Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[SuperSonicSound]

Ok, went back and double-checked whether or not guns can take runes. Realms of Sorcery definitely makes no restriction on what weapons you can put weapon runes on, but Dwarfs 8ed has this:


It may simply be a case that the units with access to rune weapons in WHFB don't take ranged weapons and so there's no reason to say runes can be applied to ranged weapons, but could also be that they just straight can't. I'd say there's ambiguity there. Given the lack of restrictions in Realms of Sorcery plus the existence of war machine runes, I think it's ok to assume that runes can be put on handguns unless BoneyM says otherwise.

Click to shrink...

Hand weapons are melee weapons in WHFB. It refers to all one handed melee weapons.

Charging into combats in general is never going to be risk free. When we try to sword fight the Warboss we will still be making rolls and if we roll bad enough we'll get ganked.

Also I think you're the one trying to pigeonhole her as a Endgame Fighter by calling it a "dangerous mistake" to try and improve our magic.

Click to shrink...

No I'm quite happy for Mathilde to learn all the magic as well but battle magic needs to be a weapon of last resort because it has a much higher chance of killing your self and your allies we literally just lectured one of the Journeymanlings about this and those were for non battle magic spells. The reason the miscasts have been spectacular is because they've all been battle magic miscasts. I'd also argue I'm trying to avoid almost entirely Mathilde having to be an end game fighter. I don't want her to have to put loads of actions down to be a spectacular assassin that's why I want a powerful weapon to bridge the gap.

I want to be able to put a lot more actions into lab work than training with out worrying that doing so will leave us vulnerable in future campaigns should our stealth abilities fail us.

 

[Necratoid]

That's not how mindhole works. We don't know any spell that does that.

Click to shrink...

Which is exactly why I said previously to research one. Make people forget about a person/creature killed with it for some period of time... a day is horrifyingly effective, but an hour or even ten minutes can mess people up pretty bad. Its not that far off from mindhole really. Instead of one person forgetting you forever its a person being forgotten for a bit. Its completely in the Ulgu wheelhouse, particularly if it requires the death not to be seen.

A sword for infiltration fits the MC's build perfectly. The spell (even if of limited AoE or restricted to a relatively short time period) is hilarious in line with how she operates in the dark.

---

Also I'm not sure how the hell people expect Belegar to even manage to get hold of 20 points of great sword/axe on anything like a short time period. I mean the High King maybe... but he is actively pretending MC and Belegar fail to exist right now. Take most of a year to make such a thing even is Kragg was somehow convinced to make one.

 

[NeonLights]

Doesn't information given to Mathilde fall under the umbrella of guild secrets?

 

[chocolote12]

Also I'm not sure how the hell people expect Belegar to even manage to get hold of 20 points of great sword/axe on anything like a short time period. I mean the High King maybe... but he is actively pretending MC and Belegar fail to exist right now. Take most of a year to make such a thing even is Kragg was somehow convinced to make one.

Click to shrink...

Kragg made our fifteen favor belt; presumably if we want something on the same scale, but for a weapon, it should take him about the same effort (so a few weeks from the most magical good dwarf on the planet, but they aren't weeks taken out of our schedule or anything).

 

[Karugus]

Well, no, because the problem is that the very problem you're presenting here already demands a worst case scenario, and establishes that we either cannot or will not cede ground in a pinch.

Which is to say, we've been maneuvered into Death Ground and the only way out is through.

The correct solution to this is to have backup plans ready. A superior weapon at this point would be nice but also only helps us get into greater trouble, as it'll make us take greater risks because we think we can take it. I would rather make an investment into our position to ensure we have more pieces to maneuver to prevent us from getting into Death Ground in the first place--a top class tower will allow us to entice a great deal of subordinate Wizards to use as agents, which means we can lean on those interlocking specialties to create new options that hopefully let us avoid needing to walk into Death Ground in the first place.

When a plan goes sideways, the correct plan is to disengage and write it off as a bad one. Not hulk out and go full Conan the Barbarian. Our skillset is much better suited for cheesing it than it is taking the direct and shortest route out. And Mathilde is very good at disengaging.

For a ridiculous tier runeweapon to be our optimal choice, we're looking at a situation where she has a target that needs to die immediately, that can shrug off any harm less than a cannon ball, and that Mathilde is alone and has no capacity to flee after she's made her play. It doesn't need a direct rebuttal because the situation itself already requires a near Abelheim's Last Day series of disasters to exist in the first place.

