- Location
- Leeds
But how do we make more illegal?
"Powering necromancy with the Orb of Evil - LM Gray"
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
"Powering necromancy with the Orb of Evil - LM Gray"
- Location
- Who knows?
But how do we make more illegal?
"Powering necromancy with the Orb of Evil - LM Gray"
I would think that MAXIUM ILLEGAL would involve corrupting divin3 energies and non-dhar Orbs of Sorcery too lol
Go the extra mile and carve a master rune onto that badboy.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Look, the solution is clearly to find a second Wisdom Asp, dunk the Runed Orb of Evil into it, then we bind the whole thing into our soul, and then when we reshape it to look like a serpentine sword whenever we summon it up.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
But how do we make more illegal?
"Powering necromancy with the Orb of Evil - LM Gray"
Welcome to the Divided Loyalties speedrun! Today we're doing Article 7%, where time is called when we are executed by fire and sword.
- Location
- Austria
7% is lame, only 1 achievement
we should do a full completion run, all articles
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
So, things we can take from the implications of what boney said:
The second secret will not work to cleanse an area of Dhar, else someone would have already done it. The interesting question is how trying this would fuck a person up.
Warpstone is probably NOT like a power stone for Dhar, which should be expected given how differently winds and Dhar behave.
The second secret will not work to cleanse an area of Dhar, else someone would have already done it. The interesting question is how trying this would fuck a person up.
Warpstone is probably NOT like a power stone for Dhar, which should be expected given how differently winds and Dhar behave.
An idea I'd been ruminating over, and came to a quasi-sort of more concrete idea while out jogging.
So, you know how it was said about wind-herding or qhaysh that "Well, I guess hypothetically, if you had 8 wizards with the exact right mindset and all with perfect teamwork and all working together in harmony on a single spell, maybe with wind-herding you could pull off Qhaysh or something."
Now that's not very viable, needless to say.
It'd require not just academic magical knowledge, it might require social advancements too -- i.e. you'd need to come up with a way of educating and bringing up people such that they'd become wizards that work in perfect harmony with 7 other wizards. And then you'd need to set up a community, maybe just a college campus but possible a community, that'd foster this. Or maybe you'd find other ways around it, like first devising some kind of Ritual of Friendship or getting everyone an item with a Rune of Brotherhood and raising and educating them -- separately and together at times; separately for when they have to learn their own wind, together for when you need them to build up familiarity and connections with their to-be fellows -- and... well, this is all even assuming the "Well, Hypothetically..." thing was correct and it is possible.
(You also probably need an Elf at some point too, to actually provide the High Magic spell knowledge for people to make, but nevermind that.)
((Sidenote: during all this, at some point I realized that... ... this might be a way in which the Seviroscope project might come in extremely useful and relevant here; not for its potential to let Dwarfs see magic, but for its potential to give a unified visual language of magic which ALL the wizards involved would see and use. In short, the Seviroscope might be super useful not just for letting Dwarfs interact with magic... but for giving a unified grounding in how to talk about or perceive magic. In short, it's like sheet music but for magic.))
But, you know what might potentially be a better way to bypass some of that? ((Except for the Seviroscope; it might help in this next idea too. In fact, it might help just as much if not more.))
Enchantment! Artisanship. Magic item crafting. ... Well, okay, it's not really "easier" because it still requires 8 compatible methods of spellcasting, it just also requires everyone to be capable of Enchanting. But! There are potential benefits to this; first of all, no miscasting. 8 wizards casting together means way more chances to backfire. A magic item made out of 8 pieces? If nothing else, it won't backfire on all 8 people. ((The Seviroscope's use, here, would be in... well, in acting like the equivalent of sheet music or like Latin for scientific or medical terms. Er. We already have magic-Latin -- multiple ones even -- so... like the visual equivalent of Latin? I dunno.))
Furthermore, there's another benefit to making it be done through Enchanting or Scroll-scribing or Magic Item Crafting; it means that rather than being bound to making 8 magic lenses/traditions/lesson-plans that lead to a group of 8 people that cast a spell, you can instead "just" create 8 methods of Enchanting that build up to that single spell.
