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Yeah crazy.
Why would anyone ever want a ruler to follow a aspect of a god who's main role is protection of the weak from tyranny.
We have a somewhat positively skewed view of Ranald due to playing as Mathilde.
Ranald the Protector is also the aspect of the vigilante, the angry mob, the revolutionary trying to overthrow the rulers. That's a weird aspect for a ruler to be following.
 
When we get to the point of actually trying to make Waystones they could probably provide a lot of help, if they've reached the point of leaving their Karak more often.
No. We have discussed this, Karak Vlag may have a lot of people that can make glorified lightbulb, but they only know the least of the secrets of runelore. Unless the runic magic on Waystones is so simple a fresh, barely toddling apprentice would be enough, they will be of no help. And i can almost guarantee it won´t be that, otherwise they would not be half the mystery that they are.
 
Yeah crazy.
Why would anyone ever want a ruler to follow a aspect of a god who's main role is protection of the weak from tyranny.

Ranald the Protector is the god of freedom from tyranny, and a patron to rabble-rousers in favour of changes in government in pursuit of said freedom. Every year tax collectors are murdered in His name, and many revolts against Imperial authority have been dedicated to Him.
Ranald is eternally on the knife edge between 'frowned upon' and 'actively suppressed'. Admitting that you worship him is not likely to make you friends.

And finally, there is the most thoroughly and enthusiastically suppressed face of Ranald: Ranald the Protector. He is the God of Freedom, of defending the defenceless, assisting the poor, and standing up for the rights of the common man. But when taken to extremes, he is also the God of revolution, equality, and democracy, and as such is a constant danger to the status quo of the Empire. He is worshipped by rabble-rousers, democrats, cells of would-be revolutionaries and groups of brigands that steal from the wealthy to give to the impoverished. These worshippers are much of why the worship of Ranald is outright forbidden in Bretonnia, and viewed with so much suspicion elsewhere.

Ranald the Protector is an Idealist who despises everything the Empire stands for, and will not hesitate to acts of extremism to overthrow it.

Honestly, it can actually be argued that worshipping Ranald is a violation of the Articles:

1. The first obedience of every Magister must be to the ideals and laws of Sigmar's Holy Empire of which these Articles form a part; then to he who is rightfully elected Emperor of Sigmar's Holy Empire; then to the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic; then to the laws and ideals of their Order; then to the Patriarch of their Order; then to the authorities that each Magister may be required to serve in the course of his duties; then to other superiors within their Orders.

Ranald the Protecter is in direct opposition to the "Ideals and Laws of Sigmar's Holy Empire". By worshipping Him, by obeying His commandments, and by heeding His lessons, we are in direct violation of the First Article, because Ranald teaches us that the Ideals and Laws of the Empire are illegitimate, and the Articles commands us to uphold those Ideals and Laws as sacred.

We can not be loyal to both—To be a Ranaldian is to betray the Empire, and to be a Magister is to betray Ranald.

And yet, we are, because we are a Grey Wizard, and dancing on the line between two extremes is literally the the metaphor our soul is made out of.

Also because the Deciever thinks it's the funniest thing He's ever seen. She turned herself into a living contradiction.
 
A Ranaldian Celestial Wizard could figure out a way to make it work. The discussion about the intersection between Ranald and the Lore of Heavens was in the specific context of Mathilde commissioning luck-based enchantments.
IIRC it was that Ranald would be upset that Mathilde would turn to someone else for her future manipulation needs, as if he isn't good enough.

At the time, people (me included) speculated that Azyr!Mathilde would be fine using luck spells and her own enchantments for herself, but shouldn't turn to those overly smug Ulgu guys for sneaking magic when she's got her pal Ranald helping her.
 
I'm reminded of a story from the Vietnam war about a group of American troops ordered to wipe out a civilian village. They got halfway through before an American helicopter landed between them and pointed its guns at the troops, saved half a village. A village filled with noncombatants that aided and abetted the ruinous communism once ruled by the demon prince Stalin (killer of millions of innocent).
This is not the thread for this.
Tyrion physically superb but with people being extremely nervous about what's going on inside his head.

Is that a thing Elves are actually suspicious about? I didn´t read much of the elf source materials.
 
Are they strategically significant enough to the prevention of nuclear war to justify genociding a few towns? What if they were asked nicely to stop? What if they didn't trust those who asked? What if the wires were sold for ships used to prevent nuclear war? How statistically significant are phone/internet wires for nuclear prevention compared to tributary trees for chaos prevention? If they were the wrong/right wires?

Should we slay the Karaz Anchor for not heeding Dum's warning and preventing chaos? What about the leaders? They could have halted chaos far more than Nordland ever helped it if they acted more wisely. Much fewer deaths necessary than the villages too.

Could Mathilde have personally non-lethally relocated those villages? Could the eonir have or would it have not make as much of a statement?

