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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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mathymancer said:
Maybe an Ice Witch will have no problem spending months or years away from Kislev, maybe not. Regarding 'the part we care about', remember that our two main partners most definitely care where the magic goes: the Eonir and the Karaz Ankor both use the collected magic to power something. If they join the project they will probably demand we work on their part of the network specifically, since that's the part they care about, and we already have two different networks (at the very least) to worry about. I do think the Ice Witchs knowledge will prove useful, I just don't think we have to recruit them at this moment. But we can wait until the end of the adventure and see what their attitudes are.
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Is this a sure thing? Wouldn't the dyschronometry of the elves, the documentation of the research, and the fact that waystones are typically proximity based lead to them not wanting the testing site to be near them at all?

I do think Kislev is too far from base, but it's either replicable or not, and most everyone thinks probably not. Why would they want to prioritize their section of the network for the project?

P.S I typed analtemporal at first but thought that doesn't look english, looked it up and apparently it's dyschronometria.
 
mathymancer said:
Maybe an Ice Witch will have no problem spending months or years away from Kislev, maybe not. Regarding 'the part we care about', remember that our two main partners most definitely care where the magic goes: the Eonir and the Karaz Ankor both use the collected magic to power something. If they join the project they will probably demand we work on their part of the network specifically, since that's the part they care about, and we already have two different networks (at the very least) to worry about. I do think the Ice Witchs knowledge will prove useful, I just don't think we have to recruit them at this moment. But we can wait until the end of the adventure and see what their attitudes are.

Well, that's definitely something. But one counter example of a very powerful Ice Witch pulling something off far from Kislev doesn't completely contradict the fact that Ice Magic is intimately tied to the land of Kislev, as are the Ice Witches as an organization.
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Also, Liljiana traveled quite far from Kislev for the expedition.

And the first Ice Witches developed when the Gospodar were still on the Steppes.
 
Mopman43 said:
Also, Liljiana traveled quite far from Kislev for the expedition.

And the first Ice Witches developed when the Gospodar were still on the Steppes.
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It's End Times lore, but there were twin Ice Witch Vampires (Pale Maidens I think their name was. Neferata's Handmaidens) who fought using Ice Magic in a mountain stronghold south of Karak Azul close to the Southlands. They were wielding Ice Blades there. Still, I think it's a sign that GW never really meant to say that Ice Witches can't cast beyond their homeland or anything.
 
The lore for ice witches is weird. First they could not cast beyond Kislev. Than they could cast if there were multiple ice witches. Than it was they could cast but were weakened.
 
Swantree said:
Is this a sure thing? Wouldn't the dyschronometry of the elves, the documentation of the research, and the fact that waystones are typically proximity based lead to them not wanting the testing site to be near them at all?

I do think Kislev is too far from base, but it's either replicable or not, and most everyone thinks probably not. Why would they want to prioritize their section of the network for the project?

P.S I typed analtemporal at first but thought that doesn't look english, looked it up and apparently it's dyschronometria.
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I think they will want to prioritize their section of the network because their section of the network is the one that collects magic they actually use. Draining excess magic to the vortex is nice and all, but the Karaz Ankor needs to power their runes and the Eonir need to...I don't know, power the spells of the Grey Lords or something?

Laying the foundations isn't just the part where we collate everyone's information, it's the part where we start talking about what the project will actually be doing:
Boney said:
Once that groundwork is completed, the Project will no longer be seen as in its preparatory, recruitment phase. Once you start sending reports to the states and organizations involved, they'll start replying, hopefully with resources and information, but likely with expectations as well.
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which should give us a better idea of how viable working with the Ice Witches at this early stage will be. Boney has pointed out that bringing someone afte laying the foundations will probably be fine, so we don't need to rush it.

Mopman43 said:
Also, Liljiana traveled quite far from Kislev for the expedition.