In short, you "just" need to come up with the 8 Enchanting methods, and then once you've done that, you can just have the wizards fulfill their part of the spell. That's still limited and clunky. But. It means that a single Gold/Amber/Jade/whatever Wizard can store up that enchanted spell-part of his and build up a backlog of that spell-component-part. Spells, or Scrolls, become the Lego building blocks of this spell... but you can store as many Legos as you want, whereas if you were Spellcasting, you'd have to bring everybody there.
But how do you do something like that?
Well... Here's the good part.
1. We might potentially already have something for this...
2. We have an organization devoted to working with magic, and we have Gold Wizards and a Light Wizard as part of it. This means we already have an organization set up for this sort of research, and the final and really good bit is...
3. Even if it doesn't work, just the preliminary research and success would, on its own, be of great use to the Colleges. Get it? We don't even need to succeed at pie in the sky "I want to do High Magic" Holy Grail part of this; just accomplishing the individual parts of this will be of worth and use to the Colleges!
So, what am I talking about that we "already have"? Well...
Remember how the Ambers managed to figure out how to replicate it? That wound up being of use in creating the Dragon transformation obelisk thing? This was what I meant by "3. Even if the pie-in-the-sky stuff doesn't work out, it'll still be useful all by itself."
So, here's my proposal; WEB-MAT actions for the Gold Wizards and Egrimm: "Try to adapt the Mystical Matrix to the Gold Wind/Light Wind."
It's possible that the Gold Wizards already have this, with their special Enchanting stuff, but. Well. At least we still have a Light Wizard that we can do this with. And, actually, there might be a benefit if the Gold College can already do this with Enchanting, because I'd actually had a second part to all this, another idea for this...
So, okay, there's the obvious problem with "Spread the Mystical Matrix to all 8 Colleges, then try to recombine it into a more universal matrix or something." That problem being that I suspect that while the effect of "Hold a spell inside and cast it later" is achieved by all the Colleges, the methods are different and incompatible. That, in fact, it would be a matter of "Well the Jades achieved it by somehow 'planting' a 'seed' in a living being, and having that seed then 'bloom' at some point... Basically, it resembles a biological method more than anything else, really." "Well, the Celestial College did something weird with math, and the Light College did something with sheet music..."
In fact, what's the point of trying to use the Mystical Matrix for this instead of, say, trying to use 8 scrolls to do this? Scrolls are just as "avoid miscast by virtue of not having the Wizard right there casting it at the time" so why not just do it that way?
What gave me the idea of trying to turn the Mystical Matrix into a universally compatible method of spellcasting?
Well, here's my next thought on this:
Because, what does Runemagic do? It gets rid of all the personal and subjective parts of magic, in order to go "Listen here you little shit, this is how you're going to be from now on."
This might result in a Mystical Matrix that can accept a spell from any Wizard. In which case, you've basically created pre-prepared blank Scrolls, that just need a wizard to provide a spell. It might result in the basis of being able to make some kind of 8-part Enchantment or mechanism that will make a spell. Or it might be the wrong way to go about this. Or it might not work.
It's possible that this requires going about this the opposite way; from the top down, rather than from the bottom up. i.e. Instead we ought to get an Elf, and have him break apart a High Magic spell into 8 component parts, and then study how he did that, and then try to work out a way to replicate each Wind-part of that individually. Perhaps with the Mystical Matrix, perhaps with the Runic Matrix, perhaps something else, who knows.
Maybe if the Waystone project is a banger, and the Eonir are willing to work with us on future magic stuff, or Sarvoi or Hatalath are excited enough at working on Cool Magic Stuff that they might be willing to do this, or maybe if we progress into the future far enough that we're willing to trade Orbs of Sorcery (or AV) to the Eonir in exchange for cooperation, like how we can use AV for Dwarf Runesmith favor stuff. Maybe something else.