I can support a 10-point Rune Weapon with ease, that would be very strong and serve our purposes excellent. I might be talked around to a 15-pointer, but more than that is ridiculous unless we're getting a Magic Staff baked in, and that's outside the scope of what Runesmiths can really do, probably.

I'd rather spend a pile of favors to effectively turn the penthouse area and above into the tower, and fill it with the precision tools we need to do research.

Click to shrink...

This seems like a lot of words to dismiss any escalation of threats as irrational. We're parked right next to some of the largest Greenskin strongholds around, we've got the Skaven underneath, and people have already brought up a canon incident in a few decades time nearby that might involve us having to face Manfred Von Carstein.

What is the way to avoid 'Death Ground' when we scout and infiltrate the enemy? We already have a divine artifact, and we'll likely develop Ulgu enchanted items to help. But apparently planning around the possibility of us rolling bad against a major enemy army with esoteric bullshit (like Chaos or Vampires) is 'Death Ground' presupposing.

Or maybe our sworn liege being cut off in harms way. That's definitely not likely to happen, pay no attention Abelheim Van Hal's death. We were there with him, we fought on the front lines with him- he still wound up dead as a doornail. Odds or no it still happened and risk of something like that is still something we live with. Do you think the thread wants to sit aside in any scenario that involves Belegar taking point if we can at all get involved? Yes or No. Until you give me answer any reply is going to ring rather flat.

People want a high end Rune Weapon not because we're irrational. But because no one wants to risk another person Mathilde or the thread cares about dying in front of> Because the thread has refused to back down at high stakes or risks before. Because we've literally been solo spelunking in evil rat men warrens or Orc held fortresses for half the expedition and expect on some level that trend to continue.

'The Magic Staff baked in'- you know the rune weapon is liable to qualify as a bastard sword and maybe let us free hand a magical staff right? Moreover, making ourself a staff seems so monumentally low effort when we're planning on developing our Ulgu enchantments it's a bit absurd for it to even be weighed against the rune weapon. Moreover, that's at worst a matter for College favors which yet again have nothing to do with our Dwarf Favors. The whole point of investing heavily in the weapon is because when a pivotal moment inevitably comes near on the battlefield or on a campaign in general people want to be prepared for it, and that means we can't necessarily disengage, that we can't necessarily throw massive battle magic in it's direction and hope we don't inadvertently kill someone we like, that we can't rely on the fact we're facing favorable odds.

Moreover, is such a weapon really a weapon? What do you think Dwarfs will see when they see Mathilde holding one of the greatest works of one of the greatest Rune Smiths alive? When a human envoy is carrying such a clear sign of their favor? What will Humans think? Swords, in fantasy, and otherwise are status symbols for a reason- and that's probably in part why it's the Grey Order's, the diplomats' Order's, symbol and badge of office. You go abroad carrying something like that and what foreign polity besides the Elves is going to risk offering disrespect? Naturally, there's an argument to be made that there are diminishing returns in terms of how many favors contribute to that impression, but the argument the weapon is just a weapon and is only good for battle doesn't necessarily hold that much water.

It was a random example pulled from my ass, friend.

The point I am attempting to make is that 15 Favor is enough to borrow three Hero Dwarf units to train whoever we want. Ever thought Durin should be getting trained by Malakai Makaisson, Ulthar by Josef and Skaroki by Gotrek the Slayer? Sure, who hasn't?
We could get the undumgi training from the Iron Breakers and three other similarly elite regiments. I'm not even sure the Dwarves have enough elite regiments to spend that much Favor on; maybe we'd just need to get them training from the Iron Breakers AND the Hammerers AND the Thunderers AND the Engineering Guild AND the Rangers AND the miners AND the Dwarven War Yodelers.
It's enough to build three factories that could go a long way to making K8P self-sufficient. Gunpowder, siege engines, whatever crazy thing we want.
It's enough to build three Wizard Towers anywhere in the world that will last until the heat death of the universe.
We could walk into four different Dwarf Holds to do magical research that can only be done there. Like, just for a random example, we could go to Karak Hirn and learn how to use sound to instill Terror in creatures like Trolls, and then go back to rework our old horn project from before Und-Uzgar.