And the first Ice Witches developed when the Gospodar were still on the Steppes.
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The second line explains the first. As Liljiana was pointing out on the way to the heist:
Boney said:
"This land was our land until the Widow called," she says, apparently for your benefit as she does so in Reikspiel. "It is not beyond the Widow's reach, and it still remembers the Bear and the Sun and the Sky, who will answer the call of Their sister."
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The bolded line does seem to indicate that the Widow's reach has a limit.
 
mathymancer said:
Maybe an Ice Witch will have no problem spending months or years away from Kislev, maybe not. Regarding 'the part we care about', remember that our two main partners most definitely care where the magic goes: the Eonir and the Karaz Ankor both use the collected magic to power something. If they join the project they will probably demand we work on their part of the network specifically, since that's the part they care about, and we already have two different networks (at the very least) to worry about. I do think the Ice Witchs knowledge will prove useful, I just don't think we have to recruit them at this moment. But we can wait until the end of the adventure and see what their attitudes are.
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OK but that makes the ice witches even more important. The Kislev leyline is the only one we know which got intentionally redirected in the last (I think) 200 years. (iirc that's when teclis came over, right? I'm assuming he would have checked the leyline in Kislev out of principle while being there, so the redirection must have happened after that.) and they want the knowledge how to make more waystones, they can adapt them later if they want but the first step is actually seeing what we all know, and Kislev apparently knows more then we thought.
 
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Reading the Rita of Taal and Ryha I got to say they are a pretty open and loving cult. Sex is not ground upon and the cult believes in not depriving oneself since that can play into Slaanesh. Since Slaanesh is the god of excess and depriving your self of something makes that excess.

Also pretty progressive when it comes to leadership. There is a man and a woman with the priestess of Ryha in charge of the cult during spring and autumn and the Preist of Taal in charge of summer and winter. Usually they try not to make any edicts against each other but it has happened. Oral tradition seems to be big among them and the list of divine lore and spells can be vastly different.

As a cult they are very subdue and try not to bring too much attention or involve themselves in politics, unless they think they need too.

Anyways I think it is Taal helping Mathilde because

  • Blessing of the Hunter: Your blessing grants someone additional skill in following trails and setting traps.
  • Blessing of Taal: Your blessing grants someone additional skill in navigation and outdoor survival.
The spells of Taal seem to be in hunting and Tall has a lot of reasons to want Drycha dead.
 
Nurgle said:
Reading the Rita of Taal and Ryha I got to say they are a pretty open and loving cult. Sex is not ground upon and the cult believes in not depriving oneself since that can play into Slaanesh. Since Slaanesh is the god of excess and depriving your self of something makes that excess.

Also pretty progressive when it comes to leadership. There is a man and a woman with the priestess of Ryha in charge of the cult during spring and autumn and the Preist of Taal in charge of summer and winter. Usually they try not to make any edicts against each other but it has happened. Oral tradition seems to be big among them and the list of divine lore and spells can be vastly different.

As a cult they are very subdue and try not to bring too much attention or involve themselves in politics, unless they think they need too.

Anyways I think it is Taal helping Mathilde because

  • Blessing of the Hunter: Your blessing grants someone additional skill in following trails and setting traps.
  • Blessing of Taal: Your blessing grants someone additional skill in navigation and outdoor survival.
The spells of Taal seem to be in hunting and Tall has a lot of reasons to want Drycha dead.
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On matters of sex yes, the Cult of Taal and Ryha is pretty chill. See also this:
Boney said:
In 4e, Rhya was given strictures that pretty much say "LGBT people are valid". They're a bit on the nose for me to make them word-for-word quest canon but I like the idea of Rhya being the protector of the queer.
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But they definitely have a darker side. You mentioned they stay out of politics, but when it comes to religious matters they are ruthlessly expansionist, crushing any Cult that has anything to do with the domain of their Gods that refuses to bow to them, leading to stuff like this. Regarding Halétha and Taal, this forest is Halétha's turf, as much as Taal claims that all forests are his:
Boney said:
She is often referred to as the Goddess of the Forest of Shadows, but specifically she is the one who protects people from the Forest of Shadows. While Taal and Rhya are those worshipped in the larger towns and cities, in the rest of Ostland many call on Halétha instead. Where Taal and Rhya is 'here's how to live in harmony with nature', Halétha is more 'there is no nature here, here's how to carve something you can live on from the darkness'.
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Hunting in a forest is Taal's thing, but hunting in this forest is Halétha's thing. From the quote above Halétha seems to teach that the Forest of Shadows isn't a natural forest that can just be treated as any other forest, and since it seems she is worshipped outside of the big cities in Ostland (which is to say in the small communities closer to the forest) I think the locals mostly agree. So I would bet that it is Halétha and not Taal helping us out, if this is divine intervention at all rather than the forest itself speaking directly to Mathilde. By the way, I'm pretty sure Halétha is yet another example of a nature God(dess) getting harrased by the Cult of Taal and Rhya, and I've talked about it here.
 
