I'm sure she's got some around.
Fair enough. My point ultimately is that there is so much wiggle room it could mean anything, and if that goes for an english prophecy, it would certainly apply to one in Eltharin.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Strictly speaking I don't think he even needs to - Vargheists seem like they'd almost certainly work for the "army of beasts" clause.
Weirdly, the Bright College bucks the trend by having a prophecy about a woman who will be the greatest Bright Wizard ever or something.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Mandred, son-of-Heidi, not Mannfred, son-of-Vlad.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mandred will be the Prince of Reikland, so he'll have the Imperial Zoo to cover the "raise an army of terrible beasts" part. The real hard part for him to fit, if the army is the Imperial Zoo, is the 'learned in the darkest arts' bit, given that everyone will be making sure he doesn't do dark magic once he gets introduced to the Colleges.
I've said this before, but Nagash is a twisted mirror of sorts to Malekith:
However, the Prophecy of Demise is about Elves specifically - Caledor was gifted with the prophecy the moment Aenarion drew the Sword of Khaine. It's about a tragedy that will happen to them specifically, even if we don't know much about it beyond the bit of the dark king, so it'd be weird for Nagash to be the dark king instead of the one who will kill the dark king.
But there's definitely something to be said about Eltharin words typically having several meanings. While Nagash doesn't literally fit the "Steel will be his skin and fire will be his blood" bit, that could also translate as "He will be outwardly resolute and stoic but burn with hatred/passion on the inside", or whatever.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
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- She/Her
Oh. Yes, those are a bit different.
Though the fact that I could immediately get Mandred confused with another candidate does say something about just how vague this prophecy is.
Though the fact that I could immediately get Mandred confused with another candidate does say something about just how vague this prophecy is.
Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"One claims a male witch will one day taint the pristine flows of Ice magic, changing it forever."
-All we have (That I am aware of) on said Prophecy, PG 46 Realm of the Ice Queen
It never actually went anywhere because End Times were atrocious to everybody attention wise except the Empire and Warriors of Chaos (because market share) (Me, bitter, never). Being something of a contrarian, I choose to believe that rather than the bleak figure of doom the Ice Witches portend he's going to save, variously, Kislev/the World, depending on how I feel at that particular moment.
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So, I have been doing a futile 'try to salvage stuff from the End Times' type project lately, and one of the things I do like is the idea that Teclis was trying to fulfill the prophecy (but twist it so that it worked out 'well') with himself as the firstborn son of noble blood and Malekith as the Dark King by making Malekith into the Aqshy Incarnate. But that didn't happen, as the Dark King wasn't Malekith, it was Tyrion.
Edit: on -> one
Edit: on -> one
Semi-awake thought: Are any of the Waystone members non-combatants?
Presumably we will at some point want to either retrieve stolen Waystones or remove gribblets who are sitting where we want to put Waystones. And while we would undoubtedly want a small army asmeatshields backup, the assembled Waystone members should be a formidable force. But is there any we wouldn't want to invite along to a battle?
Presumably we will at some point want to either retrieve stolen Waystones or remove gribblets who are sitting where we want to put Waystones. And while we would undoubtedly want a small army as
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Sarvoi possibly? Or maybe Aksel, to some degree.
Don't think so otherwise.
It's come up before, but while we definitely could make an amazing adventuring party out of this crew, we definitely don't want to risk any of their lives and cause horrible diplomatic issues. I think us getting a runelord killed might just unbreak the dwarf favor scale lol.
But more specifically, Baba Niedzwenka, while undoubtedly still highly capable, is weaker away from her home territory, so I probably wouldn't want to take chances with her.
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Well, weaker compared to how scary she is when at home. But from the way she laughed about teaching Laurelorn a lesson, it seems like she still has enough strength to at least consider it feasible under certain circumstances to throw down with an army of Elves in their home turf in her 'weakened' state.
Edit: that is, even in her weakened state, I don't think she is one of the 'squishies' of our hypothetical adventuring party.
Second edit: unless we investigate people a lot more, I'm not sure Mathilde would even have an accurate guess as to who would be 'a squishy'. Like, depending on how his research has gone, Hatalath might be an incredibly squishy scholar type who can only do powerful magic in laboriously pre-prepared settings. Or, he could have been training to 1v1 Malekith this whole time. And Sarvoi could be just an academic lecturer type, or he could be 'a well rounded Elf' and so be casually martially omnicompetent or a Hekartian in the sense of being good at academics *and* battlemagic. And Aksel could be a ~ high priest of Haletha in the sense of having political power and preserving historical knowledge in the Hedgewise, or he could be one in the sense of 'she gave us these gifts to take back the Forest of Shadows from the Darkness, and I am never without axes'.
Third edit: And Thorek in the End Times survives solo vs Neferata (one of the greatest swordmasters in the setting) and a coven of her highest handmaidens for a surprisingly long time, doing hand to hand hammering and blasts from his Anvil of Doom while also doing runework to try and activate the Gateway of Valaya. So like, he *might* be a squishy, but he also could be a good deal harder than Mathilde.
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Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hm.
There's a niggle there, which is "Tyrion is the counterpart to Malekith, the one who inherited everything that was good in Aenarion--his desire to protect the good, beautiful, the pure, if not entirely without the possibility of corruption, as Aenarion himself was corrupted." It's kind of one of the narrative throughlines, one of those small scale POV things.
On the other hand, that does leave the possibility of Malekith also reflecting Aenarion one last time and "returning the Widowmaker and dying in the process after coming to his senses in some way, just way, way, way too late."
