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So favor expenditures to me would be best framed in terms of these lines, which then become the name of the item. We want something runefang-ish, we spend our Karag Lhune favors and call it Branul Lhune, which if I've got the Khazalid right is "the art of cleverness in moonlight", or to someone who knows our deeds, "Shenanigans in Karag Lhune". If we want something earthing rod-ish, let's say it'll cost us four favors, maybe we combine the Joined the Expedition and Finished the Expedition values and get something with a unity or journeying motif.

While I would like to spend 25 favour on a weapon to surpass Metal Gear, this seems like a pretty good compromise. We're going to need a better weapon, that's not really up for discussion. I can understand adopting an opposing position to that for rhetorical purposes but in the world of Warhammer, people of real significance and authority need to be able to really go to town on a motherfucker, in addition to whatever other skills they might have.

... I'm getting the urge to write the horrible fanfic version of one of the Stabreim books where MAGA and KRAGG get together.

Witch hunters? Yeah, this guy right here.
 
Is there any way to preserve our clothes from the effects of fire? One idea I had was to cover ourselves in pitch and light ourselves on fire in the manner of Rome's incendiary pigs while protected by the belt, terrifying our enemies and burning them whilst making attack on our person difficult, but that would swiftly leave us in the nude.
Well, it'll work towards the Hub of Confusion thing? So that's ... nice?
Witch hunters? Yeah, this guy right here.
You know you want it. I'll show you. I'll show all!!!! GrimDark OTP!

You know it's good, because it's got a clever name for the ship. And just to be clear, you made me do this.
 
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Unless the warboss is in the middle of a couple hundred guys, as they often are. Then a melee weapon is... not ideal.
Usually for an assassin, we get to chose when to kill the warboss (i.e. 2 weeks before the war begins).

Also, the forgetfulness/crazyness charm helps us escape in general from being mobbed, something our seed is very vulnerable to (There's WoG noting that if your body keeps getting stabbed, you will run out of charge and die for real.)
 
Yeah, I believe they can deal with miscasts, but I'm not sure they can prevent them, and I think that's an important distinction.
So it would prevent us from getting sucked into the warp, but we would still be badly hurt by the mismanaged energies. That's still a big improvement, but I think the College would do a better job. Though there's value in just getting both.

Still, for this I'd be in favor of using College favors. We might get some from the expedition, and we'll get some from the research.
I'm decently sure they can get below badly hurt by mismanaged energies, to the point that it still happens because Evil Birdy God is a Dick but the energies don't do more than fizzle irritably under the glowering presence of Angry Dwarf Runes. But I will leave open the idea that, maybe they can't.

If they can give everything else to what I said then that'd be a nice balm.

(Now readers should note that I don't want a 25 point lab since I think if we spend 20 on a lab and 15 on a Kill Sword then a looooooot more people will be happier than if we get a 25 point lab and 10 point sword. A 15 and 15 split is also absolutely cool with me since that means we have 8 favor to play with for Other Stuff and job training)
 
I could get behind a 15-15 split.

That'll give us a weapon comparable to our belt in potency, and enough favors left over to build one heck of a nice pad.
 
I really want a secure tower for Mathilde Weber, like magical defenses from the college, defense against magic, skaven, chaos from the dwarves. I want to spend 15 points on the tower, in one go. Literally just the tower and not the rooms inside. We can get specialized rooms for enchanting and spell practice later. Pimp out a library etc. That's why I think we should get the really bling sword of +20-25 dwarven favor, and proceed to purge the surroundings of any enemy of the dwarves. Then use that favor gained to build our tower. Though there is some serious flaws with this, and I will most likely vote for a more even distribution of dwarven favor if it came to it. I love the idea of Mathilde having a ultimately secure position. A place she can %100 feel safe in, where she can stash her lovers+apprentices+Dwarf Drinking Companions+Hunky Witch Hunters+Shirtless Knights+Shirtless Farm Boys+loot.
 
I'm decently sure they can get below badly hurt by mismanaged energies, to the point that it still happens because Evil Birdy God is a Dick but the energies don't do more than fizzle irritably under the glowering presence of Angry Dwarf Runes. But I will leave open the idea that, maybe they can't.

If they can give everything else to what I said then that'd be a nice balm.

(Now readers should note that I don't want a 25 point lab since I think if we spend 20 on a lab and 15 on a Kill Sword then a looooooot more people will be happier than if we get a 25 point lab and 10 point sword. A 15 and 15 split is also absolutely cool with me since that means we have 8 favor to play with for Other Stuff and job training)
Right now, we just don't know, but we'll get information on that soon enough. The rest sounds reasonable enough, though I still think a combination of dwarf and college favor would work out better. I might be wrong on that, however, if lots at once scales to better.