You can call the slaughter of noncombatants twisted wisdom or unfortunate necessity, I call it madness.
I didn't call it anything, and you're making up quite a few other arguments I never made.

Lovely strawman you're arguing with here.
 
American equivalent is killing illegal immigrants for chopping down phone wires for rubber. Yes those wires are all cool and junk, but seal team six would look like murder-happy wire cultists for depopulating a few towns over it
I'm reminded of a story from the Vietnam war about a group of American troops ordered to wipe out a civilian village. They got halfway through before an American helicopter landed between them and pointed its guns at the troops, saved half a village. A village filled with noncombatants that aided and abetted the ruinous communism once ruled by the demon prince Stalin (killer of millions of innocent).
They shed tears for the innocent people they slaughtered? This changes everything.

How many more thousands of miles of carefully crafted skirmishing land and how many more thousands of elite hundred to thousand year old skirmishers and how many more archmages older than the white tower that have spent milenia researching backed by the only safe city in the entire world overflowing with citizens do they need to be a "hyperpower."

Many illegal immigrants don't want to join as citizens, they want to get more money and leave, like Nordland. I heard more border control mostly keeps them in instead of getting money and leaving.

You're either deliberately trying to antagonize people with sarcasm and extremely politically charged comparisons, or you're giving absolutely no thought at all to how your arguments come across. Either way, you need to reconsider the way you're posting in this thread.
 
Ranald the Protector is an Idealist who despises everything the Empire stands for, and will not hesitate to acts of extremism to overthrow it.

Honestly, it can actually be argued that worshipping Ranald is a violation of the Articles:



Ranald the Protecter is in direct opposition to the "Ideals and Laws of Sigmar's Holy Empire". By worshipping Him, by obeying His commandments, and by heeding His lessons, we are in direct violation of the First Article, because Ranald teaches us that the Ideals and Laws of the Empire are illegitimate, and the Articles commands us to uphold those Ideals and Laws as sacred.

We can not be loyal to both—To be a Ranaldian is to betray the Empire, and to be a Magister is to betray Ranald.

And yet, we are, because we are a Grey Wizard, and dancing on the line between two extremes is literally the the metaphor our soul is made out of.

Also because the Deciever thinks it's the funniest thing He's ever seen. She turned herself into a living contradiction.
Keep in mind that the Cult of Ranald is extremely decentralized, and different Cults have different takes on His facets and His strictures. Yes, when taken to extremes the Protector is incompatible with loyality to the Empire, but does the Grey College understanding of Ranald go to those extremes? I think we don't know much about how the Grey College's worship of Ranald looks like, but I think we can get some hints from the saints Mathilde is aware of:
Because of how unstructured the Cult of Ranald is, they tend to only be know to the local Ranaldian community. Mathilde only knows about Saint Grey, Saint Grey, and Saint Grey. Saint Grey fought in the Great War Against Chaos, and introduced the worship of Ranald to the nascent Grey Order. Saint Grey planted the idea in Grom the Paunch's mind that he'd find better fights outside the Empire. And Saint Grey rode nonstop across the Empire to bring warnings to Journeymen of Dieter IV's outlawing of the Colleges.
The first Saint Grey fought against Chaos, and the second against Greenskins. That doesn't have much to do with the Protector if you think of the Protector only as the patron of rabble rousers, but it does if you take a more broad interpretation of the Protector as defender of the weak and innocent in general, as Mathilde clearly does. Only the third Saint Grey fought against oppression, but the oppressor in that case is Deiter rather than the Empire in general, and the act of resistance wasn't assassinating government officals or anything, it was warning members of a persecuted group about oncoming persecution. I think it's entirely possible to have an understanding of the Protector that is compatible with loyality to the ideals of the Empire, and I think the famousely loyal Grey Order is a place where you're likely to find such an understanding.
Considering how simple some of the symbols used so far apparently are, and the fact that Thorek only said some runesmithing techniques were used in improving some of said non dwarven symbols, I'd say that it seems quite possible to me.
You're thinking of the Waystone Rune, that's different from Runic tributaries (which we haven't developed and which we don't know for sure are possible). You are correct that Rhunkits might be capable of carving those:
"It's a very minor effect for magical runes, but it's simple enough that it could be done by any competent stoneworker with a grasp of basic magical theory."
Thorek noted that that dwarves of Karak Vlag are highly competent stoneworkers, so I guess the only question is if Rhunkits count as having a grasp of basic magic theory. There's also the question of the runesmithing techniques which were used to improve the Rune's effects - Thorek mentioned them in the first meeting of the project but not while studying the Rune, so I wonder if they are still known at all.
 
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I honestly dislike the whole Protector argument, I don't think the Protector is naturally against the Empire, I think people with legitimate grievances against the empire would naturally be drawn to the Protector as their patron.

If you believe the Empire is Tyrannical you would go to the god who acts against tyranny.

It's noted that Politicians often go to the Protector too.

