"? :V

I suppose we'd need more Ulthuan books to get a decent idea of what's possible, then?
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I definitely won't accept '[*] Mathilde plays the quest for us' as part of a turn plan. If you want to achieve something, you have to tell me how you're doing so, that's how this whole quest thing works.
 
Derpmind said:
Plus, you need geographical knowledge to figure out optimal distribution of Waystones, not windsight.
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So, assuming geographical knowledge here being where the existing Waystones, nexi, tributaries, and leylines are, which ones are active, and which ones are corrupted?

Ok, sure. But you need windsight to get that knowledge. And I'm really not sure a Waystone plopped in middle of a field somewhere without the rituals and magic required to hook it up to the vortex would do anything but create a Dhar pool.
 
Boney said:
I definitely won't accept '[*] Mathilde plays the quest for us' as part of a turn plan. If you want to achieve something, you have to tell me how you're doing so, that's how this whole quest thing works.
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To be more concrete, is "[*] Explore the wonders of the city of Lothern" a valid action that might start giving us the Asur diplomacy skill, which would presumably be useful for negotiating later on?
 
Tomcost said:
I think that we can indeed train Asur diplomacy with the Colleges?
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It is, but a) it also covers Dwarven diplomacy, so it's a bit redundant and less appealing and also costs 1 CF or 100 gc, and b) learning things hands-on is a different experience (and possibly, more fun to read about) than learning in a classroom environment.

Of course, nothing stops us from doing both.
 
Parabola said:
It is, but a) it also covers Dwarven diplomacy, so it's a bit redundant and less appealing and also costs 1 CF or 100 gc, and b) learning things hands-on is a different experience (and possibly, more fun to read about) than learning in a classroom environment.

Of course, nothing stops us from doing both.
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Considering our once in our lifetime opportunity of the Elfcation, I would put AP so that we don't fuck it.

We might even be able to squeeze WEB MAT AP on it if we take the others to Lothern.
 
Glau said:
So, assuming geographical knowledge here being where the existing Waystones, nexi, tributaries, and leylines are, which ones are active, and which ones are corrupted?

Ok, sure. But you need windsight to get that knowledge. And I'm really not sure a Waystone plopped in middle of a field somewhere without the rituals and magic required to hook it up to the vortex would do anything but create a Dhar pool.
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from the looks, the ritual to hook them up is quite likely to just be telling (literally telling, outloud) another waystone where this new one is. the entire system has an overseer that seems to respond to specific verbal commands.

also, you don't need windsight. look for the place with dead and twisted plant life. and reports of heavy mutations. and where beastmen congregate. and a thousand other things that make finding corrupted and missing waystones almost trivial for people who know what a waystone is and where the current ones are.

and you don't need the knowledge of where nexi, tributaries, or really even leylines (those things move in exact compass bearings, if somewhere is between two waystones in the required directions then it is very likely on a leyline.). only where waystones are.

or really, where one waystone is would do. they are standardised, iirc. you could just pick a single waystone and move in the correct directions and eventually you'll see a waystone. and you could pretty simply use that to map the entire old world network. you don't have to, the works already been largely done, but you could.


a far more important consideration is defense. if you put a waystone there, can you stop it being taken over?
 
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Parabola said:
To be more concrete, is "[*] Explore the wonders of the city of Lothern" a valid action that might start giving us the Asur diplomacy skill, which would presumably be useful for negotiating later on?
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No. Bumbling about Lothern and bouncing off the kind of Lothernians that you might encounter when aimlessly wandering the streets will give you no usable insight into the other 98% of Asur. Also I feel exhausted just thinking about trying to write such an aimless action.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I don't think the denizens of Nagarythe are too fussed about whether Mathilde has all the right social graces. Her ability to kill Druchii is what they'll be looking at.
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Yeah, but we are not just thinking about Nagarythe here. We need to leverage good reputation with them into good reputation with other elves. And for that we need Asur diplomacy.