Frankly, I don't want a 15 sword. We'll want a right murder stick before this quest is over (and in my personal estimation, a lot sooner than that). If we're going to put out for a weapon, we should do it properly.
For that matter, if paying a whole chunk at once gives better results, I wouldn't want a 15 lab either. Again, do it properly the first time.

A 50/50 split is just going to leave me doubly unsatisfied.
 
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One important note on favor expenditures is that if we want the full +5 bonus from dwarf books in our library, we need to spend either 2 or 4 favor per topic (I'm not clear if you have to buy the rare, very rare, and extremely rare categories all individually at 1/1/2 favor each or can just jump to the most expensive category and have it cover the other two). My guess would be that we have at least three categories in which we'll want the +5 as quickly as we can get it; "magical principles" for example would be applicable to a hell of a lot of what we do, and "necromancy" or "the undead" would be a good buy for reference material before reading Liber Mortis. Everything dwarfdom knows about greenskins could be pretty useful if we're writing up a paper on sabotaging and resisting greenskin magic for our new trait, too. These bonuses can stack with human library bonuses, and high research/study/paper-writing rolls are more likely to give us better traits and effects, so we want them very, very badly.

Reserving a large chunk of our accumulated favor for this would be prudent.
 
Is there any way to preserve our clothes from the effects of fire? One idea I had was to cover ourselves in pitch and light ourselves on fire in the manner of Rome's incendiary pigs while protected by the belt, terrifying our enemies and burning them whilst making attack on our person difficult, but that would swiftly leave us in the nude.
Might be dangerous, we're explicitly not immune to the side effects of fire, like smoke.

So maybe if we just light our head on fire

Wait, no, we also can't see through fire. Too much akshy.
 
Look, it's just...

More than 15 doesn't fit, you know? We're already looking at near Runefang quality there, Mathilde doesn't need the capacity to be the killiest thing in the world, just killy enough to pop anything we're likely to get in melee with, and to help us cheese it if things go wrong.

We don't need a personal Ghal Maraz to do our job, Mathilde is more than a mere assassin. Leave that kind of monofocus to the hammer cult.
 
Right now, we just don't know, but we'll get information on that soon enough. The rest sounds reasonable enough, though I still think a combination of dwarf and college favor would work out better. I might be wrong on that, however, if lots at once scales to better.

Frankly, I don't want a 15 sword. We'll want a right murder stick before this quest is over (and in my personal estimation, a lot sooner than that). If we're going to put put for a weapon, we should do it properly.
For that matter, if paying a whole chunk at once gives better results, I wouldn't want a 15 lab either. Again, do it properly the first time.

A 50/50 split is just going to leave me doubly unsatisfied.
The reason I'm okay with it is that if a 10 point sword is comparable to a Runefang in cost and thus effect, that a 15 point expenditure is equivalent to the Belt which is mindblowing to me then a 15 point lab and sword are going to be two sources of amazingly mindblowing potency shoved directly into our eyeballs.

I adhere big time to the "do it right the first time" for all of this myself, its just my scale is adjusted lower than yours to find the Belt's level of play satisfies "doing it right". If it didn't then that means Kragg the fucking Grim didn't do something right the first time, and the universe will promptly crack in half :V
 
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*Shrug* I'm not spending less on our sword/axe then we spent on our belt. For me its 15-20 or nothing at all.

I mean, I've said before that 15-20 favor is my comfort zone, and I THINK SuperSonicSound has pushed for a 25 Favor Weapon before though I might be wrong, so your not alone there.

Anyone else got good ideas for grouping things together?

I really love the poetry of Branul Lhune, and I do want something about the same potency as our belt. How would you all feel about adding the favor for joining and finishing the expedition to the favor from reclaiming Karak Lhune, and aiming at a 16 favor weapon?
 
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Separately, if we do make a super-late game weapon for ourselves, I think a chaff-threasher would fit better than a lord-hunter. Once we get Smoke and Mirrors, we can effectively fight low and mid tier enemies forever, and just escape whenever a serious threat approaches us. We have a counter to almost everything; massed range fire? Block LoS with Pall of Darkness. Cavalry charge? Smoke and Mirrors behind them on shadowsteed, see how fast they can turn around from full speed. Massed low weapon skill troop wave? Good luck landing enough hits to put us down in a single turn through our massive collection of defenses, we can just warp away if you don't, plus they probably die before us from the retribution rune alone. Magic assaults are a thorny issue, but a sword is a moot point against, say, a headbutt spell. With our new mastery, we don't even get fatigued from any of this. Thus, the only ways we would be removed from the field would be a magic attack or us intentionally charging into a melee opponent who could kill us really quickly.

