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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
Dual sword styles would likely be much more useful, but the only ones you're even vaguely aware of are those of the Wardancers of Athel Loren and the Shadow-walkers of Nagarythe,
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Also, after we develop a shadow sword spell, we should go to Nagarythe for that sweet power stancing great swords style. :V
 
Snootleboop said:
I'm personally a bit confused about the pros and cons here, i was under the impression that the Rune of Superior Skill disabled magical weapons and effects on hit for several minutes, surely that would make double tap better against magic item using foes?
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pucflek said:
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@Boney ?

My first guess is it doesn´t disable them right as it hits them which means the enchantment still paries the blow before it is blocked, but this is very good point lol. Unless you are fighting Malekith i guess.
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The disabling happens after the strike, so a double tap would leave them with a broken weapon or shield and hit by the shrapnel thereof where guard bypass would leave them dead. Don't get me wrong, double-tap still leaves that person in an extremely bad position, but guard bypass is marginally better.

Shine said:
I know the native stat boni are utterly minuscule regardless, but why does studying the blade help Eike understand battle tactics and campaign strategy?
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You can think of it as a relic of the genre (CK2 later got a separate Prowess stat because of that very question), but my preferred answer is because it's Warhammer, where all skilled military leaders are also capable of kicking ass.

CeBrudras said:
I get that I am pretty much asking for additional, very marginally useful worldbuilding work but with Mathilde's super diverse environment it feels a bit sad to stop here. Johann's hypercompetent jock buddies in Laurelorn immediately come to mind, for example.
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Because double swording is for hicks.

No, really, it's the preferred armament of Asur Rangers, which are made up of Elves from the most rural and insular portions of Ulthuan. None of Laurelorn's settlers would have known the style but would have held the negative stereotypes about it.
 
Rafin said:
Okay then. When did Eike choose the Greatsword as her weapon? And why? Was it because she expected to be our Apprentice? Or just because she's a fan? She had Oma's support (obviously) and apparently either started or started earnestly in Altdorf, while in the Grey College. Meaning her Tilean style teacher came into the College on the regular.
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Eike spent three years in the Grey College before becoming our apprentice, that's probably enough time to get to 2/3 greatswording skill if she spent a decent amount of time on it and judging by the update it does seem that she puts in a decent amount of effort. I do think this is in imitation of Mathilde - she mentions going to the Carroburg Greatswords for teaching, just like Mathilde sought out the local Greatswords for training, and we know Eike was told about Mathilde's exploits by her grandmother.
 
pucflek said:
While this would still be a win, it would fail to accomplish our greater goals. If we cannot link to the vortex, then while we introduce something of a redundancy, the loss of the original waystones will still be almost as crippling a blow as it was before.
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We might be able to make the pseudo-Waystones connect to each other even if they are never allowed to access the existing network. Then we can just continue to replace fallen Waystones as long as there's at least one Waystone remaining between it and the nearest functional Nexus.

That said, part of the network's function is to lever the Vortex as a pull on all magic within it. So connecting is still preferable even if we manage to make the access-bypassing magic dumping as clean as possible.
henkalv said:
Wilhelmina sneakily makes Eike a better apprentice for Mathilde.
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I am actually hopeful that this happened on Eike's own initiative.

neutronium95 said:
Definitely leaning guard bypass as well. I really like the idea of developing a shadow sword spell that mimics the capabilities of the Rune of the Unknown, and the guard bypass would work much better with that than double tap.
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If we don't fiddle with its permeability during spell creation to make it tangible at will, the Shadow Sword will be useless for parrying, essentially set to auto-bypass. Either way it will probably need its own style, similar but not equal to Branarhune.

But if we do build in a permeability toggle, guard bypass will be much more useful to them. I'll be voting Both, because that's the kind of person I am. But if Both has no chance of winning, I'll probably vote guard bypass. Even if the imagery of double tap would look very awesome, in a brute force kind of way.

Boney said:
Because double swording is for hicks.
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This is just awesome.
 
Boney said:
Dual sword styles would likely be much more useful, but the only ones you're even vaguely aware of are those of the Wardancers of Athel Loren and the Shadow-walkers of Nagarythe, neither of which are currently accessible to you. So you press on and do your best to develop from scratch what you're sure they've already mastered.
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I think this may be a "subtle" hint to just go on the elfcation already.
 
I do think Double Tap is actually pretty fitting for Mathilde's Mathildeness just going right through the obstacle in front of her in a way no one would expect from a Grey Wizard. Guard bypass seems more like standard Grey wizard
 
Boney said:
But Oma was able to organize someone from Bergo Academy to train me in the basics of the spadone.
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In retrospect that makes a lot of sense. Wilhelmina's primary experience of Wizards is Mathilde. Her natural assumption would be that a Grey Wizard should be swinging a sword about and thus her granddaughter should get started on that early.