It is not going to be just gather 200 druchii asses to get the codes. 200 druchii asses is barely the starter quest.
 
Didn't Teclis teach the collages a bunch of waystone stuff when he returned briefly in future events we've butterflied away~. Clearly solution is to just kidnapp Teclis from the grocery store and have him teach us again.
 
Boney said:
No. Bumbling about Lothern and bouncing off the kind of Lothernians that you might encounter when aimlessly wandering the streets will give you no usable insight into the other 98% of Asur. Also I feel exhausted just thinking about trying to write such an aimless action.
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Fair enough. I was wondering if it was possible given how we did something similar for Tor Lithanel, but now that I think about it, there is quite a difference from a very isolated city for a very isolated people where you lose citizenship in if you hold dwellings outside it, and a port city that allows for a lot of outsiders to come and go as they please compared to the rest of the island.
 
Parabola said:
Fair enough. I was wondering if it was possible given how we did something similar for Tor Lithanel, but now that I think about it, there is quite a difference from a very isolated city for a very isolated people where you lose citizenship in if you hold dwellings outside it, and a port city that allows for a lot of outsiders to come and go as they please compared to the rest of the island.
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Yeah, Tor Lithanel pretty much is Laurelorn. There are Asur out there that would say the same for Lothern, but mostly just to start fights with Caledorians.
 
So to edit @Redshirt Army 's initial idea:

Buff:
Turn 43
1: Morbs
2: Foundation Prototype
3: Control shadows
4: Weaponize Apparations (if needed, else grab more)
5: Seviroscope? (if done, then map something)

KAU: ???
EIC: Insert agents in Nordland
SERENITY: AV Book 1/2
EIKE: Negotiations?, Tradecraft with Hochlander
Coin: Gambler on something

Basic idea behind this turn is to get buff, especially in Melee. We are about to do Elfcation, let's get some practice in. We have 2 weapons nearly ready to use (the Riders, and our shadow that's on auto-strangle mode). Both deal partially with our biggest problem of being swarmed, and our shadow is simply good in melee combat. We are going to be up against a lot of people very good at combat, so we gotta be ready. I think that Elfcation has one of the highest chances of us dying. They are simply a class above what we have faced other than Alakazam and the Eshin in terms of personal combat ability.

The Seviroscope

Redshirts Turn 44 plan is mostly good IMO, with a slight swap to order regarding negotiations:
Redshirt Army said:
Turn 44
OW: Assemble Waystone ?
1: Druchii Negotiations
2: Johann: Punch Sylvania (Protector)
3: Max, Johann, Egrimm: Kislev tributaries, or map Bretonnia, or map Tilea/Estalia
WEB: Egrimm: Lothern Negotiations
4: Elfcation 1/3 (Protector)
5: Elfcation 2/3 (Protector)
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Work:
Turn 44
1: Assemble Waystone ?
1: Druchii Negotiations
2: Johann: Use Riders on Sylvania (Protector)
3: Max, Johann, Egrimm: Map Bretonia, or if not possible without negotiations, Tilea, Estalia
WEB: Egrimm: Lothern Negotiations ? (maybe cut this)
4: Elfcation 1/3 (Protector)
5: Elfcation 2/3 (Protector)

Drucchi negotiation is later. Johann is off of Sylvania this so that we put full benefit onto the Dammerlicter. The overwork is delayed a turn because of a time dependent action.

Payoff:
Turn 45
1: Elfcation 3/3 (Protector)
2: Ulthuan Negotiations (Deceiver)
3: Druchii Negotiations (Deceiver)
4: Bretonia sale of Waystones (Deceiver)
5: Set up waystones in Kislev
OW: Set up waystones in Sylvania

Here is our big payoff: we get to harness the Deceiver in 3 negotiations. Honestly, I don't think it's even needed for Bretonia, but why not use it there also while we have it active. Also, the Overwork delay allows us to begin putting up waystones in Kislev and Sylvania at the same time, encouraging tighter ties. Obviously, Turn 46 should be about payoffs for the Karaz Ankor and Eonir.
 
