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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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AsuraAtlas said:
The problem is the knights can't find them. I definitely think Mathilde's scouting and windsight capabilities are enough to do that in the one month an AP represents.
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It's not like Bretonnia has no capable trackers, not even getting into the Damsels and the fact they can wield the lore of heavens (Divination) and the lore of beasts, but haven't had any success in years of effort. So is it possible Mathilde can manage it? Yes, but it doesn't strike me as even close to a guarantee,
 
Thomasfoolery said:
It's not like Bretonnia has no capable trackers, not even getting into the Damsels and the fact they can wield the lore of heavens (Divination) and the lore of beasts, but haven't had any success in years of effort. So is it possible Mathilde can manage it? Yes, but it doesn't strike me as even close to a guarantee,
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The problem is their capable trakers are all peasants who would get murdered by any chaos armored orc they might find. They do not have scouting elites worth a damn, unless one counts looking down from a pegasus.
 
DragonParadox said:
The problem is their capable trakers are all peasants who would get murdered by any chaos armored orc they might find. They do not have scouting elites worth a damn, unless one counts looking down from a pegasus.
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The fact that they haven't been able to narrow things down at all by following up on the area around murdered trackers is indicative. The fact that their casters that can literally cast divinations or transform into birds and try to follow the orcs back to wherever also have had no luck is even moreso. It really does not strike me as at all a sure thing Mathilde can manage it where they failed.

And again, even if it was I don't see a reason to spend an AP on doing so.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Stirland likes tributaries in Stirland, the Empire probably likes it as well, the Karaz Ankor probably does not give a damn and neither does Kiselv and they would probably be very unamused to hear we just took a three month sabbatical to go learn from elves get stabbed to death by Druchi and leave them holding the bag.
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Of course they wouldn't be happy. People like Mathilde. But given that tributary knowledge is now available, they could do that themselves, and people are in fact capable of functioning without Mathilde, so her death doesn't have to mean the end of the project.

And also, given that negotiations with Ulthuan are going to be important, going on a diplomatic mission there is perfectly project relevant.
 
Mopman43 said:
Just saying, the actual last time we tussled with a Chaos champion we bisected him twice.
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... I totally forgot that guy even existed for a second. Still, he almost ran away :V

That said, we faced him in extremely favourable circumstances, not only ambushing him, but ambushing him on friendly grounds with large back up and another order god running interference.

In this specific scenario, we would be risking tussling with such an enemy around Orks with unnaturally tough armor and sour disposition even by Ork standards. Its just really unnecessary risk for reward we can get through just doing the job we are already doing.

If people desperately want some adventure, i would be more predisposed to elfcation, which is a mystery box but at least offers something we won´t otherwise get.
 
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BurnNote said:
Of course they wouldn't be happy. People like Mathilde. But given that tributary knowledge is now available, they could do that themselves, and people are in fact capable of functioning without Mathilde, so her death doesn't have to mean the end of the project.

And also, given that negotiations with Ulthuan are going to be important, going on a diplomatic mission there is perfectly project relevant.
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The Karaz Ankor has nothing usable right now, rune-smiths can neither wrangle elementals nor invoke Haletha and the Eonir consider tributaries to be of relatively little significance per the head of Sarvoi's House, that is the two most knowledgeable parties. We also have no way to prove that our internship of Druchi stabbing will impact the will of the White Tower or the Phoenix King. We hope it will partly doe to a divine artifact no one else knows about.
 
This WoB was about us not being able to do the action as a Web-Mat action, but I think it says pretty well why Bretonnia might need Mathilde's help specifically:
Boney said:
If Bretonnian Knights can't find them, then they either have some way to know they're coming and avoid them, or they're hidden from mundane senses. So the straightforward approach requires searching with speed, stealth, and really good long-range Magesight. It's hard to see that as anything but a solo job for Mathilde.
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I don't think "Stealth" and "Really Good Long-Range Magesight" at Mathilde's level should really be expected to be in the Damsel's wheelhouse.
 
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Switching to a completely different subject, I am curious who in our friend circle will be the next one to have a child.

Edda was pregnant two years ago, but I don't actually know/remember how long Dwarven gestation time is. Surely their baby is born by now, right? I think I vaguely remember it already having been mentioned on screen.

Anton decided to adopt, but after being in a years long relationship with someone he at one point thought about marrying, he might do so after all. Marrying for love doesn't mean marrying for love at first sight.

Both Belegar and Roswita are ruling bachelor(ette)s and highly eligible. They lived a long time worried about what they'd be leaving to their children, but in both cases their fiefdoms are much more settled and secure now. Their advisors and family are probably nagging them about it.

Among all our Wizard friends I think Hubert is the only one who we know to be in a heterosexual relationship (if they didn't break up since we last saw them).
Wait, no. I forgot about Esbern and Seija. I assume the Ambers are no more celibate than the Jades.

There's nothing stopping Luitpold and Heidi from having a spare heir. Other than maybe Heidi herself.

Any other close acquaintance I'm not thinking of? I guess someone like the Hochlander might surprise us out of nowhere, but to be honest our relationship to him is such that he might already have a family and just never felt the need to tell us. Same goes for people like Francesco, or any of our ex Council colleagues I didn't yet mention (including those we worked with on war councils).
 
[X] Both

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Also, my inner OCD completionist doest like dipping out early, even if the gains are to be relatively minor.
 
Count me as another person against the Orc action at the moment.