Honestly if the stance of Ranald was that the Empire had to be torn down I seriously doubt he'd be anywhere near as accepted as he is.

He'd be as hunted as Khaine or Stromfels. The Sigmarites would be burning Ranaldites at the stake.
 
I honestly dislike the whole Protector argument, I don't think the Protector is naturally against the Empire, I think people with legitimate grievances against the empire would naturally be drawn to the Protector as their patron.
Protector is not anything. Its a concept that people rally behind. But the fact of the matter is that majority of those people are against Empire because that concept resonates with that sort of people the most, and that is what matters a lot when you are talking about gods.
Honestly if the stance of Ranald was that the Empire had to be torn down I seriously doubt he'd be anywhere near as accepted as he is.
He´s as accepted as he is because he doesn´t push it directly and because he has other, more acceptable faces. And its really hard to proscribe god of luck. And As accepted as he is is "almost proscribed, but not quite there yet" and "priests don´t get invites to The Conclave, they just find their way in anyway".
 
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I'm inclined to think the best option for Mandred as far as Ranald goes is to prioritize either the Gambler or the Deceiver.

The Gambler is not just about luck, but also the common man. While princes are not common men at all, Mandred could still be deeply personable and care for his subjects' well-beings without leaning into following The Protector excessively. This would also be very ironic, which is part of the Gambler's spheres.

The Deceiver would obviously align with hiding his faith from basically everyone. And while he is associated with conmen and charlatans, he is also a patron of spies, which is sort of a good fit for someone who will likely be involved in the horrible battlefield known as politics.

Anything more detailed would really depend on how his relationship with Ranald develops, but it could be end up as something that works really well for his position.
 
Heidi seems to be doing rather well as the Empress despite being a Ranaldite and doesn't seem to want to tear the Empire apart.

Considering she's probably the one giving Mandred his ranaldian education, I've got little worry. Perhaps he'll want to change the empire to make it less tyranical and more democratic (perhaps a bit less Sigmarian) but I can't see that as a minus...
 
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Semi-awake thought: Are any of the Waystone members non-combatants
A line between combatants and non-combatants was fuzzy at best in period and it is bound to be much worse in Warhammer. But even then a bunch of high end Spellcasters, Anointed priest and Runelord all fall squarely into combatant part.

If you are talking about combat ability, well, it would take a lot of work for a wizard to not pick up anything useful for combat, Throrek is a named Lord in tabletop and Legendary Lord in TW, so we know he is a badass,. Aksel is probably the weakest, but then again, he is an Anointed priest of a goddess whose portfolio includes protection. So, while I don't think we should get the project into fights if we somehow do end up fighting, I would expect everyone present to be able to at least defend themselves.
 
too young to become an Apprentice
Is that actually a thing? I would expect safety issues to be a concern once someone starts touching the winds, regardless of their age, and getting them into a monowind environment to prevent dhar would be desirable.

Is Mandred even guaranteed to be a wizard? Isn't is possible to turn that towards priestly ends instead? Becoming a priest of ranald and hiding his magical abilities until he became emperor would be pretty hilariously gambler and deciever.
 
Is Mandred even guaranteed to be a wizard? Isn't is possible to turn that towards priestly ends instead? Becoming a priest of ranald and hiding his magical abilities until he became emperor would be pretty hilariously gambler and deciever.
He could be taught to wield the divine magic of Ranald, and cement even further the influence that your God will have over the potential future Emperor. But this might be the riskiest option of all, as while the Empress might be able to pass unnoticed as a worshipper of Ranald, a potential future Emperor himself would be under far greater scrutiny, possibly that of Sigmar Himself.

Heidi nods, slightly at first and then with more confidence. "You're right. If he's a Wizard, he's a Wizard. I can handle that, and so can Luitpold.
That was a possibility with some significant downsides, but Heidi seemed pretty convinced by Mathilde's arguments for him to become a college educated wizard, so I expect him to end up in one soon-ish.
 
I honestly dislike the whole Protector argument, I don't think the Protector is naturally against the Empire, I think people with legitimate grievances against the empire would naturally be drawn to the Protector as their patron.

If you believe the Empire is Tyrannical you would go to the god who acts against tyranny.

It's noted that Politicians often go to the Protector too.

Honestly if the stance of Ranald was that the Empire had to be torn down I seriously doubt he'd be anywhere near as accepted as he is.

He'd be as hunted as Khaine or Stromfels. The Sigmarites would be burning Ranaldites at the stake.

The Empire is a feudal state, it is by definition exploitative. Yes some of the tax it collects does towards fighting orcs and chaos, but some of it also goes to buying the Elector his new diamond encrusted chandelier and this is not corruption, it is how the state is supposed to work, it is rule by variably enlightened despot. That said Ranald is not, for the most part, a violent god so his cults are not as disruptive as Khaine or Stromfels, most of the people who serve him are thieves and conmen not revolutionaries
 
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