I dunno. Either way, my ideas are basically two-fold;
1. What do people think about WEB-MAT actions of "Try to translate and adapt the Mystical Matrix to work with Gold Magic/Light Magic"?
and
2. What do people think about using AV to try to get the Runesmiths to make a Runic version of the Matrix? Or otherwise studying the Mystical Matrix and seeing what they can advice or help on our ideas and aspirations for it?
If nothing else, if it gets us the equivalent of Dragon-obelisks in other Colleges, it'll be a worthwhile contribution. Also, it'll be a cool way to practice magic stuff, as WEB-MAT actions involve Mathilde too, which means she'll be part of helping doing this and thus learning about the Gold or Light wind and how the wizard will try to translate it. Which means it might be a way to practice understanding other winds, or perhaps just how other wizards use other winds, which will be relevant and useful or at least cool too.
So, you know how it was said about wind-herding or qhaysh that "Well, I guess hypothetically, if you had 8 wizards with the exact right mindset and all with perfect teamwork and all working together in harmony on a single spell, maybe with wind-herding you could pull off Qhaysh or something."
Now that's not very viable, needless to say.
It'd require not just academic magical knowledge, it might require social advancements too -- i.e. you'd need to come up with a way of educating and bringing up people such that they'd become wizards that work in perfect harmony with 7 other wizards. And then you'd need to set up a community, maybe just a college campus but possible a community, that'd foster this. Or maybe you'd find other ways around it, like first devising some kind of Ritual of Friendship or getting everyone an item with a Rune of Brotherhood and raising and educating them -- separately and together at times; separately for when they have to learn their own wind, together for when you need them to build up familiarity and connections with their to-be fellows -- and... well, this is all even assuming the "Well, Hypothetically..." thing was correct and it is possible.(You also probably need an Elf at some point too, to actually provide the High Magic spell knowledge for people to make, but nevermind that.)
((Sidenote: during all this, at some point I realized that... ... this might be a way in which the Seviroscope project might come in extremely useful and relevant here; not for its potential to let Dwarfs see magic, but for its potential to give a unified visual language of magic which ALL the wizards involved would see and use. In short, the Seviroscope might be super useful not just for letting Dwarfs interact with magic... but for giving a unified grounding in how to talk about or perceive magic. In short, it's like sheet music but for magic.))
But, you know what might potentially be a better way to bypass some of that? ((Except for the Seviroscope; it might help in this next idea too. In fact, it might help just as much if not more.))
Enchantment! Artisanship. Magic item crafting. ... Well, okay, it's not really "easier" because it still requires 8 compatible methods of spellcasting, it just also requires everyone to be capable of Enchanting. But! There are potential benefits to this; first of all, no miscasting. 8 wizards casting together means way more chances to backfire. A magic item made out of 8 pieces? If nothing else, it won't backfire on all 8 people. ((The Seviroscope's use, here, would be in... well, in acting like the equivalent of sheet music or like Latin for scientific or medical terms. Er. We already have magic-Latin -- multiple ones even -- so... like the visual equivalent of Latin? I dunno.))
Furthermore, there's another benefit to making it be done through Enchanting or Scroll-scribing or Magic Item Crafting; it means that rather than being bound to making 8 magic lenses/traditions/lesson-plans that lead to a group of 8 people that cast a spell, you can instead "just" create 8 methods of Enchanting that build up to that single spell.
In short, you "just" need to come up with the 8 Enchanting methods, and then once you've done that, you can just have the wizards fulfill their part of the spell. That's still limited and clunky. But. It means that a single Gold/Amber/Jade/whatever Wizard can store up that enchanted spell-part of his and build up a backlog of that spell-component-part. Spells, or Scrolls, become the Lego building blocks of this spell... but you can store as many Legos as you want, whereas if you were Spellcasting, you'd have to bring everybody there.
But how do you do something like that?
Well... Here's the good part.
1. We might potentially already have something for this...
2. We have an organization devoted to working with magic, and we have Gold Wizards and a Light Wizard as part of it. This means we already have an organization set up for this sort of research, and the final and really good bit is...
3. Even if it doesn't work, just the preliminary research and success would, on its own, be of great use to the Colleges. Get it? We don't even need to succeed at pie in the sky "I want to do High Magic" Holy Grail part of this; just accomplishing the individual parts of this will be of worth and use to the Colleges!