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Thomasfoolery said:
The once in a lifetime opportunity is only to do with Nagarythe, who isn't going to care is my point. Mathilde could go to Lothern whenever she wants.
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We might encounter Asur nobles, archmages, and just generally people who are not able to be bought with a hefty dose of severed druchii asses* while on Nagarythe, or at least we might be able to leverage Nagarythe connections to get in contact with them, either while in Nagarythe or after the Elfcation.

My point is that we might miss opportunities while on there if we don't know some basic things.



* Okay, I should drop the get 10 bear asses joke...
 
Tomcost said:
We might encounter Asur nobles, archmages, and just generally people who are not able to be bought with a hefty dose of severed druchii asses* while on Nagarythe, or at least we might be able to leverage Nagarythe connections to get in contact with them, either while in Nagarythe or after the Elfcation.

My point is that we might miss opportunities while on there if we don't know some basic things.
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I guess there's a slim possibility of this, but frankly we'll be spending our time in a slum where no one goes but the natives (Nagarythe) or in a trading port that's a cultural mixing pot. In neither case do I think it would be a big deal not to have an Asur diplo skill.
 
If we are going to use the deceiver in negotiations, we're going to need to have the lies cooked up beforehand. Any suggestions on what they should be?

Feim said:
or really, where one waystone is would do. they are standardised, iirc. you could just pick a single waystone and move in the correct directions and eventually you'll see a waystone. and you could pretty simply use that to map the entire old world network. you don't have to, the works already been largely done, but you could
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Ok. You'd just have no way of knowing if that other Waystone was active and connected to the network, and you'd have no idea if the verbal commands given did anything or not.

Windsight seems like a non-negotiable part of this to me.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I guess there's a slim possibility of this, but frankly we'll be spending our time in a slum where no one goes but the natives (Nagarythe) or in a trading port that's a cultural mixing pot. In neither case do I think it would be a big deal not to have an Asur diplo skill.
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It is true also that we will get the opportunity to train it while we are there...

I just would like at least one action to train it, just so that Mathilde gets some formal training before going there.
 
The whole 'lets make synergy actions to go on Elf vacation' tangent has gotten me to seriously think about the thing for the first time in a while. I do not usually focus on things the thread plans for several turns from now because things generally change dramatically in the long term, but this needs saying I think:

We did not get that mission as Mathilde Weber, slayer of a million orcs
We did not get that mission as Mathilde Weber finder of Karak Vlag
We did not get that mission as Mathilde Weber (hopefully) maker of the first non-Asur Waystone in thousands of years

It is cool that we did do all those things, some of them mean we are probably better equipped for the job, some of them mean we could get more interesting perks if we do well, but it is worth keeping in mind the scale of access we are trading on here. We got that silver bird token after going down a rat hole, finding one Druchi and handing him over untouched to the ambassador. He would have no particular reason to know that much about the difficulty of fighting Skaven, but he probably assumes it it at least middling impressive for getting that Druchi without allowing him to wake.

This is not Skyrim, quests do not level with us automatically. Sure our deeds may persuade them to give us more responsibility and if Mathilde proves herself skilled enough they will probably do the same, but we only have 99 days and we do not know much about the band of Shadow Warriors that would be inclined to take us

We should not really expect to be able to trade up on our deeds much and as for our skills... well mastery at a single wind counts as being an apprentice to an elf. As Boney put it elves measure magical skill by the metric of how good you are at being an elf mage.

If we get more than that cool, but that should be thought of as a bonus not something we are owed.
 
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I'd rather we just go, stab a dark elf, maybe see some cool tricks we can try to replicate later, and just chill.
It's an elfcation for a reason, not an businelf trip. :V
 
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