mathymancer said:
On matters of sex yes, the Cult of Taal and Ryha is pretty chill. See also this:

But they definitely have a darker side. You mentioned they stay out of politics, but when it comes to religious matters they are ruthlessly expansionist, crushing any Cult that has anything to do with the domain of their Gods that refuses to bow to them, leading to stuff like this. Regarding Halétha and Taal, this forest is Halétha's turf, as much as Taal claims that all forests are his:

Hunting in a forest is Taal's thing, but hunting in this forest is Halétha's thing. From the quote above Halétha seems to teach that the Forest of Shadows isn't a natural forest that can just be treated as any other forest, and since it seems she is worshipped outside of the big cities in Ostland (which is to say in the small communities closer to the forest) I think the locals mostly agree. So I would bet that it is Halétha and not Taal helping us out, if this is divine intervention at all rather than the forest itself speaking directly to Mathilde. By the way, I'm pretty sure Halétha is yet another example of a nature God(dess) getting harrased by the Cult of Taal and Rhya, and I've talked about it here.
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I am not sure there would be a meaningful distinction between 'the forest speaks to Mathilde' and Halétha doing the same. I mean what kind of life can a forest have? It is not a normal physical being with a brain, eyes and ears and so forth, it has to be some kind of pervasive warp presence that exists in the woods, maybe like a weaker echo of Athel Loren itself. Going by that the only benevolent presence in these woods that are known generally as a place of terror from the undead goblins and beastmen is the goddess mentioned earlier.

If that is the case and if she is a daughter of Ranald she might even know the mark of her father on Mathilde, after all we need the face o the coin to make her followers trust her, but it is not like a literal god would fail to notice the divine artifact we carry around... or the fact that Mathilde is the mortal for which Ranald fought Khorne of all things.
 
DragonParadox said:
I am not sure there would be a meaningful distinction between 'the forest speaks to Mathilde' and Halétha doing the same. I mean what kind of life can a forest have? It is not a normal physical being with a brain, eyes and ears and so forth, it has to be some kind of pervasive warp presence that exists in the woods, maybe like a weaker echo of Athel Loren itself. Going by that the only benevolent presence in these woods that are known generally as a place of terror from the undead goblins and beastmen is the goddess mentioned earlier.

If that is the case and if she is a daughter of Ranald she might even know the mark of her father on Mathilde, after all we need the face o the coin to make her followers trust her, but it is not like a literal god would fail to notice the divine artifact we carry around... or the fact that Mathilde is the mortal for which Ranald fought Khorne of all things.
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I also lean towards this being Halétha rather than the forest, because as you say the forest seems malevolent. But I think the forest is probably a kind of warp being, exactly because it has been directly compared to Athel Loren. Also see this line about the forest rejecting Drycha:
Boney said:
There is a wisp of Ulgu here that is very much not of the namesake of the forest, and the forest is resisting all attempts of it to blend in to its shadows, giving you tiny glimpses of it out of the corner of your soul.
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It could also be that 'the Forest of Shadows' is just a collective of many local spirits. This is Kislev, after all, local spirits are definitely a thing.