So, what am I talking about that we "already have"? Well...
Bam! The Mystical Matrix!
Remember how the Ambers managed to figure out how to replicate it? That wound up being of use in creating the Dragon transformation obelisk thing? This was what I meant by "3. Even if the pie-in-the-sky stuff doesn't work out, it'll still be useful all by itself."
So, here's my proposal; WEB-MAT actions for the Gold Wizards and Egrimm: "Try to adapt the Mystical Matrix to the Gold Wind/Light Wind."
It's possible that the Gold Wizards already have this, with their special Enchanting stuff, but. Well. At least we still have a Light Wizard that we can do this with. And, actually, there might be a benefit if the Gold College can already do this with Enchanting, because I'd actually had a second part to all this, another idea for this...
So, okay, there's the obvious problem with "Spread the Mystical Matrix to all 8 Colleges, then try to recombine it into a more universal matrix or something." That problem being that I suspect that while the effect of "Hold a spell inside and cast it later" is achieved by all the Colleges, the methods are different and incompatible. That, in fact, it would be a matter of "Well the Jades achieved it by somehow 'planting' a 'seed' in a living being, and having that seed then 'bloom' at some point... Basically, it resembles a biological method more than anything else, really." "Well, the Celestial College did something weird with math, and the Light College did something with sheet music..."
In fact, what's the point of trying to use the Mystical Matrix for this instead of, say, trying to use 8 scrolls to do this? Scrolls are just as "avoid miscast by virtue of not having the Wizard right there casting it at the time" so why not just do it that way?
What gave me the idea of trying to turn the Mystical Matrix into a universally compatible method of spellcasting?
Well, here's my next thought on this:
AV. We spend AV to try to get Thorek or Kragg to take a look at the Mystical Matrix, and try to churn out a Runesmith variant of it.
Because, what does Runemagic do? It gets rid of all the personal and subjective parts of magic, in order to go "Listen here you little shit, this is how you're going to be from now on."
This might result in a Mystical Matrix that can accept a spell from any Wizard. In which case, you've basically created pre-prepared blank Scrolls, that just need a wizard to provide a spell. It might result in the basis of being able to make some kind of 8-part Enchantment or mechanism that will make a spell. Or it might be the wrong way to go about this. Or it might not work.
It's possible that this requires going about this the opposite way; from the top down, rather than from the bottom up. i.e. Instead we ought to get an Elf, and have him break apart a High Magic spell into 8 component parts, and then study how he did that, and then try to work out a way to replicate each Wind-part of that individually. Perhaps with the Mystical Matrix, perhaps with the Runic Matrix, perhaps something else, who knows.
Maybe if the Waystone project is a banger, and the Eonir are willing to work with us on future magic stuff, or Sarvoi or Hatalath are excited enough at working on Cool Magic Stuff that they might be willing to do this, or maybe if we progress into the future far enough that we're willing to trade Orbs of Sorcery (or AV) to the Eonir in exchange for cooperation, like how we can use AV for Dwarf Runesmith favor stuff. Maybe something else.
I dunno. Either way, my ideas are basically two-fold;
1. What do people think about WEB-MAT actions of "Try to translate and adapt the Mystical Matrix to work with Gold Magic/Light Magic"?
and
2. What do people think about using AV to try to get the Runesmiths to make a Runic version of the Matrix? Or otherwise studying the Mystical Matrix and seeing what they can advice or help on our ideas and aspirations for it?
If nothing else, if it gets us the equivalent of Dragon-obelisks in other Colleges, it'll be a worthwhile contribution. Also, it'll be a cool way to practice magic stuff, as WEB-MAT actions involve Mathilde too, which means she'll be part of helping doing this and thus learning about the Gold or Light wind and how the wizard will try to translate it. Which means it might be a way to practice understanding other winds, or perhaps just how other wizards use other winds, which will be relevant and useful or at least cool too.
- Location
- Utrecht
This could be a spell storing item.