An assassin style sword would give us a decent chance against such foes, but we will gain the skills to avoid having to do that, and could instead chose a sword optimized for cycle-charging the enemy backline forever while running from anything heavy.
 
I will say that if we do end up with Kragg's 10S rune, studying with the Engineers that ahave taken up residence becomes much more attractive to me. Being able to hit like a cannonball becomes much more useful when you know what to hit, after all.
 
Look, it's just...

More than 15 doesn't fit, you know? We're already looking at near Runefang quality there, Mathilde doesn't need the capacity to be the killiest thing in the world, just killy enough to pop anything we're likely to get in melee with, and to help us cheese it if things go wrong.

We don't need a personal Ghal Maraz to do our job, Mathilde is more than a mere assassin. Leave that kind of monofocus to the hammer cult.
Says you. I'm looking a Nagash. The guy can murder most everything in melee, and cast like a mofo. My ambition isn't to be "some girl who's pretty good, I guess". My goal is to be great, among the best in history. So if I plan to have a personal Ghal Maraz, it's not monofocus. It's ambition to match it in every other regard.

I'll say "Hubris is a cowards word", but I don't want to imply cowardice by quoting you. I think it's more a different idea of what the scale of this quest should be.
The reason I'm okay with it is that if a 10 point sword is comparable to a Runefang in cost and thus effect, that a 15 point expenditure is equivalent to the Belt which is mindblowing to me then a 15 point lab and sword are going to be two sources of amazingly mindblowing potency shoved directly into our eyeballs.

I adhere big time to the "do it right the first time" for all of this myself, its just my scale is adjusted lower than yours to find the Belt's level of play satisfies "doing it right". If it didn't then that means Kragg the fucking Grim didn't do something right the first time, and the universe will promptly crack in half :V
Hmm, it does seem we have different ideas of scale. In my mind, if it can be done better, we should do better, because that's awesome, and I want to move towards that scale (even if it will take a long time).
 
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I did it. Phew, got to the end of the thread. I swear it gets harder each time.

One of the things we should note is that instead of just one wizard tower what we really want is three. Each specializing in different functions.

The Penthouse Suite: Mathilde's personal tower, this a combination of domicile and workplace and made to be the best place possible. We'll fill it with luxury beds with silken sheets, deluxe enchanting equipment, the best security and generally make it the most self-indulgent and impressive home that we can conceive. The place will be so desirable that when we bring fellow Grey WIzards in to visit they'll burn with such envy that they'll spontaneously turn into Bright Wizards.

The Experimentation Grounds: Some experiments are so dangerous that we won't want to have them done in our own home. Additionally it would be a good idea to have a place well away from populated areas for wizards in general to congregate and work together on experimental projects. This is something we'll want to look into more as we shoot for Magister Lord as part of our Chapter House.

The Enchanting Nexus: A magical locus is an immense asset and once we find one we'll want to lay claim to it. Once we have a claim we should be able to actually gain favor for offering it to the College and have them help set the place up into an amazing asset for wizards (the most important wizard with first dibs here being Mathilde). This is something that Wizards are more qualified to do than Dwarfs.

We don't yet know how favor costs work out for tricking out our wizard towers and what can be done incrementally and what needs to be done all at once. So we'll have to wait to find out, It's too premature as of right now to really speculate on the costs.
 
Before we spend favors, we should see what we can get with cash. I wouldn't be surprised if some small cost favors could be bought with cash, especially from the college.
 
I am hoping for a 20-25 favor greatsword, that we can most effectively kill greenskins. and Ranald's champion weilding a weapon comprable to Ghal Maraz fills me with glee.
 
Not all favor expenditures are equal, that is exactly why we're having the discussion. It might take ten (or thirty) Dwarf favors to have Kragg dance a short jig, but it would be worth precisely jack shit to us.

Dwarves are really fucking good at high-end weapons. Like, basically the best in setting. The best weapon they can make us will compare very well to what anyone else could theoretically do.

Dwarves aren't particularly great at human style magic. Their nature prevents them from doing it, and while their own capabilities could let them make some things that would be nice for investigating it, there are several factions that are flat superior to them at it.

