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Potentially, depending on the person, yes.
Well, maybe not mining, but most of that is probably being done by dwarves.
Being a librarian will require very specific skills, and lot of work, even if large parts of it is mental.
Seems i should have checked the definition of cushy before using it.

Compared to those jobs I mentioned, It's not dangerous, which in a death world, is a very attractive thing.
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Setting aside that The We are just as much a person as anyone else and that deciding against hiring them because they look wrong is kind of yikes in the first place.
Not hiring the We for a role they would be excellent at because they would be unnerving for a significant majority of people that will be using the Library is a valid reason, imo.
But I need to go think on that a little more, just in case I'm wrong.
 
To be fair I think racism against the giant carnivorous spiders is a given hence less of a community center value.
I don't want to swerve into real world politics, but I think I've literally heard a variation on this argument arguing against hiring minorities, for fear that they'll drive off customers. (I am not accusing you or any other threadgoers of such attitudes.)

I don't really want to get any further into it than that, but if the argument for diversity rests on not hiring the We because people are unwilling to accept them as a worthwhile member of the community, maybe it ought to be reexamined.

Instead, perhaps consider putting the We in a public-facing position as an advantage in normalising its relations with the rest of the population.
 
unnerving for a significant majority of people that will be using the Library
I still think, that if someone have enough money/influence/strength (physical or magical) to go to K8P for the knowledge they need, then promise of safety from both King Belegar and Grey Lady Magister Mathilde would be enough to not be scared of spiders.
More time pass - more common The We will be for visitors.
 
I don't want to swerve into real world politics, but I think I've literally heard a variation on this argument arguing against hiring minorities, for fear that they'll drive off customers. (I am not accusing you or any other threadgoers of such attitudes.)

I don't really want to get any further into it than that, but if the argument for diversity rests on not hiring the We because people are unwilling to accept them as a worthwhile member of the community, maybe it ought to be reexamined.

Instead, perhaps consider putting the We in a public-facing position as an advantage in normalising its relations with the rest of the population.

I am not making an argument about it being right, only about it being expected. This is a thing that will happen regardless if we want to or not so from an utilitarian PoV it makes sense to take it into account when voting.
 
Seems i should have checked the definition of cushy before using it.

Compared to those jobs I mentioned, It's not dangerous, which in a death world, is a very attractive thing.
Neither is farming or smithing.
Mining the way dwarves do it is probably not that dangerous either.
Now, soldiering is dangerous, but even then vast majority will manage to reach retirement, wether they have been paid enough to retire is another thing.

While i agree that being a librarian is relatively safe job, i don't that will be the bigest draw for people.
Decent pay, and possible social adcancement seem more likely.
 
I mean, if the Eonir are the ones operating the Dhar mechanisms, then wouldn't it technically skirt the Articles? Or would it break the Articles even if we let the Eonir do it because the Colleges would be the ones authorising the use of an object enchanted with a sort of sorcery that "Utilises Dark Magic". The rules can get pretty finnicky here.
Probably the latter if this was not a Waystone thing. Dark magic is very much not the sort of thing to be tolerated.
 
I don't want to swerve into real world politics, but I think I've literally heard a variation on this argument arguing against hiring minorities, for fear that they'll drive off customers. (I am not accusing you or any other threadgoers of such attitudes.)

I don't really want to get any further into it than that, but if the argument for diversity rests on not hiring the We because people are unwilling to accept them as a worthwhile member of the community, maybe it ought to be reexamined.

Instead, perhaps consider putting the We in a public-facing position as an advantage in normalising its relations with the rest of the population.
If the goal is normalising the We locking them up in a mountain no-one lives in where the vast vast majority of the people of 8 peaks will never even see them let alone interact with them doing a job completely irrelevant to most people's lives isn't going to help at all. If that's the goal we should be hiring them for a job in one of the occupied peaks for something that would force people to interact with them, (We run tavern when?) because very few locals will use the library as is and filling it with big scary spiders will further decrease the very small number who do thus preventing the de-ostracisation of said spiders.
 
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If the goal is normalising the We locking them up in a mountain no-one lives in where the vast vast majority of the people of 8 peaks will never even see them let alone interact with them doing a job completely irrelevant to most people's lives isn't going to help at all. If that's the goal we should be hiring them for a job in one of the occupied peaks for something that would force people to interact with them, (We run tavern when?) because very few locals will use the library as is and filling it with big scary spiders will further decrease the very small number who do thus preventing the de-ostracisation of said spiders.
If so few locals will use the Library as to not affect the perception of the We, how can it possibly function as a "community center" in any meaningful sense? It can't go both ways.
 
I still think, that if someone have enough money/influence/strength (physical or magical) to go to K8P for the knowledge they need, then promise of safety from both King Belegar and Grey Lady Magister Mathilde would be enough to not be scared of spiders.
More time pass - more common The We will be for visitors.
I don't really want to get any further into it than that, but if the argument for diversity rests on not hiring the We because people are unwilling to accept them as a worthwhile member of the community, maybe it ought to be reexamined.
I asked boney if Local included some We, but the answer was "nope, the We can do it all, and the locals can't meaningfully compete with an immortal hivemind", so it's not about the We not being worthwhile members of the community for me.
I want all the communities to have opportunities in the Library, but the We option winning does not do that.
I'm more struggling with "is it OK to be uncomfortable around of giant spiders, even if they are Sapient and promise not to hurt you?"
I think it's a tall order to expect there won't be bumps in the road because of this, and I would rather avoid them.

