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It's crazy to me that the whole fief was a thing.

From what I read and remember of the discussion, people just thought getting knighted would bypass a whole lot of flak from being a wizard, that and being a wizard and a knight at the same time would be cool.

The knighting ceremony was neat and the knighthood was just for the title really. The fief was just a out of the way territory that Abelheim knew would get by without us, it was a formality.

Then it was visited once and turns out there was a whole community there, there was import and export, a lumberjack that's illiterate and his son who's not. I think we built a well? Would be crazy if Mathilde made it into an urbanized city because she used it as a cache to avoid the college tax.
 
Then it was visited once and turns out there was a whole community there, there was import and export, a lumberjack that's illiterate and his son who's not. I think we built a well? Would be crazy if Mathilde made it into an urbanized city because she used it as a cache to avoid the college tax.
Except Mathilde does not have to pay tax anymore.
 
What do we do with the EIC?
The EIC's information network could have been a very useful tool for Spymistress Weber. It was significantly less useful to Loremaster Weber, and it might be even less useful to us now that we are based in a part of the Empire where it has no presence. But to the Grey Order it could be a powerful asset, and I agree that we should make sure that it is in good order if Eike does decide to inherit the EIC.
Something that needs to be considered is that once Eike inherits Wilhelmina's stocks the Grey Order will have a majority of shares (56%). This could be a problem: merchants are already concerned about the EIC's position as a trade organization that may or may not double as an arm of the Empire's intelligence services:
"There's currently no overlap between our interests, but that's likely to change in the near future as we extend westwards. What we'd like to know-" he pauses and licks his lips nervously, a stark contrast with his confident and likely practiced speech. "-is what competition between Ostermark trade interests and Stirlandian ones would represent, precisely. Considering that..." he pauses again, and you keep your gaze level on his as he fumbles his words. "Considering the, uh. Considering."

Considering that you are a terrifying snarl of competing powers and limitations, he might have been about to say. Or words to that effect. You lean back in your chair and consider him while you digest the question, trying to decide whether it represents a nervous query or a cunning threat. The - what was he, a Baronet? In the sense of the son of a baron, or as an honourary non-landed title? You can't remember which Ostermark uses. Whatever he is, he's clearly very nervous, but you can't tell whether it's the nervousness of someone who hasn't seen their comfort zone for months and is now talking to a wizard, or it's the nervousness of someone who's delivering a veiled threat to a being that could obliterate him.

The naive read on the situation is that a trade interest - which the nobles of Ostermark often cooperated as - might be nervous about going up against a rival backed by a Grey Wizard, and are asking permission to start competing without it being treated as interfering with an obscure wing of the Empire's intelligence apparatus. A slightly more thoughtful analysis might consider their question to be asking whether to lock swords with Shareholder Mathilde would also earn the enmity of Dame Weber, or whether competing with Loremaster Weber might by extension be working against Karak Eight Peaks, which might jeopardize Ostermark's relationship with Karak Kadrin. But the sufficiently paranoid wizard might take the question as a veiled but very real jab at Magister Weber, who is bound by the Articles of Imperial Magic and the oaths of the Grey Order. A warning shot to say that Ostermark is coming downriver, and if the EIC stands in their way, to a certain point of view that could be seen as a Grey Wizard interfering with the legitimate business of an Elector Count for their own personal profit. Which is the sort of thing that gets the Bursar very tetchy indeed.
Once it is not just a singular Grey Wizard but the majority of shareholders other merchants may decide they are better off not interacting with the EIC at all. On that note, this option
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
is a truly terrible idea, in my opinion. Using the intelligence arm of the EIC to hurt its business rivals all but ensures that no one will ever want to work with the EIC or let it get a foothold anywhere near them. Everyone has something to hide, certainly any merchant big enough to be a rival to the EIC. This could seriously hurt the ability of the EIC to function as a trade organization, which is a problem for its ability to function as an intelligence network as well, since the network of merchants and such is what allows us to plant EIC agents in the first place.
I don't know if it is possible, but we might want to keep the fact that Eike is a Grey Wizard a secret. I imagine the Grey Order does that kind of thing from time to time, and that way the above problems could be avoided. If it's not possible, we might need to have a long and serious conversation with the Bursar about the future of the EIC.

[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
I agree with your take. Also note that the spider silk business is another reason for an auditors divison, if we get any indication that it's going to start anytime soon we should go ahead and take that option.