Before long you've move on to more skilled opponents, and find that while some of most skilled of the Undumgi and Ulrikadrin are able to develop counters to the technique, they're only able to do so after they're exposed to and defeated by it several times - a learning opportunity that you don't intend to offer to any of those who might find themselves on the wrong side of your blade. You're very pleased with yourself as you take notes and sketches of the drills you've developed.
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Wonder if we will get social options to go have sparing matches with some of the better combatants we know. See what they think of Mathy's style.

the double-tap would be better against those who depend on armour or raw endurance to withstand blows, while the guard bypass would be better against those few who may possess magical weapons or shields able to stand against Branulhune.
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Given Branulhune also has the Rune of Superior Skill and will shut-down magical weapons and shields the double-tap is logically the superior option for Mathilde.

That said I would be happy with either. I would not be happy spending AP on both.
 
So if I'm reading it right:
-Double Tap
--Weaker against talismans too strong to dispel(i.e divine relics or peer weapons),
--Weaker against opponents with superhuman skill that won't give us the double hit(Elves, Slaanesh daemons, etc).
--Stronger against opponents reliant on armor or raw durability(dragons, dwarves, ogres)

-Guard Bypass
--Weaker against opponents relying on armor or raw durability
--Stronger against high skill or speed opponents

-Both
--The meaningful overlap contains Malekith and similar beings, swording better isn't going to matter here.

I think we've had more trouble with super skilled opponents than super tough opponents, since our answer to THAT is to get clear and Dragonflask them.
 
Angelform said:
In retrospect that makes a lot of sense. Wilhelmina's primary experience of Wizards is Mathilde. Her natural assumption would be that a Grey Wizard should be swinging a sword about and thus her granddaughter should get started on that early.
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I'm just imagining Mathilde warping half the Old Worlds perception of Grey Wizards because she's the only one they hear about.

Imagine some traditional ulgu master of subtle trickery introducing himself in an official role to a dignitary only for them to go.

"If you're a Grey Wizard where's your Greatsword?" And for them to constantly expect Mathilde style antics only to be disappointed when things just go right for them because he fixed it all behind the scenes.
 
NavySeel said:
Lady Magister Mathilde Weber of the Grey Order decides the Runic Greatsword that hits like a cannon is too subtle, so she develops a spell to let her Dualwield Greatswords
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You are thinking too small. A shadow greatsword wouldn't have any weight, so you could stick another one in her mouth.
Angelform said:
In retrospect that makes a lot of sense. Wilhelmina's primary experience of Wizards is Mathilde. Her natural assumption would be that a Grey Wizard should be swinging a sword about and thus her granddaughter should get started on that early.
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I think it's kind of sweet.
 
Double tap is specifically inferior if the enemy has a separate defensive tool (including a limb or a parrying weapon) that is resistant to both offensive runes. It is also inferior if the enemy has a magical defensive tool and hide or armor that can withstand point blank shrapnel blasts, but not point blank cannon balls.

Anyway. Completionism, ho!

[X] Both
 
Boney said:
The disabling happens after the strike, so a double tap would leave them with a broken weapon or shield and hit by the shrapnel thereof where guard bypass would leave them dead. Don't get me wrong, double-tap still leaves that person in an extremely bad position, but guard bypass is marginally better.
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Ah there we go, i misread the 'magical defences able to resist branalhune' caveat. Upon reflection the guard bypass does just seem to have a whole lot more use cases than double tapping, as it reaches the same end result as double tapping while still being effective against higher end shields and weapons being used to parry it, and is more directly translatable to the shadow sword spell thingy people are theorising about. The shrapnel effect sounds brutal as hell but not really any more effective than hitting them with the sword already would be.
 
[X] Guard bypass

The aesthetic option. Also the maybe useful to others option.

By the way, could we get a picture of a spadone please ?
 
veekie said:
So if I'm reading it right:
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Double tap is also stronger if the opponent parries us with something magically durable and is themselves out of reach of the sword behind that barrier but otherwise not very armored. Like if they hide behind a magical gate or have a magical bodyguard or just have unnaturally long limbs holding a weapon or shield. With double tap they get a shotgun blast directed towards them.
 
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[X] Guard Bypass
There are better improvements we could make with that extra AP we'd need for doing both. Apparitions being the obvious example as another combat boost.

Also, I really want that Branarhune-compatible shadowsword spell.
 
[X] Guard bypass

In addition to the solid points said by others, I don't want to be the guy who commissioned Kragg the Grim for a meagre practice sword and then decided to never use it.
 
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