Neither is farming or smithing.
Farming in the heart of a Dwarf karak is safe. Farming in the empire very much isn't.
Smithing is not inherently dangerous if you know what you're doing, but it's very physically taxing.
 
I am ok with the We winning, they are very well suited for the task.
But how is Cython losing to locals? have people forgotten he is a dragon?
 
The We as librarians is Peak Zhuf logic. Sentient hivemind spiders would make exceptional librarians, therefore they must get the job.
But there are other factors in play:

Think of the scene with Francesco Caravello visiting Mathilde, or when Mathilde got Belegar the Dragon Obelisk.

She has a massive blindspot when it comes to "what ordinary people will be fine with"

To be fair I think racism against the giant carnivorous spiders is a given hence less of a community center value.

Not hiring the We for a role they would be excellent at because they would be unnerving for a significant majority of people that will be using the Library is a valid reason, imo.

I am not making an argument about it being right, only about it being expected. This is a thing that will happen regardless if we want to or not so from an utilitarian PoV it makes sense to take it into account when voting.
These arguments are horrifying, and I am once again reminded most people would rather I not exist.

Should people like me who don't fit into what is "proper" just shut up and stay away from Ordinary People so we don't make them uncomfortable?

I refuse to accept "ordinary people are just inherently gonna be xenophobic, nothing we can do about that" as a valid line of argument for why we shouldn't hire the We.

...I'm gonna take a break from the thread for a moment.
 
Part of the standard dwarf education is literacy iirc, so a third of the population could easily use our library. And with the prestige culture of K8P valuing universal education and with a big mountain of books right there to use it on, I could easily see literacy becoming widespread in the rest of the population as well.
 
I am ok with the We winning, they are very well suited for the task.
But how is Cython losing to locals? have people forgotten he is a dragon?
Both the We and Cython has the basis of inviting an individual to run the place, directly with the We or by delegation with Cython.
The Locals as an option hinges on better integrating K8P as a whole to the library. Also, Cython has the chance to be somewhat problematic in the long run, while Local and We seems to be mostly positive.
 
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If so few locals will use the Library as to not affect the perception of the We, how can it possibly function as a "community center" in any meaningful sense? It can't go both ways.
If you don't pick the option that gives a benefit you don't get the benefit.

If we pick the We it wont be a community center, obviously, that's a benefit for picking the local option. The We option has it's own benefits like the increased security locally omnipotent librarians etc.
 
I am ok with the We winning, they are very well suited for the task.
But how is Cython losing to locals? have people forgotten he is a dragon?
Cython while on hand would have an encyclopedic memory of the library's contents and their location, and be able to use a light magic construct to retrieve any requested book at will....but can you really see them condescending to actually do so with any regularity? And while any staff they recruit would have to meet their high standards in order to avoid potentially draconian termination procedures, they still wouldn't be 'hive mind that is retrieving the book you need before you finish the sentence.'


Well, unless Cython recruits the We as the only staff they need, but Boney seems not to be leaning towards Vote Plan Retain and Eat Cake.
 
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That sounds interesting, would you be willing to elaborate? Could you walk into a medieval library and go to town with a quill? What portion of your skills would be transferable? Which ones would you have to learn from scratch?

The technology related stuff—search engines, statistical analysis, digital preservation etc would all be useless, and I'd probably have to relearn what ever the local equivalent to copyright law and all the legal aspects related to that is, but the cataloguing, archiving and indexing would remain the same, as would the customer orientated aspects of the job—finding out what information my patrons are looking for, finding that information, and distilling it so they can understand the options available to them.

For example, say you come in, and you're doing a study on anatomy, and you need books with anatomical diagrams of hands. Well I then need to look up all the relevant texts in the medical science section (and because this is a medieval library, most of the texts will be in greek or latin, and maybe if I'm lucky we'll have some more modern ones in german), find those texts, find the information in those texts, judge if it's appropriate for my patron's needs, and then arrange for a copy to be delivered to them.

There's a Neil Gaiman quote I'm rather fond of: "Google can bring you back 100,000 answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one."

At its heart library science is the study of how to do research and how to manage information. Personally, I think it should be included in the study of every degree as managing information is kinda important in many fields. For example, there was this woman on my course who worked for a major Malaysian bank—they had paid for her to fly all the way to the UK to get a degree in library science because they needed an information specialist to manage their financial data. Large law firms will do the same, there's a reason why Canada built a legal library inside the same building their parliament meets in (the Library of Parliament, Ottawa, for those who are interested), and after my degree I strongly considered joining the NHS as an Information Officer, whose role is to know exactly what everyone is trained in (and keep that training up to date) so the right specialists can cooperate together on the right cases, and to ensure that when doctors retire all their knowledge is preserved in a process called "knowledge harvesting", so that retirement doesn't result in a loss of expertise. That's less about having the right books and journals on hand than it is about managing the information in peoples heads. (There's an argument to be made that people are information, and that managing information is no different from managing people).
 
You know, aside from just the sheer WTF-ness of dropping the Orbs of Sorcery on their own, I do have to wonder how it would look next to the rest of Mathilde's academic record. I mean, people have probably gotten used to Mathilde going off on completely random research tangents, but most of those can usually be tracked to her crazy adventures. The Orbs would come pretty much out of nowhere.
 
Do we know who Cython would recruit ? Just says someone Cython would trust. Which I think means the dawi or the the We. Dawi because he has gotten to know them for being reliable and the We because it is a thinking being that likes to learn and do what he says. Also the whole predator vibe. Actually anyone ask Boney who Cython is likely to higher?
 
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