But no, apparently it's not getting a runefang that's a failure of imagination and giving up on 'every unique way Mathilde can contribute in fighting besides being a generic Grey Magister.'

Click to shrink...

What do these accomplish? What do these alternatives do that fit our and Mathilde's goals? What is Belegar doing if he's not helping us train up the Undumgi as best he can anyways? What is he doing with his own favor if not similar things to this? What are Durin, Ulthar, and Skaroki doing with their own favor gains? What the fuck is Belegar, someone who's so competent in this sort of thing we've made stewardship memes about it doing? What is the Dawongr spending path doing if not reinvesting in K8P? What do we need 3 Wizard towers for, and why can't we gradually build up one over time considering we know they can be built on a room by room basis? The Horn idea is actually awesome and something I want to do, but it doesn't necessarily demand a massive set of favors upfront and we have other sources of favor on hand.

And I'm sorry I trust other people to leverage their own role in this campaign and be competent. I guess I just took that 'This is not an empire quest' tag seriously. But in all honesty- why in the hell do you think we have to be the one to bring Dwarf factories and industries and training to a major Dwarf hold? Belebro has agency and skills and fame as well y'know.

 

[Kornet]

Also I'm not sure how the hell people expect Belegar to even manage to get hold of 20 points of great sword/axe on anything like a short time period. I mean the High King maybe... but he is actively pretending MC and Belegar fail to exist right now. Take most of a year to make such a thing even is Kragg was somehow convinced to make one.

Click to shrink...

Kragg was convinced to make a 15-point talisman for a human wizard he never met in his life, and maneged to do it in a co-opted smith during a rather short stay in Barak Var.

Since than, Kragg was actually moved enough to complement the human in question, making the task of convincing him much, much easier. And I doubt that runic weapons take much longer to do than equally complex talismans.

Edit: Mathildaed.

 

[BurnNote]

It was a random example pulled from my ass, friend.

The point I am attempting to make is that 15 Favor is enough to borrow three Hero Dwarf units to train whoever we want. Ever thought Durin should be getting trained by Malakai Makaisson, Ulthar by Josef and Skaroki by Gotrek the Slayer? Sure, who hasn't?
We could get the undumgi training from the Iron Breakers and three other similarly elite regiments. I'm not even sure the Dwarves have enough elite regiments to spend that much Favor on; maybe we'd just need to get them training from the Iron Breakers AND the Hammerers AND the Thunderers AND the Engineering Guild AND the Rangers AND the miners AND the Dwarven War Yodelers.
It's enough to build three factories that could go a long way to making K8P self-sufficient. Gunpowder, siege engines, whatever crazy thing we want.
It's enough to build three Wizard Towers anywhere in the world that will last until the heat death of the universe.
We could walk into four different Dwarf Holds to do magical research that can only be done there. Like, just for a random example, we could go to Karak Hirn and learn how to use sound to instill Terror in creatures like Trolls, and then go back to rework our old horn project from before Und-Uzgar.

But no, apparently it's not getting a runefang that's a failure of imagination and giving up on 'every unique way Mathilde can contribute in fighting besides being a generic Grey Magister.'

Click to shrink...

First, please calm down. The tone of the thread is starting to degrade again. Second, some of those ideas are interesting, but I'm not sure about the details.

Do you know what being trained by a hero means? If it's a single action, that's a little expensive. If it's "Until we reach a certain level", that's a hell of a lot more attractive, and something I'd go for.
I personally think we have no obligation to spend our favors on factories in K8P. Besides, Belegar is much better position for that sort of thing.
I'm personally not that interested in building a super fancy regiment. That might change if we get to know them. But by that point, we'll probably have accumulated enough favor to get them that training. So why spend it in one big chunk? Unlike a weapon, that won't improve the results.
What part of the wizard tower can be bought with favor that cannot be bought with rep+money? I'd rather just spend coin, so what makes a favor fuelled tower better?
Are you sure 4 favor is "learn the special thing of the hold" and not "your weird magic will be tolerated, manling"? Cause I though it was the second, and Belegar's trust in us and our magic is why it's free in K8P.

 

[EVA-Saiyajin]

Let's calm down guys, nice and easy.

