I wonder if "Ethics and Philosophy" would be a category. I'd think that understanding how different cultures think would help in our diplomatic endeavours...
I mean, that's what everyone means by "training sword" - namely, a sword with just rune of the unknown.
Mind you, I think having at least one other person with a poofing sword who can develop the style alongside us would be neat. The requirements are so esoteric that it's probably never going to be a widespread thing, so I don't mind not being the sole creator of the form.
I think that the Cannon-ball rune is a vital component of the style, and any sword without it will not be able to be used in the same way in battle.
A training sword as described would be useful for practicing our style's flicker-aspects, and may be useful in it's own right in combat if someone used it differently; but the ability to apply up to a cannon-ball's amount of force with the tap of the edge is too central to the style that is being built to be left out.
Something something "infinitely sharp shadow-edge" spell or enchantment might be similar enough to Kragg's rune to allow for a similar enough style, perhaps.
I think that the Cannon-ball rune is a vital component of the style, and any sword without it will not be able to be used in the same way in battle.
A training sword as described would be useful for practicing our style's flicker-aspects, and may be useful in it's right in combat if used differently; but the ability to apply up to a cannon-ball's amount of force with the tap of the edge is too central to how it the style that is being built to be left out of any other weapon.
Something something "infinitely sharp shadow-edge" spell or enchantment might be similar enough to Kragg's rune to allow for a similar enough style, perhaps.
For some reason, replacing Kragg's Rune with "less awesome rune" didn't occur to me. That might work.
But we'd need it to be able to be disabled separately from the Rune of the Unknown, or we'd be right back to square one in terms of "is it useful for training?"
For some reason, replacing Kragg's Rune with "less awesome rune" didn't occur to me. That might work.
But we'd need it to be able to be disabled separately from the Rune of the Unknown, or we'd be right back to square one in terms of "is it useful for training?"
I wonder if "Ethics and Philosophy" would be a category. I'd think that understanding how different cultures think would help in our diplomatic endeavours...
I'm fairly sure we have access to the magical eonir stuff now that the Waysrone project has officially started, so we're probably gonna be doing that for a while.
I'm fairly sure we have access to the magical eonir stuff now that the Waysrone project has officially started, so we're probably gonna be doing that for a while.
We won't have access to the magical Eonir stuff until the Laurelorn/Nordland tensions die down, if I've understood things correctly. The Library section of the Organizations informational say we can only get Mundane and Divine topics from them at the moment, at any rate.
Also, if you're talking about the library acquisition we can do every turn, the Library of Mournings option is really inefficient compared to the other options, presumably because it involves hiring local Cityborn scribes every time. So even if we could get magic books from the Eonir, we'd probably be better off buying them with our own pocket money or waiting until we have something more efficient.
By the way, here's the efficiency of all the book acquisition options:
Library of Mournings: Up to +10 bonus total, worth up to 500g
Colleges: Up to +20 bonus total, worth up to 1000g and 16 CF
Barak Varr: Up to +30 bonus total, worth up to 1500g
Backfill: +47 bonus from last backfill, was worth 2350g
So my take is:
- Library of Mournings is basically never worth it and 99% of the time it will be better to just buy the books instead. I think this option can be safely dismissed unless the EIC spontaneously combusts or something.
- Colleges is easy to justify if all the topics we're picking are likely to be relevant in the near future, and moreso if some of them are topics we don't have any books on yet. Obscure/Antiquarian/Esoteric for College books would normally cost 1/1/2 CF respectively, which greatly increases the amount of cost saved with this option.
- Barak Varr is also easy to justify if the topics are relevant, but the situation where that's the case is gonna be rarer than Colleges because of how magic-focused we tend to be. Again, this option will be more efficient for topics we don't have books on yet.
- Backfill is always great regardless of circumstance, and functions as the bar the other options need to clear in order to be worth doing
There's A Necessary Amount of Hubris For This - An Omake
MoneyB said:
Turn XX Results - 25XX.1 - Contemplation
-Start work on an advanced Doppelganger spell that allows seamless communication that humans cannot do, etc.