But the only way i could see it working is if the effect is released around the rune item.
To solve the problem, you put the Rune of Unknown as part of the combo.
And use it as a grenade.
1) Runesmith makes item with Rune of Mathilde's matrix and Rune of the Unknown
2) Wizard casts an AOE effect in the item
3) Dwarf throws the item
4) Effect released around the target
5) Dwarf uses rune of the unknown to summon the (now inert) item back.
Useful spells would be high end battle magics that do not make the item unrecoverable (so Pit of Shades is probably out)
It would be a neat tool for Mathilde, but a gimmick for everyone else
- Location
- Russia
That was already obvious from what it is - a knowledge how to unravel self-containment of Dhar spells. It is inherently a method against spells only and therefore can't work against Dhar as ambient energy, we don't need any guesses to know it.
I know it was a controversial decision by the community, but I support the fact that they created a separate category for Article 7% runs that use the Liber Mortis. It's made the category much more diverse, with lots of players creating new strategies (shout out to egrimm_von_gamer for the chaos dragon strat) and the Liber Mortis% runs are kinda dull because it's so dependent on RNG until you find it and then instantly you win. There's no thought behind it.
- Location
- Greece
Violating article 7 allready violates most of them.
...Also, as a Magister, how do you even violate 5, 11 and 12?
A7-NoLiber% Speedrun
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Hey! Hello everyone, I hope you're all doing alright, I've missed you all~!
Yes, my simp army, assemble! Hey chat! Yesss, yess, let the hashtags flow! Unlimited power!!!
DiceCat donated 1000 Bits:
Holy shit that new model #LadyInWhite
Yes, thank you for noticing! Shoutout to the wonderful craftsmanship of GrungniDwarf for the new VTube model, really huge upgrade over the old one! Anyway, DoveFlock, today we're diving right back into Divided Loyalties, since I got challenged on Twitter by Khorneflakes yet again, with him claiming one of my records - so we're gonna be retaliating by sniping one of his!
So I did some research, and the A7-NoLiber% category is really unoptimized, and Khoreflakes did a little fucky-wucky in his record - let me pull up the tapes. Yeah, here, watch this. Wait, wait, let me mute him - this audience is far too refined to have to listen to such a plebeian, right? Right?
No, I'm not gonna do the oujo laugh, settle down, chat.
Anyway, here, you can see him totally screw up the sequence here - he only took seven warpstone chunks with him into the Altdorf Undercity instead of the required nine to spawn the Skryre merchant, so he had to settle for doubling back to Altdorf later in the run, and then he got waylaid by - let me skip to that - waylaid by a random encounter during the extra trip. He still got the record, since he was using a much better route than GarbageRats previous record. But I think we can do a liiiitle better than that, right chat?
Right, so the time to beat is 43:20, and we're gonna be using a new route which ties into the Early AV glitch recently discovered by ChanginYuorWeys, which uses a glitched Wisdom's Asp to get access to an extreme late-game reagent very early. There's gonna be a bit of RNG involved, but on average this should still be a much faster route, because of how reactive AV is with everything. So the general plan is to pick up some Warpstone while grabbing the items needed for the Wisdom's Asp glitch, use AV to expand the Minor Warpstone Chunk into the Massive Refined Warpstone Block, then use the item duplication glitch to get a full inventory of them. At that point we just need to reload the game until we get good Morrsleib RNG, and we can set off a real chain reaction and trigger the A7 ending.
LakeLady donated 1000 Bits:
Do the oujo laugh, the people demand it #AristocratGang
Oh, alright then. Ohohohohohoho! Let's show these ruffians what a real noble lady can do! Dove Flock, lets take flight!
Yes, my simp army, assemble! Hey chat! Yesss, yess, let the hashtags flow! Unlimited power!!!
DiceCat donated 1000 Bits:
Holy shit that new model #LadyInWhite
Yes, thank you for noticing! Shoutout to the wonderful craftsmanship of GrungniDwarf for the new VTube model, really huge upgrade over the old one! Anyway, DoveFlock, today we're diving right back into Divided Loyalties, since I got challenged on Twitter by Khorneflakes yet again, with him claiming one of my records - so we're gonna be retaliating by sniping one of his!