I for one am kind of hoping maybe there'll be some useful or at least worthwhile for selling stuff in the penthouse. Assuming it's greenskinified, we might still be able to sell such stuff to the Colleges for favors.

and though it will take some time and effort to clear out the possessions that hadn't been safely stowed in the King's Armoury,

Click to shrink...

 

[Garlak]

Honestly I think this is partly Boney's fault for having all of the miscasts in this quest blow up massively. Like the various Shamans or that one Bright Magister. Where's all the slightly more tame miscasts that cause mad laughter or make you shit your pants?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, it's kind of... both annoying and terrifying. We've managed to avoid miscasts.

But all our main examples of miscasts in the quest have been of the Well'p, You're Fucked scale.

I mean... When one of your character's main thing is magic, but -- ergh. Drakenhof. 4 or 5 Magisters, and 1 Journeywoman. And we were the only ones to walk away from that on our own power. Or in the latest battle; the Shamans almost defeated themselves more.

I kinda wish magic was more accessible and useable and less "Well'p every major event or location has some terrible, terrifying examples of miscasts." =/

It's like... the way somebody mused out loud about how it felt like (to them) Mathilde being lucky and fortunate, in the shinies she gets or the deeds she accomplishes. I'd rather not have Mathilde's track record with magic come down to being luckier than anybody else. But, god, I don't know what to call Drakenhof anything else. Everybody on both sides basically ground themselves down with failures and miscasts. =/ ((How close are we to disaster any time we're casting spells to sneak around or in combat?))

Finally, this; the reason we're talking about such a powerful weapon is because it's going to be an end-game purchase. If we buy correctly, we will never ever, never never replace this thing, ever. Sigmar didn't replace his, and he became a god.

Click to shrink...

We are not Sigmar. We are not a Barbarian Warrior Hero. We are a mage.

Frankly put, I would feel it a waste if we got such a hugely-expensive magic item! Because it would be chained to little ol' us. Rather than being wielded by some Warrior Hero, who would be going out there and doing Warrior Hero Things. If we got such an item, I would feel ashamed and wincing at the very idea, because Mathilde would be going around with a relic on her hip that would be better fit on a Thane's or an Ironbreaker's or a Slayer's hip.

That's another major thing that is getting to me on a gut level, really.

Super-powerful magic melee weapons should be things that Warrior Lords have, and want to have, rather than mages.

... I think that we have just grown too used to all those WHF quests where you are a Bretonnian Knight or an Elector Count; where having or desiring to have awesome armor and weapons is natural and normal.

Such that players feel conditioned to want those things in a game where we're a short Stirland peasant of a mage. ><

I mean...

Note how people are bringing up things like Warbosses and Dragons and shit. As "You have to be prepared for this. What're you gonna do if you meet this and you aren't prepared, huh? What then? Do you want us to die?" As if that shit's normal. As if to not plan and expect such things is crazy and dangerous. As if it would be crazier to adjust your decisions, actions and playing style to avoid such combat situations.

 

[HebrideanStarfis]

While it's very, very unlikely that it'll change on a grand scale, Mathilde might eventually be able to cast *one* Battle Magic spell reliably as a mastery benefit or similar, if we're very lucky.

 

[Guile]

And I'm sorry I trust other people to do leverage their own role in this campaign and be competent. I guess I just took that 'This is not an empire quest' tag seriously. But in all honesty- why in the hell do you think we have to be the one to bring Dwarf factories and industries to a major Dwarf hold? Belebro has agency and skills and fame as well y'know.

Click to shrink...

Favours compound.

Say Belebro has 50 Dwarf Favour to call on. Durin has 10. Skaroki has 10. Mathilde has 15.

Well, those guys all have their own ideas about what to spend Favour on, including stashing it for a rainy day. But suppose Belebro authorizes three factories, Durin authorizes one, and Skaroki authorizes one.

5 factories pumping out munitions, siege weapons, gyrocopters et al is good.
8 is better.

Do you know what being trained by a hero means? If it's a single action, that's a little expensive. If it's "Until we reach a certain level", that's a hell of a lot more attractive, and something I'd go for.

Click to shrink...

The only thing we have to compare it to is bringing the specialists in to train the Watch, and that was 'up to a certain level of proficiency.'