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I mean, in End Times they just ignored that entire throughline. Though also, when you actually look at their respective lives, that throughline doesn't really hold up. Like, Tyrion really doesn't care about who he hurts or even bringing Ulthuan into another civil war, and he is personally charismatic and martially gifted enough that he has been able to get away with a *lot* of stuff and build a following despite his supreme selfishness and reckless disregard - he can't really have been said to inherit all the good in Aenarion. Teclis basically has to constantly clean up after him to protect him (and the rest of Ulthuan) from the consequences of his actions - or at least to kick the can down the road a bit. And likewise, Malekith's early life (before he had millennia of people he trusted working to destroy him) showed a capable leader who cared for those he lead and who was able to forge connections with the Dwarves.
I do like the idea that Teclis was handed a plan by Lileath, and tried to twist it to fuck over fewer people, and it blew up in his face because some of his foundational assumptions were wrong, hence Tyrion ending up as the Avatar of Khaine and shacking up with Morathi, as he was the Dark King candidate and Teclis cleaned up after him and enabled him all his life rather than helping him to not be that.
Edit: that is, if he wanted to twist things to work out better, in my view of things, he would have tried to make Tyrion the Aqshy Incarnate after he became the Avatar of Khaine rather than doing the convoluted plan with killing Tyrion's daughter and then Tyrion and then shattering the heartgem of the Everqueen to bring him back, and not made Malekith an Incarnate at all but instead helped him to walk through the fires of Asuryan and become an actual Chosen of Asuryan, so that he could take off the armour and get some healing and learn to direct his anger at the people who fucked him over in the first place rather than taking his feelings out on the Druchii (who were basically his stress toys for the last thousands of years). And he would have left Nagash out and instead helped someone like Elspeth von Draken to be the Incarnate of Death, getting the support of however many Death Gods that hated Necromancy he could to fence Nagash out of the running. And he would have not made himself an Incarnate at all, he would have tried to keep himself as an anchor-point of Qhaysh. And he would have made one of the Dwarven Heroes the Hysh Incarnate (Hysh is the Wind of Stone and Purity, not just Light). Anyway, that is enough fixfic musing for one edit note.
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Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
- Location
- Ruritania Illinois
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Bluntly, I'm not much a fan of giant fuck-up Tyrion nor how latter Asur Lore wasted that throughline. It was just yet another example of Eldar Brain causing GW to throw away interesting, novel, and compelling character notes in favor of that sweet, sweet 40k money and ending up with neither at all.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Speaking of Mandred we might want to check in there at some point to see how the whole magic thing is being handled so far.
Also since Mandred really likes swords and knights, and personally I think Azyr is the best choice of wind for him... how do we feel about introducing him to Hubert at some point?
Also since Mandred really likes swords and knights, and personally I think Azyr is the best choice of wind for him... how do we feel about introducing him to Hubert at some point?
It would be weird for the Avatar of Khaine to shack up with Morathi, considering that Khaine has told both Aenarion and Malekith to kill Morathi.
Look, I personally think Azyr is cool as fuck, and I know it's probably the single best Wind for a Wizard Elector Count to be attuned to. However, as part of Mathilde's decision-making process, can we truly support Mandred becoming a Celestial in good conscience? Like, just think about how smug the Celestials will be if they can boast about having the damn heir apparent among their number. They'd be even more insufferable than Mathilde already thinks they are!
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's only been a year and a half since Heidi came to talk to us. While I expect that we'll get a social action (voted for or external) when he officially joins the Colleges, he's not even nine years old yet; too young to become an Apprentice. So maybe in a couple more turns?
I do agree that Celestial is a likely college for him to go to, assuming he has aptitude for magic as a whole and doesn't turn out to have a very specific affinity for a particular Wind. Bright and Jade also seem like reasonable possibilities. As for introducing him to Hubert -- eh, maybe? Not sure Heidi will want her son to take as a role model a devout Ulrican, given that Mandred is being raised publicly Sigmarite and privately Ranaldian. And obviously her wishes about the kid's upbringing are what matter, rather than Mathilde's.
I believe he should be turning nine this very turn, so either this turn or next would be a good opportunity to see how Heidi has prepared him for the Colleges and what her—and maybe his—preference is for choice of Wind. And maybe also sneak our opinion on the matter in there too.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm inclined to think even if some would really rather not have to and don't really specialize in it (Sarvoi, I'm looking at you), they're all perfectly capable of using magic to eliminate enemies.
The bigger thing to consider when wondering whether to invite people to potentially violent environments is that their respective nations do have their own problems to be concerned about and helping to deal with someone's problems before your own can really chafe. Mordheim, for instance - it's a deeply cursed location that's purely the Empire's problem. Even if it has a nexus it's not really an urgent problem at all, the Empire has already marched on it before. It'd be better not to examine it unless necessary, but if we did have to, it'd be ideal to only bring the Empire members of the group.
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NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
What massive imminent issues are Sarvoi and Hatalath working on?
The Kislevites sure, but the others I'm not sure I see, I guess maybe Thorek,l.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We also might be able to spin a quid pro quo arrangement, or at least make clear that we regard any such problems as general problems for the group of people we've assembled to handle, depending on the access we're granted and if we're informed of them. (Making it clear that any participation is strictly voluntary and they can and should bring such matters to our attention would also help.)
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I didn't say they were massive imminent issues, just that they had problems. They are here because the topic of Waystones in general benefits everyone. But while they understand that the Empire may benefit first (setting up waystones and tributaries in its provinces) before they go back home with all the knowledge they've gathered, any hour they spend actually fighting a direct problem of the Empire is an hour they could be using to either teach others magic (Sarvoi), research or create anti-gribblies countermeasures (Hatalath) or hammer out new magical tools and weapons for others to use (Thorek).
It goes without saying the Karaz Ankor has an excess of enemies and Grudges, but Laurelorn also has Beastmen, Forest Goblins and miscellaneous gribblies to worry about IIRC.
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