--COIN: The Gambler
--Melkoth assist (10 CF)
Your recent adventures in foreign lands were both dangerous and thrilling, but they have not satisfied your hunger for reaching new heights. So you go back to entertaining an old, idle idea. Over time you've met a great variety of different allies, and of enemies as well, but weird as they or their cultures can be, they were people. Even those with strange ways of communication, or even alien mindsets. But that's just the problem, isn't it? It's already hard enough to meet someone as their equal with things like class and wealth standing in the way, but 'not having musk' or 'not having the right limbs for body language' presents a massive obstacle. And for someone like yourself, who likes to travel the world and see different kinds of people, being able to overcome those obstacles could be very useful.
Or you could use it to infiltrate Skaven society. That's a possibility too.
————————————
Unlike when you first created Rite of Way, you cannot base your experimentation on the simplicity of Lesser Magic like Skywalk, but Doppelganger is still among the most simple spells of Ulgu. It is not enough for your purposes, as there isn't enough stability for the amounts of Wind your idea requires, but the skeleton is there, undoubtedly. You can't scale it up directly, but its way of enveloping yourself with Ulgu is still the right approach.
[Incorporating Doppelganger…]
The problem lies with what is perceived. You are directly trying to overcome Doppelganger's inability to imitate other species' body languages, after all. You are successful enough in superficially imitating a Skaven, using your memories and drawings of Qrech as a base, but your movements aren't convincing at all even to yourself. You stand too upright, you do not fidget enough, and your limbs are too stiff. And for that matter, the skeleton of what you have thus far is too rigid to accommodate other shapes. You won't be passing yourself off as an Ogre or a Beastman anytime soon either.
Melkoth waves asides your concerns. He explains with painful simplicity that you're thinking of this too much like it were a Ghur transformation spell. Ulgu cannot let you imitate instincts you've not experienced yourself, and you're not borrowing any other creature's mind, either. You nearly smack yourself - Lord Magister Luuk told you nearly as much when you commissioned the Transformation of Kadon Battle Altar. So you must either take a closer look at the various targets you'd wish to mingle in with ahead of time (impractical) or make the Ulgu take in the expectations of the viewer or viewers, and let those expectations fill in the void of the spell.
[Modifying Doppelganger…]
[Melkoth interrupt!]
Thanking him for the insight and for saving you a few weeks of hard work, you go back to the literal drawing board. By the time you're done, you're far from satisfied, but progress is progress.
-Continue work on your 'Great Doppleganger' spell. Think on the relation between appearance and self - who you are and who others see you as.
--COIN: The Gambler
—Regimand assist
Having yet again found a solitary month in which to continue your research, and leaving the rest of WEB-MAT to their duties, you turn your attentions to your modified Doppelganger spell. You already have a suitable base for incorporating the greater power you'll need for it, but the actual ways of implementing that power are lacking. You need detail. Unless you imitate a specific person, Doppelganger only imitates a generic member of someone's race and that falls apart to scrutiny very quick.
So you start using Illusion to change what's already present in the spell and make the presentation better - including odors and a basic understanding of body heat, for instance. You take out some of the spell's complexity and range and in exchange make it capable of not needing concentration. You wake up, try out different notations or shorthands, eat, keep working, then go to sleep. Repeat for a week. And eventually you feel confident enough that your Qrech impression can do a number of different musks, though you're unable to know which is which, or if they're even recognizable as such to the Skaven mind.
[Incorporating Illusion…]
Now you get to the real meat of the issue: how to actually integrate body language in a way that is reliable. Doing some reading on the subject in your now-respectable library on the subject, you come to the conclusion that it's unworkable to incorporate your own assumptions of other species' instinctive understandings of their own bodies. Too much of it is tied in the physicality of being, in the parts of yourself that people do not subconsciously assess. Even dwarves, which are very close to humans in terms of behavior, have slightly different ways of walking and holding themselves which they'd notice were missing if you were to imitate one of them for extended periods of time. And for the more esoteric races there's too many other variables to account for manually - for instance, their senses of balance and capacity to perceive heat, in addition to whatever keen smell they have.