Are you sure 4 favor is "learn the special thing of the hold" and not "your weird magic will be tolerated, manling"? Cause I though it was the second, and Belegar's trust in us and our magic is why it's free in K8P.

Click to shrink...

No idea, since we've never asked Boney how it works. 'Walking into a Dwarf Hold and doing magical research' sounds like the former to me, but who knows.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

If it were confirmed that we could do incremental improvements to the weapon then I'd be all for starting small, but from a position of sheer skinflintedness I don't want to waste a single favor more than we have to, and that means spending big the first time; feel free to make jokes at my expense for that logic, if you disagree.

Click to shrink...

There's also the fact that getting a powerful weapon will almost certainly pay for its self any way in allowing to kick some serious ass where needed.

Which is exactly why I said previously to research one. Make people forget about a person/creature killed with it for some period of time... a day is horrifyingly effective, but an hour or even ten minutes can mess people up pretty bad. Its not that far off from mindhole really. Instead of one person forgetting you forever its a person being forgotten for a bit. Its completely in the Ulgu wheelhouse, particularly if it requires the death not to be seen.

A sword for infiltration fits the MC's build perfectly. The spell (even if of limited AoE or restricted to a relatively short time period) is hilarious in line with how she operates in the dark.

Click to shrink...

That would be cool but can't you see how many actions such a thing would take to pull off? you're talking about a massive enchantment effect for a spell tha tdoesn't remotely work that way we'd need to spend a dizzying array of actions that we could use elsewhere. Or we could spend a chunk of dwarven rep for a runic weapon that lets us mulch our enemies from the get go.

Yeah, it's kind of... both annoying and terrifying. We've managed to avoid miscasts.

But all our main examples of miscasts in the quest have been of the Well'p, You're Fucked scale.

We are not Sigmar. We are not a Barbarian Warrior Hero. We are a mage.

Frankly put, I would feel it a waste if we got such a hugely-expensive magic item! Because it would be chained to little ol' us. Rather than being wielded by some Warrior Hero, who would be going out there and doing Warrior Hero Things. If we got such an item, I would feel ashamed and wincing at the very idea, because Mathilde would be going around with a relic on her hip that would be better fit on a Thane's or an Ironbreaker's or a Slayer's hip.

That's another major thing that is getting to me on a gut level, really.

Super-powerful magic melee weapons should be things that Warrior Lords have, and want to have, rather than mages.

... I think that we have just grown too used to all those WHF quests where you are a Bretonnian Knight or an Elector Count; where having or desiring to have awesome armor and weapons is natural and normal.

Such that players feel conditioned to want those things in a game where we're a short Stirland peasant of a mage. ><

I mean...

Note how people are bringing up things like Warbosses and Dragons and shit. As "You have to be prepared for this. What're you gonna do if you meet this and you aren't prepared, huh? What then? Do you want us to die?" As if that shit's normal. As if to not plan and expect such things is crazy and dangerous. As if it would be crazier to adjust your decisions, actions and playing style to avoid such combat situations.

Click to shrink...

Actually given the way most of the weapon enchantments work, Sigmar is the least likely to benefit from them. These weapons have the greatest change in impact in the hands of people that aren't demi godling barbarians running around with muscles you could shred granite on. A weapon that automatically wounds isn't much of a game changer in the hands of a guy that already hits like a runaway freight trait, because it doesn't meaningfully change what he can do. granted the D3 wounds on Sighammer is useful regardless.

The whole point of getting a super powerful weapon is that it allows you to do damage on that level with out having muscles for days.

Garlak we're in Karak Eight Peaks one of the actions we're intending to do is to scout the other peaks, we could easily run into shit like Dragons, Warbosses and other crazy shit and all it takes is for us to flub a stealth roll or get punked by an enemy wizard to lose stealth and we may HAVE to deal with those kind of targets. Even if we don't wouldn't you want the ability to just go "i've got this guy right where I want him" and end one of the biggest threats in K8P with strategically placed runic weapon from the shadows instead of having more dwarven lives and such lost to a grand battle?

 

[Karugus]

Favours compound.

Say Belebro has 50 Dwarf Favour to call on. Durin has 10. Skaroki has 10. Mathilde has 15.

Well, those guys all have their own ideas about what to spend Favour on, including stashing it for a rainy day. But suppose Belebro authorizes three factories, Durin authorizes one, and Skaroki authorizes one.