So I did some research, and the A7-NoLiber% category is really unoptimized, and Khoreflakes did a little fucky-wucky in his record - let me pull up the tapes. Yeah, here, watch this. Wait, wait, let me mute him - this audience is far too refined to have to listen to such a plebeian, right? Right?
No, I'm not gonna do the oujo laugh, settle down, chat.
Anyway, here, you can see him totally screw up the sequence here - he only took seven warpstone chunks with him into the Altdorf Undercity instead of the required nine to spawn the Skryre merchant, so he had to settle for doubling back to Altdorf later in the run, and then he got waylaid by - let me skip to that - waylaid by a random encounter during the extra trip. He still got the record, since he was using a much better route than GarbageRats previous record. But I think we can do a liiiitle better than that, right chat?
Right, so the time to beat is 43:20, and we're gonna be using a new route which ties into the Early AV glitch recently discovered by ChanginYuorWeys, which uses a glitched Wisdom's Asp to get access to an extreme late-game reagent very early. There's gonna be a bit of RNG involved, but on average this should still be a much faster route, because of how reactive AV is with everything. So the general plan is to pick up some Warpstone while grabbing the items needed for the Wisdom's Asp glitch, use AV to expand the Minor Warpstone Chunk into the Massive Refined Warpstone Block, then use the item duplication glitch to get a full inventory of them. At that point we just need to reload the game until we get good Morrsleib RNG, and we can set off a real chain reaction and trigger the A7 ending.
LakeLady donated 1000 Bits:
Do the oujo laugh, the people demand it #AristocratGang
Oh, alright then. Ohohohohohoho! Let's show these ruffians what a real noble lady can do! Dove Flock, lets take flight!
Last edited:
- Location
- Earth
Runesmiths view their trade as using the sacred secrets of Thungni, and anything that can't be derived from the original principles He taught is basically declared heretical and not used. For example, Kragg refuses to use the runes on the axe Mathilde recovered because he can't tell if it's the work of Norse or Chaos Dwarves, and the fact that there's a chance it's the latter means he won't try to reverse engineer those runes, regardless of how noncorruptive or useful they may be, because he can't run the risk of using something that doesn't come from Thungni.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That explains it! Shallya's tears are not from empathy, they're from rage at her runs being messed up by RNG! Some really deep lore in here.
- Location
- UK
I wonder if we could make a spell that convinced someone an object is holy.
The relevant backing would be: Spell:Eye of the Beholder / Trait:Avatar
Naturally, the plan for a spell like this would be to use it with enchantment to create 'holy' weapons that banish demons.
In other news, I can't shake the idea that Pit of Shades is Pall of Darkness combined with Mockery of Death in some way.
The relevant backing would be: Spell:Eye of the Beholder / Trait:Avatar
Naturally, the plan for a spell like this would be to use it with enchantment to create 'holy' weapons that banish demons.
In other news, I can't shake the idea that Pit of Shades is Pall of Darkness combined with Mockery of Death in some way.
Honest question, what about the pit of shades dimension?
I mean I get it's probably still bad, and battle magic isn't exactly a safe disposal method (large chance of making things worse) but I'm curious now.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Boney is generally pretty strict about reality confusion illusions. The whole "burrito clause" thing spawned from that very concept. Several individuals in quest have explained what Pit of Shades is, including Algard himself. It's a hole into the boundary space between dimesnions, the Shadow Realm that the College resides in, and the sudden dimensional tear annihilates anything that goes through it.
- Location
- USA
Article 12 is the employment one, right? Just offer your services to an enemy of the Empire that's hiring, and that's a violation right there.
- Location
- Leeds
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Nah, just hire a Journeyman and then tell them you're paying them in exposure.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No questions necessary
While genuinely funny, I have feeling that in world with no global communication it is actually a big deal for a journeymanling to be seen working for an LM
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Sidenote they don't, they encyst it so it builds up in them but doesn't get passed on...is my understadning of it.