Again you think of Melkoth's words - this isn't a Ghur spell. Well, at least you closed off this avenue of investigation before it would consume too much of your time.
[Incorporating knowledge and assumptions of other species…]
By contrast, you have more avenues to handle the idea of the viewers' perceptions themselves shaping how the spell is. Spells more complicated than Mindhole which interact with the mind are not part of the Grey College's curriculum, but thankfully, you have your former master to aid you. After some companionable illusory competition and a drink over dinner, you begin to discuss how to receive peoples' inherent expectations and using them in the spell itself. After some consideration, he begins describing an approach that's almost the opposite of the warning-filled memories and information he put in your head when you were Apprentice. He explains that to some extent, perception shapes reality more than you'd expect - much like how a human's soul is more conducive to wielding a Wind after getting into its proper mindset, so too can illusions be more effective when they align with people's expectations.
Regimand tells you a fascinating anecdote of how once he saw a pained woman in Frederheim get treated by the medics there by being given a strange and soothing concoction which they told her would ease her pain. Having drunk it, it did indeed do that, and curious, he asked what they had given her. They responded: Tea with honey in it. The human mind is capable of amazing feats of self-deception. Simply believing that something is good for you might do just that. And perhaps, he says, if you open up the spell's mechanism to foreign observation once its base is active, this will cover up Doppelganger's natural deficiencies.
[Incorporating expectations of the beholder…]
[Regimand interrupt: Incorporating a variation on "sleeper memories"…]
He also tells you to keep in mind your own perception of your spell, and how it could adversely affect it. That it is possible that if you are too aware of your own nature as a human, the spell might fall apart. That'd be embarrassing.
Still, you're no stranger to self-deception and talking yourself into doing things. And you've been training your poker face. Maybe you can turn that to your advantage. You can feel that you're on the verge of… something…
-Try to finish your 'Great Doppleganger' spell.
--COIN: The Gambler
--Melkoth assist (10 CF)
You linger in your large library for some time after checking your new acquisitions, wishing to break in some of the reading nooks. You are doing some light reading of translated poetry from Cathay, when you stumble upon a curious passage making a reference you do not understand about a different book. After some checking, you realize it references a philosopher's whimsical texts. In it, he describes how he dreamt he was a butterfly, who had forgotten he was a man. He was only aware of his own happiness as he flew here and there. But then suddenly he awoke and found himself back to being a man, remembering who he was. But he did not know whether he was still a man, who had dreamt of a butterfly, or whether he was still a butterfly who was now dreaming of being a man.
The idea is striking… and you can't imagine that you just happened to read this specific book just before going to continue your spell's development. Your old friend is trying to hint at something.
——————————
You're pretty sure you're Mathilde. You're not someone's dream, or if you are, then you've taken a life of your own. But now you're thinking back to the declaration of the Karaz Ankor, of you holding a dwarf's soul. You're still not convinced that's the truth, that Ranald would do such a thing for a long-term joke.
…But maybe you can try to dream of being a dwarf, for purposes of how you perceive the spell. If you can't even pass yourself off as a dwarf with this spell of yours, it won't fool any Skaven, that's for sure. You spend a few days of study and movement in front of mirrors, while holding a very normal Illusion of a dwarf woman over yourself. And after some careful consideration, you modify the illusion so it is that of a dwarven Mathilde, instead. It looks… surprisingly normal. And after some consideration, you find that the you in the mirror is moving more like you'd expect a dwarf to move. This is the right direction to take this, you think.
You repeat the experiment as an elf, and while you make for a short one at best, you can be detached and aloof in just the right way that it would make any Daroir annoyed. You face slightly more trouble with Orcs and Skaven, given that the former are always masculine and do not reproduce sexually, and the latter's females being… well, being what they are. Still, you've seen Orcs with plenty of clothes or armor on before, and been subject to one of their gods' influence before, you have a vague idea of what you'd look like as an Orc - a rowdy rough 'ard girl, ready fer causing some pain. And you have some vague impressions of what a 'normal' Skaven female 'should' look like, though from bits and pieces of speculation. And in either of those cases, you take care to make the result seem somewhat androgynous.