5 factories pumping out munitions, siege weapons, gyrocopters et al is good.
8 is better.

Click to shrink...

Ah, so it is just Empire Quest logic where we're somehow obligated to invest our personal good will into our polity rather than trick out our protagonist for the sake of big number power. I'd be all for it in an actual empire quest but I know a number of voters want anything but that. And I'd be lying if I said the adventure aspect of things here wasn't a huge appeal myself.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Please do not snipe at other threadgoers.

 

[BioWolf]

How would they know? The Empire barely knows we exist. And if your worried about that, the belt and the seed are both already super good.

Click to shrink...

Your argument here is that the super relic won't paint a target because we already have super relics

 

[chocolote12]

First of all, I'd like to apologize if any of my posts have seemed heated to others. That wasn't my intention, and I'd like to think that this discussion hasn't stepped over the civil side of the line (though the pace of it might have imbued it with a frantic energy). Sorry if I've been causing any trouble.

Super-powerful magic melee weapons should be things that Warrior Lords have, and want to have, rather than mages.

Click to shrink...

I think that this is where we diverge. Mathilde is as worthy as a Slayer. She's as fighty as a Thane. She's a knight, and she does go out, and she does do honorable battle and stuff, and she is brave and willing to dive into combat head first, as a character trait, beyond any sort of combat min-maxing or quester proclivities. When our Elector Count went down we stood over his body, took up his fancy magic sword, and starting annihilating those skeletons like something out of an action movie.

A mage as a person in a robe who doesn't fight with a sword is a thing in this setting, but it's not what Mathilde is; it hasn't been since we decided that if we were going to go swording we'd be using one longer than we are tall. In addition to everything else she is, Mathilde is a worthy warrior.

 

[Nix's Warden]

Yeah, it's kind of... both annoying and terrifying. We've managed to avoid miscasts.

But all our main examples of miscasts in the quest have been of the Well'p, You're Fucked scale.

Click to shrink...

Can't forget Mitalida misscast before the quest started and summoned up a demon that hunted her through mirrors for seven years.

But yeah, all those terrible miss-casts, are from casting Battle Magic as far as I'm aware, which BoneyM has said repeatedly is at best a coinflip of going off safely. Remember Panoramia said her worst misscast before is that her hand got stuck in a claw shape for like 3 minutes.

 

[Robotninja]

If we are going to be working for Dwarves, we should get an expert to train us about Skaven and Greenskins to help us infiltrate and murder and sabotage them.

 

[DarkLight140]

When it comes to item commission sizes, I think I'd like to go poetic on them. If you recall, in-character we didn't spend "15 favors" on the belt, we spent "the Drakenhof campaign's favors". They came out to about 15, and we got a belt with a picture of the mountain on it. It's not named yet, but I imagine that when we do name it the obvious choice is something like Remembrance of Drakenhof.

Likewise, we just got a breakdown of categories:

[Joined the Expedition: +1]
[Battle of Und-Uzgar: +2]
[Battle of the East Gate: +4]
[Battle of Karag Lhune: +12]
[Battle of Karag Nar: +5]
[Battle of the Citadel: +8]
[Finished the Expedition: +3]

Click to shrink...

So favor expenditures to me would be best framed in terms of these lines, which then become the name of the item. We want something runefang-ish, we spend our Karag Lhune favors and call it Branul Lhune, which if I've got the Khazalid right is "the art of cleverness in moonlight", or to someone who knows our deeds, "Shenanigans in Karag Lhune". If we want something earthing rod-ish, let's say it'll cost us four favors, maybe we combine the Joined the Expedition and Finished the Expedition values and get something with a unity or journeying motif.

We can of course pile together massive numbers of favors in whatever combinations we please, but that seems empty of flavor and meaning. If we commission a cool item I want it to be something that we take advantage of all the excellent flavor materials which this quest has provided to come up with something that easily lends itself to writing up as something we can love.


On a slightly different but related topic, @BoneyM, there's a lot of dwarf favor flying around on the other humans who have chosen to settle in Karak Eight Peaks, right? Could you give an estimate of their dwarf rep- I know that they're not using the system but I want to get an idea of the typical dwarf opinion of their new human settlers is with something that we understand reasonably well as a reference point. Do they all have 4 point minimums for Joined/Finished the Expedition, or is Mathilde credited more favor due to joining and being more capable? Is Hypothetical Undumgi Soldier getting about 1 favor per fight, or less? Is some of their favor gain already spent because they were paid cash money, given quality weapons, and then offered steady jobs?