While spending a few favors for some of the more esoteric tricks that we can't just purchase with gold would be a good investment for our lab, assuming that a fifteen-point lab would be the lab equivalent of a fifteen-point sword is likely incorrect. A fifteen point lab would be near as good a lab as the dwarves could put together, just as a fifteen point sword is, and they wouldn't stint on any expenses that could be called reasonable (no Adamant plated workbenches, though), but at the end of the day the differing magical traditions and lack of relative expertise could really harm the value we get out of said lab.
 
Separately, if we do make a super-late game weapon for ourselves, I think a chaff-threasher would fit better than a lord-hunter. Once we get Smoke and Mirrors, we can effectively fight low and mid tier enemies forever, and just escape whenever a serious threat approaches us. We have a counter to almost everything; massed range fire? Block LoS with Pall of Darkness. Cavalry charge? Smoke and Mirrors behind them on shadowsteed, see how fast they can turn around from full speed. Massed low weapon skill troop wave? Good luck landing enough hits to put us down in a single turn through our massive collection of defenses, we can just warp away if you don't, plus they probably die before us from the retribution rune alone. Magic assaults are a thorny issue, but a sword is a moot point against, say, a headbutt spell. With our new mastery, we don't even get fatigued from any of this. Thus, the only ways we would be removed from the field would be a magic attack or us intentionally charging into a melee opponent who could kill us really quickly.

An assassin style sword would give us a decent chance against such foes, but we will gain the skills to avoid having to do that, and could instead chose a sword optimized for cycle-charging the enemy backline forever while running from anything heavy.
Mmm, I'm not as interested in that for the basic reason that out of nearly a hundred threadmarks Mathilde has only gotten into open pitched battle four times that I can recall. Once in the Haunted Hills that I recall vaguely, once at the gates of Town Drakenhof, once at the gates of Und-Uzar, once at the East Gates.

Every other of her more than a dozen battles happened as a part of sabotage or chaos creating activities. Its in this Expedition however that makes it feel like the Big Battles hold a lot of significance.
 
I am hoping for a 20-25 favor greatsword, that we can most effectively kill greenskins. and Ranald's champion weilding a weapon comprable to Ghal Maraz fills me with glee.
It's an integral part of showing that dumb Sigmar guy up. First, get ultra sweet weapon. Second, become best friends with the high king (we've got the friends part, we're working on the High part). Third, beat up lots of Orks, Skaven, and Chaos, until everybody thinks we're super rad. Fourth, unite all of mankind in the Empire of Mathilde. Fifth, rob nasty gods until they stop.
EDIT: Because of my earlier posts, I wanna make it clear I'm joking here. Mostly.
 
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While spending a few favors for some of the more esoteric tricks that we can't just purchase with gold would be a good investment for our lab, assuming that a fifteen-point lab would be the lab equivalent of a fifteen-point sword is likely incorrect. A fifteen point lab would be near as good a lab as the dwarves could put together, just as a fifteen point sword is, and they wouldn't stint on any expenses that could be called reasonable (no Adamant plated workbenches, though), but at the end of the day the differing magical traditions and lack of relative expertise could really harm the value we get out of said lab.
Mmm, I find the idea that an elder race whose entire magical tradition is about harnessing and making safe to use the fuel we use can't help us out in making a safe and effective lab(which is the point of spending 15 favors on it) a bit... yeah. You get the idea, I don't really agree.
 
Says you. I'm looking a Nagash. The guy can murder most everything in melee, and cast like a mofo. My ambition isn't to be "some girl who's pretty good, I guess". My goal is to be great, among the best in history. So if I plan to have a personal Ghal Maraz, it's not monofocus. It's ambition to match it in every other regard.

I'll say "Hubris is a cowards word", but I don't want to imply cowardice by quoting you. I think it's more a different idea of what the scale of this quest should be.

Hmm, it does seem we have different ideas of scale. In my mind, if it can be done better, we should do better, because that's awesome, and I want to move towards that scale (even if it will take a long time).

You...

Do realize that the "hubris is a coward's word" thing falls in the category of "famous last words" unless the GM is deliberately writing a power fantasy, right?

It's not a blessing, it's a warning.

I wouldn't consider "unable to solo Nagash" as a failure point.
 
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Mmm, I find the idea that an elder race whose entire magical tradition is about harnessing and making safe to use the fuel we use can't help us out in making a safe and effective lab(which is the point of spending 15 favors on it) a bit... yeah. You get the idea, I don't really agree.
I think he's got something of a point. Five elf favors would get a better lab than five college favors. Dwarf favors aren't useless for this, but they'll probably only do a niche thing really well.
 
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