[Incorporating your own perceptions of the illusion…]
You make good progress, but in the lead-up to the final stage of the spell, part of you still wonders about the nature of souls and their relevance in this subject. As you talked with Gunnars before on the subject, most religions aren't truly sure of what happens after life. There's some best guesses, but not any real certainty.
According to some schools of thought in Ind, Cathay and Nippon, a person's soul may yet find life after death, in a new shape - reincarnation, they call it. People's memories are wiped clean, but their essence preserved as they prepare themselves for new life. They view this as a wheel, a great cycle. That's about the extent of your knowledge on it, and you're not thrilled about some of the details there, but there's a part of you willing to entertain it. If it were true, it'd mean that a singular soul could have at some point experienced any number of different existences while retaining their essential nature. The idea of having once been a very different person from who you currently are is fascinating to consider, and it lingers with you as you work on your Tower.
(…Come to think of it, you haven't even asked Cython what they think happens to a dragon's soul once they die. Food for thought.)
As you put the finishing touches, and Melkoth watches over you, you feel like you are in a strange trance. Like you've done this before. That is to say, having done this before having started work on this spell. It's not instinct, but memory. Foggy, an indistinct sense of remembrance. You're not going to be claiming it aloud anytime soon that you might be a dream, but...
Well, all you can positively assert, as you put the finishing touches on the spell, is that you are at least a dreamer.
Your dream is at the end of your reality. And your reality…
[Putting it all together: 100+XX+20 (Room of Dawn and Dusk)+20 (Coin)+5(Library: Ulgu)+???(Melkoth's help) =???]
…is at the end of your dream.
———————————
Lord Magister Melkoth watches as the mist emanating from Lady Magister Mathilde's staff envelops her, her eyes closed. She mutters syllables of power, and he has no doubt she could not hear him if he spoke. Just as well - one needs proper concentration when using new spells.
For a moment, the mist simply coalesces around her, making only her silhouette distinct, but then it retracts, revealing… more mist. He blinks, and then tries squinting-
Reptilian eyes, milk-white. The sensation of something large breathing slowly and deeply in front of him. A smirk. At least two wings, spreading behind her-
Melkoth jerks back. There is a pattern of mist in front of him in the shape of a dragon. The dragon blinks slowly at Melkoth. He very slowly lowers his staff, which he'd raised instinctively. Mathilde? He says. She nods, in an imperious way. She takes a few mist-filled steps around him, and he can feel the room shake almost imperceptibly. He is sweating. She looks around the room carefully, as if for the first time. Then, after a minute of inquisitive gazing, the mist seems to recede, and turn back, and-
And then Mathilde Weber, the human, is there yet again, panting. Melkoth releases a deep breath he'd been holding.
He poses a series of questions to make sure she's still herself. According to her, she felt mostly like herself, and aware of who she was, but in the way one simply knows something in a dream. She partly explains her methodology, and why she thought this mentality would aid the spell. Then they examine the room, together. There are no signs that something with the approximate weight and size of a dragon walked around, suggesting that maybe it really was just an illusion, but the realistic nature of it all and the shaking he felt of the tower as she walked created an ambiguity that should be studied, ideally somewhere safer and more open.
Whether real or mostly psychological, they both agree that replicating a creature of that size would be terribly effective in combat.
Afterwards, they do a series of experiments with the spell by having her imitate dwarves and orcs, putting her through a series of runs, fighting training dummies, casual conversation while walking, and going up to people she knows to see their boggle-eyed reactions. Similarly to the draconic shape, Mathilde seems to exhibit behaviors and mentality of the beings she imitated, and even to some extent similar strengths or resilience. And unlike the draconic shape, she could imitate the form of an orc or a dwarf for half a day without straining the spell.
Infiltrating the Skaven might still be difficult, but it would be due to not knowing anything other than Low Queekish, not an issue of body language or scents.
She seems very happy with her creation, seemingly unaware of just how much she perturbed the Rector.