Wodger said:
Is there a chance of Bretonnia joining the project after we get the first tributaries started and without doing the orc action?
I feel like they hinted at being more interested if we show results.
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Boney said:
Their words were 'perhaps we might be tempted'. That's not the sort of wording that implies you should come back to them the second you have anything at all.
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We don't need them magically at the moment, and I haven't seen* any arguments about there being major diplomatic or other benefits that we can reap that makes it worth it at this time. We can go back to them if we hit a rut or we generate more significant progress. Otherwise the AP can be better spent in any of the other innumerable demands on our time. Like Elfcation, or Apparitions, or Spell learning/creation etc.



*Although I have not read everything due to the fast thread movement.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Karaz Ankor has nothing usable right now, rune-smiths can neither wrangle elementals nor invoke Haletha and the Eonir consider tributaries to be of relatively little significance per the head of Sarvoi's House, that is the two most knowledgeable parties. We also have no way to prove that our internship of Druchi stabbing will impact the will of the White Tower or the Phoenix King. We hope it will partly doe to a divine artifact no one else knows about.
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The Karaz Ankor has a long standing alliance with this country that can deploy those. Two countries, actually, since Kiselv is also reasonably friendly to the dwarfs.

And of course a diplomatic mission isn't guaranteed success. But leaving aside the possibility that the shadow worries know something, they do have some influence. And it helps put her in a more favorable light. Going and killing things for people is pretty much the essence of Mathilde's diplomacy. Why would anyone doubt it could work? It's worked for all of them. Approving of someone does not require divine intervention, though it does help a lot. And hell, even if it totally fails, that also happens. Given that everyone involved in the project thinks at best the Asur are low-grade assholes, it wouldn't be a surprise. Half a year lost to a failed attempt at diplomacy is not a big deal.

I can understand not wanting the elfcation, or being doubtful of the use. But you're arguments here are, polity, exaggerated.
 
[X] Guard bypass

1: The gains on both are explicitly extremely marginal and I like the aesthetic on this one more

2: if we go for both we risk revolt from the Apparitions Cabal :V

3: Guard Bypass let's us use the training sword we commissioned

Also the entire idea behind this turn plan was finish swords, moving the goal post there for very little reason feels dishonest and also I'd really like to finish swords.
 
I view Elfcation as potential self improvement action (not guaranteed we learn anything at all but there is decent chance we will, and they are shadow warriors for a reason) with possible diplomatic inroads (very unlikely, but still possible).

GrimTheMad said:
1: The gains on both are explicitly extremely marginal and I like the aesthetic on this one more

2: if we go for both we risk revolt from the Apparitions Cabal :V
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I expect there will be flavour of situational benefits instead of flat bonus if we developed both, but that is acceptable (i would prefer both but understand people who don´t)
 
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Humbaba said:
Count me as another person against the Orc action at the moment.





We don't need them magically at the moment, and I haven't seen* any arguments about there being major diplomatic or other benefits that we can reap that makes it worth it at this time. We can go back to them if we hit a rut or we generate more significant progress. Otherwise the AP can be better spent in any of the other innumerable demands on our time. Like Elfcation, or Apparitions, or Spell learning/creation etc.



*Although I have not read everything due to the fast thread movement.
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Well they are the most skilled human users of Ghyan, Ghur and probably Azyr in the old world and they have literal divine backing of one of the most powerful and interventionist gods on said continent. That just makes them very talented, not necessarily good at Waystones, but someone has to be managing the stones in their kingdom, odds are they are doing a decent jo of it. Plus they have an in with the Asrai, something no other faction on the planet can boast... dubious as the boast may be. :V
 
Altom said:
Have to disagree with you here. While swords are not the primary weapons for imperial cavalry, they are a very popular sidearm and out of 4 main types (knights with lances, knights with other weapons, pistoliers and outriders) 3 can be expected to use the sidearm quite often. Lances can break or get stuck in bodies, pistols are one shot each and take a lot of time to reload and whatever contraption outruders use this day is extremly likely to be very poorly suited to melee.
On top of that, cavalry dismounting and fighting on foot is also a fairly common scenario, like in sieges or in forest fighting. Lastly, I am pretty sure duels are a thing in the Empire and they are very likely to be fought with swords. So, no, those skills, assuming they actually get them, would be quite useful for most of thise people.

Sorry for the wall, got a bit carried away.
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Outriders aren't nobles, lances can break or get stuck but the whole point of training with them is to prevent that, and pistoliers aren't supposed to get into shock combat, they're supposed to shoot people and then ride away to reload.

Like, yeah, there are going to be points where they use swords, but those will always be fallback options because swords are not great weapons, and generally speaking, in most combat you don't resort to your fallback weapons.
 
BurnNote said:
The Karaz Ankor has a long standing alliance with this country that can deploy those. Two countries, actually, since Kiselv is also reasonably friendly to the dwarfs.

And of course a diplomatic mission isn't guaranteed success. But leaving aside the possibility that the shadow worries know something, they do have some influence. And it helps put her in a more favorable light. Going and killing things for people is pretty much the essence of Mathilde's diplomacy. Why would anyone doubt it could work? It's worked for all of them. Approving of someone does not require divine intervention, though it does help a lot. And hell, even if it totally fails, that also happens. Given that everyone involved in the project thinks at best the Asur are low-grade assholes, it wouldn't be a surprise. Half a year lost to a failed attempt at diplomacy is not a big deal.

I can understand not wanting the elfcation, or being doubtful of the use. But you're arguments here are, polity, exaggerated.
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It is explicitly not a diplomatic mission, it is the Shadow Warriors, who are not liked by other Asur for their brutality, graciously allowing us to kill Druchi with them in the hopes of picking up some tricks. No one has promised us any rewards beyond that learning that observation, no one has even hinted at them. Trying to explain to a dwarf how this is totally a diplomatic mission which will impact the politics of Ulthuan is... unlikely to go well

So it's like you word for 99 days with the Rangers of Kadrin... and that is somehow going to make the High King change his mind on major policy.
 
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