Of course, perhaps the average soldier (and mercenary at that) doesn't have as good a sense of what a favor economy looks like and how to leverage it like Mathilde, who was trained to think in those terms. I'm wondering if it would be worth Mathilde's time and effort to talk them through leveraging their favor collectively in order to get significant items- a magical unit banner, for example, would do a lot for their combat prowess and serve as a symbol of unity and point of pride to bind them together socially.

 

[ichypa]

To Dwarves, the story of Karak Eight Peaks is pretty much going to be about Belegar, Kragg, Mathilde Weber, and a bunch of other people.

Click to shrink...

Belegar, Kragg, and Mathilde totally just siloed the whole thing, and everyone else was just there to set up shop afterwards.

We got through with minimal actual vietnaming. It happened really fast.

Click to shrink...

Was more like mountain blitzkrieg, really.

And I'm sorry I trust other people to leverage their own role in this campaign and be competent. I guess I just took that 'This is not an empire quest' tag seriously.

Click to shrink...

Wait, is that what that tag means? I've always been so confused, because for the most part it does take place in the Empire, you know?

 

[Karugus]

Wait, is that what that tag means? I've always been so confused, because for the most part it does take place in the Empire, you know?

Click to shrink...

I'm always assumed it was a dig/reminder against our natural tendency to go a civ-building/empire building.

 

[spiritualatheist]

Note how people are bringing up things like Warbosses and Dragons and shit. As "You have to be prepared for this. What're you gonna do if you meet this and you aren't prepared, huh? What then? Do you want us to die?" As if that shit's normal. As if to not plan and expect such things is crazy and dangerous. As if it would be crazier to adjust your decisions, actions and playing style to avoid such combat situations.

Click to shrink...

We have already and will continue to seek out enemy leaders for assassination. So far those leaders have been poorly equipped, but we cannot rely on that continuing to be true. Best to invest in being able to keep doing our job efficiently, rather than relying on catching warbosses without magic gear. And Battle Magic is never going to be a reliable assassination tool.

 

[Necratoid]

Kragg made our fifteen favor belt; presumably if we want something on the same scale, but for a weapon, it should take him about the same effort (so a few weeks from the most magical good dwarf on the planet, but they aren't weeks taken out of our schedule or anything).

Click to shrink...

They are actually weeks taken out of the schedule of said 'most magical good dwarf on the planet'. The one mainly sticking around because he is bickering with his frienemy... he isn't making a thing on the road, while traveling with MC... he'd be handing over several pounds of freaking grommel to make a runic greats sword here. 20+ favors is grommel territory. (Okay another lesser super metal could be swapped in, but still.)

Basically rather greedy and I'm not sure people are truly considering how comically attention grabbing such a thing would be... before its pointed out Kragg made it.

5-8 point gets you a excellent if not epic great sword... 20+ going to attract full on duelist on a Quest to MC.

Also, you know... the 'showing up to explain the 14000 gold gained by someone under a vow of poverty with Kragg made grommel, runed great sword' thing. That kind of thing makes you 'end up having to drag around an one of the Empire's IRS agents everywhere' level of attention. While that would be hilarious in concept its kind of the premise for a different thread.

 

[Guile]

First of all, I'd like to apologize if any of my posts have seemed heated to others. That wasn't my intention, and I'd like to think that this discussion hasn't stepped over the civil side of the line (though the pace of it might have imbued it with a frantic energy). Sorry if I've been causing any trouble.

Click to shrink...

I think people are just extra nervous because Squishy's nosing around lately.

We all obviously care about Mathilde and know our plan for her is the best one, but nobody's really at the point of slinging insults.

 

[Mopman43]

A mage as a person in a robe who doesn't fight with a sword is a thing in this setting, but it's not what Mathilde is; it hasn't been since we decided that if we were going to go swording we'd be using one longer than we are tall. In addition to everything else she is, Mathilde is a worthy warrior.

Click to shrink...

It's not like she's alone in that; plenty of wizards out there with swords, plenty of beatsticks that can do magic.