The only remaining aspects are hand swap and double tap. Hand swap doesn't need a training sword and double tap's largest challenge is dealing with the recoil of Kragg's rune, so it can't use the training sword at all. But it would allow Mathilde to spar with the style instead of only using drills and dummies, which would be of some help overall.
I think that the Cannon-ball rune is a vital component of the style, and any sword without it will not be able to be used in the same way in battle.
A training sword as described would be useful for practicing our style's flicker-aspects, and may be useful in it's own right in combat if someone used it differently; but the ability to apply up to a cannon-ball's amount of force with the tap of the edge is too central to the style that is being built to be left out.
Something something "infinitely sharp shadow-edge" spell or enchantment might be similar enough to Kragg's rune to allow for a similar enough style, perhaps.
The style would need some adaptions for swords that have no other damage enhancers, but getting pinked with a bastard sword isn't something that can be entirely shrugged off by anybody, and being able to deliver them with impunity and in rapid succession would still be a significant advantage.
Yeah, even trying my best it was a real stretch to make it seem plausible for a spell that's initially designed as 'Doppelganger on crack and possibly as a self-buff'.
And of course, I was assuming a similar rate and process of research as Rite of Way.
Would he need a d100? I feel like he would be more likely to be a wizard since we know Anton has had magic in his family. Maybe give a +5 bonus or something?
Would he need a d100? I feel like he would be more likely to be a wizard since we know Anton has had magic in his family. Maybe give a +5 bonus or something?
Let's not add Mathilde going around creating orphans to find out if she can make kids magical. By these I mean most families outright disowning children that show magic in a large part of the empire.
Let's not add Mathilde going around creating orphans to find out if she can make kids magical. By these I mean most families outright disowning children that show magic in a large part of the empire.
For the record, my intent while writing that apocrypha wasn't really 'hmm wouldnt it be cool if Mathilde really were a reincarnated dragon?'. Mostly it was 'what would be the coolest way of making a Battle-Magic-tier Doppelganger effect?' and then my hands slipped away from me.
Hopefully it helps that this takes place in a hypothetical future where the thread is somehow willing to make non-fog/mist/miasma Battle Magic spells and deal with their risk.
Presumably Nurgle is talking about how Mathilde spending too much time around random kids will turn them into wizards and get them disowned by their prejudiced families. But in the scenario posited, she'd be spending time only with her friends' children (said friends are at least to some degree accepting of magic, or they wouldn't be friends with Mathilde in the first place), or kids who are already orphans.
The style would need some adaptions for swords that have no other damage enhancers, but getting pinked with a bastard sword isn't something that can be entirely shrugged off by anybody, and being able to deliver them with impunity and in rapid succession would still be a significant advantage.
That gave me an amazing mental image.
Bonkbonkbonkbonk.
More seriously, a big part of wielding a greatsword is the difficulty of aborting a strike or defensive maneuver once you begin, so even without any way to get it back up TO speed, the ability to reset to neutral instantly lets you work far more aggressively without exposing defenses...and is a good way to bait out people more used to normal greatswords who'd percieve openings that aren't there due to the reset.
That gave me an amazing mental image.
Bonkbonkbonkbonk.
More seriously, a big part of wielding a greatsword is the difficulty of aborting a strike or defensive maneuver once you begin, so even without any way to get it back up TO speed, the ability to reset to neutral instantly lets you work far more aggressively without exposing defenses...and is a good way to bait out people more used to normal greatswords who'd percieve openings that aren't there due to the reset.
Honestly the best part of this is that we're making a style of swordsmanship that humans can do that requires Dawi runesmithing that will completely fuck Elgi duelists up. What's that, you have a beautiful flourish that will disarm me? Well fuck you the sword is now behind your guard and hitting you in the face while the Dwarfs laugh in the background.
This was a great read.
I'd be down for trying to create a "Great Doppelganger" spell for real if we had the traits, though I suspect it couldn't have the buffing aspect.
Honestly the best part of this is that we're making a style of swordsmanship that humans can do that requires Dawi runesmithing that will completely fuck Elgi duelists up. What's that, you have a beautiful flourish that will disarm me? Well fuck you the sword is now behind your guard and hitting you in the face while the Dwarfs laugh in the background.