And while I definitely think Halétha is Ranald's daughter, I don't think that is needed to explain her intervention here. We are working to thwart an evil in the Forest of Shadows, Halétha might help just because this is her thing, same as when Taal (probably) helped us take down Alberich.
 
ReImagined said:
In pure technical skill, sure, but funnily enough the Rune of Superior Skill disabling all enchantments means Mathilde should have an unexpected edge against units that normally equip themselves with magical swords.
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How magic the Swordmasters blades actually are is not clear, but they don't seem to be enough so that it would affect their wielder's skill. Also, the Rune of Superior Skill only activates if you hit the opponent. To my understanding that would mean them blocking with a sword or shield or what have you would prevent it activating.

Codex said:
It is a space time cut and a lightsaber. The Old Ones had an aesthetic, and it's most obvious when it comes to the Amazon's equipment. Their kit looks like they came out of Star Wars.
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Eh, you can block the Blade though. Also, nothing really indicates it's not got a physical blade. Mechanically it ignores armour and ward saves, but doesn't wound automatically, which means it's possible to get hit by it, but not hurt so badly it matters.

veekie said:
If they are specialized in analysis and countering yes.

The more straightforward approach is to just abandon parrying and go full aggro, something most blademasters can have a shot at.

Getting clever with counters and feints is suited to a dueling environment, but anyone who cut their teeth on open battle would know just going even more aggressive usually works.
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I don't think someone would really need to be specialized to figure out the trick. Sure, 90% of competent fighters will just push harder and hope they can kill Mathilde before the trick makes a telling difference, but the setting does lend itself to people who are simply good enough to figure out a way to compensate on the fly. Like, Hellebron and Tyrion and people of that kind of skill and talent are people who exist in Warhammer.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Eh, you can block the Blade though. Also, nothing really indicates it's not got a physical blade. Mechanically it ignores armour and ward saves, but doesn't wound automatically, which means it's possible to get hit by it, but not hurt so badly it matters.
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I assume that's literally because they wouldn't allow for such a weapon to exist. No weapon in the game ignores Armor Saves, Ward Saves, and auto wounds, that's just ridiculous. It's already 100 points, I'd imagine it would jump anywhere from 150-200 if it got something like that. In a narrative situation, you have to consider what the flavor text says. The flavor text says it exists in every dimension and can slice through anything, even conceptual things like the soul. I see no reason why the blade would not just go through anything.
 
For what it is worth the potential of lizardman space tech was one of the reasons why I voted for Swamp Town... horrible name by the way.

@Boney as far as Mathilde knows did anyone ever try to rebrand Swamp Town or did all its governors come to hate it enough that they thought it deserved to be known for that it is? :V
 
DragonParadox said:
For what it is worth the potential of lizardman space tech was one of the reasons why I voted for Swamp Town... horrible name by the way.

@Boney as far as Mathilde knows did anyone ever try to rebrand Swamp Town or did all its governors come to hate it enough that they thought it deserved to be known for that it is? :V
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Pretty much every governor has tried to make some new name stick, but none have succeeded.
 
It's very hard to get people to accept a new name for a town made on top of a swamp named "Swamp Town". There's something to be said for honest simplicity.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Like, Hellebron and Tyrion and people of that kind of skill and talent are people who exist in Warhammer.
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If we're fighting Hellebron or Tyrion, something has gone very, very wrong. That would be basically a death sentence. Personally I'd vote to run the hell away under any circumstances, except if not sacrificing ourselves would mean the end of the Empire or Karaz Ankor. I don't think such an occurrence could happen.
 
K von Carstein said:
If we're fighting Hellebron or Tyrion, something has gone very, very wrong. That would be basically a death sentence. Personally I'd vote to run the hell away under any circumstances, except if not sacrificing ourselves would mean the end of the Empire or Karaz Ankor. I don't think such an occurrence could happen.
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Yes, but abnormal fighting styles in general aren't a uncommon thing in WH. So adaptability is key in a good fighter. If you only can fight human fighters with normal weaponry your probably a OK city guard but nothing more. WH fighters need to be able to fight other humans, elfs, dwarfs, orcs, goblin, chaos daemons, vampires, beast men, Ogres, druchii, trees and other stuff. And anyone of those can have diverse weaponry and esoteric effects.
If you can't adapt to an enemy your a dead fighter in WHF

Edit: I have forgotten skeletons, ghosts, giant bat's, wild griffons, dragons, giant wolf's, giant spiders and assorted wildlife.
I don't mean normal soldiers, thos have the advantage of numbers for all of those. I'm mostly talking about fighters that Mathilde would meet in single combat and can't just easily defeat in one attack.
 
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Calling the Blade of Realities a lightsaber is silly. There are multiple materials that can block lightsabers in star wars.
Nothing blocks the Blade of Realities.
Also it looks a one-sided macuahuitl.
 
StormySky said:
Huh, going back over old discussions, I didn't see this on the list of trophies. Maybe we just rolled poorly for whether there were any intact and untainted banners?
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Boney decided against it.

Boney said:
ReImagined said:
@Boney Any word on trophies from the Kul encampment? The last entry on the character sheet goes up to Seventh and Final Combe, but I believe there was some mention of banners or silks from the Kul.
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I considered it and eventually decided against it. There's too many balls still up in the air from that for it to feel like something ready to be nailed to the wall.
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So... given that we are more of less waiting for an update, I thought I would put some more long term questions to the thread:

What do we do with the EIC?
This is the big one, full discomposure Before the prospect of having Eike as our apprentice came up I was on the lobby to just get rid of the whole thing, I did not think it was worth the AP cost, but now that we do have her and it will be her inheritance not just from her grandmother but also from Mathilde we can look at what do do it in a more long term PoV and I think we should.

So what are our short term options and where might they lead in the long term?

[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in your fief.

These two are part of more of an intrigue focus. The EIC does not need an underground lair or a subsidiary among the goats unless we make use of that to make them better at spying.

[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.

This is more of an economic focus. I think we should take this eventually no question about it and before the canal hits with its expansion of business, but at the same time I do not think it is urgent

[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (specify who)

This is the long standing 'use them as back up in our own stuff'. We used it last turn to little effect, so we should keep in mind that for the more mystical stuff a bunch of merchants are not the best to solve matters

[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.

This... I mean yeah we can call this in service of the empire, but realistically it is more about stronger growth inside Stirland, not a bad choice by any means and would fit in well after the audit. Get our own house in order before hunting the rats in other people's walls.

[ ] EIC: Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (optional: specify how)
[ ] EIC: Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries so that they can be more easily hired if needed.

These are more of a military focus and they are good for both the economy and to an extend for diplomacy. We could for instance suggest good mercenary companies for Hold retaking... but it us going to be a long time until the Karaz Ankor has the manpower to make such a push. At most we may be looking at that middle mountains expedition of Thorek and I am not sure if shoving mercs in there is s a good idea.

[ ] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)

Here we have our latest option, a diplo/economy action that would fit really well in making the EIC richer and more able to provide varied goods and services. Hell it might even be a way to get in good with the current Ulrican allies of the Eonir and it would not be a bad thing to have friends up north as well as in the south.

Goat Fief... Just Goat Fief
We touched on that a little above, but I think it is worth noting two other things about the place, firstly we have a lot of money just sitting there that we could grab and secondly we have not made any improvements to the place for decades. Our resources have rather dramatically changed since then, specifically in the fact that we have a slowly accumulating pile of CF we do not know that to do with. If we are going to do hidden ninja village might it not be worth it to do it with magic weapons? Those Kurgan weapons would make a good start and there are around a dozen of them, but also we could use CF to pay for a slow ramping up of a squad of elite operatives... the short of people who you can send off to look into magical trouble with some hope of coming back with useful intel.

What do you guys think?
 
I feel like the intrigue options would be a good choice eventually, if not for us then as a way to build a network for Eike to inherit for her own Grey shenanigans.
 
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