[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in your fief.
On the subject of the HQ, I've made the case for the Sunken Palace as our shadow HQ and I can make it again if anyone wants to debate it. The fief should be left alone: we should visit, absolutely, but I don't feel any need to transform a peaceful community into a weapon for us to use. I would much rather let them live in peace.

[ ] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (specify who)
If something comes up we can use it, but at the moment I think there are no good targets for this.

[ ] EIC: Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (optional: specify how)
[ ] EIC: Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries so that they can be more easily hired if needed.
Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries isn't a terrible choice in my opinion but I feel like it's pretty low priority. If we have a shadow HQ and an auditors divison and there isn't anything to do with the EIC with the moment I guess we can do it.
The EIC's navy already exists, and I don't think there's any particular reason to expand it at the moment.

[ ] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
EIC trade with the Eonir is a double edged sword. On the one hand it could be really good to connect the Eonir to the Empire through trade: it could weaken the isolationist factions and make war less profitable and thus less likely, and once the EIC has presence in Laurelorn we can have our agents keep an ear to the ground and give Mathilde a better picture of the attitudes of the Eonir cityborn regarding the Empire. On the other hand this might not be so simple: Nordland's position is that Laurelorn is a part of Nordland, so they could heavily tax us and us refusing to pay could easily be painted as taking sides in a dispute between Electors, which would be a violation of our oaths. If we're not careful the EIC could end up stepping on some Eonir toes, and if any of those toes belong to Great Houses that voted for contact with the Empire that could make them change their minds and that's the end of the project right there. Also, the EIC has little presence in the vicinity of Laurelorn - I think the closest location with EIC presence is southern Middenland?
All that said, note that this action just checks what the Eonir want to import and doesn't commit to actually being the ones importing it. So we can take this action, I just think we need to be careful on how we follow it up.

On the Kurgan weapons: those don't belong in the EIC agents, I don't think. Those are spies, not assassination squads. That said, we should wait until we research them before we talk more on this.
 
Once it is not just a singular Grey Wizard but the majority of shareholders other merchants may decide they are better off not interacting with the EIC at all.
Boney's last response to this topic:
There will undoubtedly be problems. But Eike is booked in to spend the next decade developing a skillset that will be able to overcome those problems. And the Grey Order is not forbidden from getting involved in politics and economics, they're required to act for the betterment of the Empire as a whole when they do get involved, rather than benefiting individuals at the expense of the Empire.

I think the closest location with EIC presence is southern Middenland?
According to this, yes.
Minor presence in interstate trade in Averland, Wissenland, and southern Middenland.
 
Boney's last response to this topic:
That is very reassuring, I wasn't aware of that quote. I do still think that the action where the EIC spies on its rivals is the kind of thing that will be more trouble than it's worth, for the reasons I got into in the post.

According to this, yes.
I did look at the threadmark so I know the EIC has presence in southern Middenland, what I wasn't entirely sure about is whether it's the closest location to Laurelorn out of the list.
 
EIC trade with the Eonir is a double edged sword. On the one hand it could be really good to connect the Eonir to the Empire through trade: it could weaken the isolationist factions and make war less profitable and thus less likely, and once the EIC has presence in Laurelorn we can have our agents keep an ear to the ground and give Mathilde a better picture of the attitudes of the Eonir cityborn regarding the Empire. On the other hand this might not be so simple: Nordland's position is that Laurelorn is a part of Nordland, so they could heavily tax us and us refusing to pay could easily be painted as taking sides in a dispute between Electors, which would be a violation of our oaths. If we're not careful the EIC could end up stepping on some Eonir toes, and if any of those toes belong to Great Houses that voted for contact with the Empire that could make them change their minds and that's the end of the project right there. Also, the EIC has little presence in the vicinity of Laurelorn - I think the closest location with EIC presence is southern Middenland?
All that said, note that this action just checks what the Eonir want to import and doesn't commit to actually being the ones importing it. So we can take this action, I just think we need to be careful on how we follow it up.

Norland's position can go suck a lemon, if you take the EIC trading with the Eonir as 'taking sides' than the Waystone project, which is the direct aid of a Grey Wizard Lady definitely is. That said I do think we should be careful of the Great Houses, though not to the point of avoiding the action, because as you said this is not an action for starting up trade, just looking into the matter.

On the Kurgan weapons: those don't belong in the EIC agents, I don't think. Those are spies, not assassination squads. That said, we should wait until we research them before we talk more on this.

They are spies now, but on the other hand they do operate in Stirland and Silvania. I think there is a place for magically armed guards, just as there is for guards in general. Think about messengers who get caught out by the Chaos Moon on their route. That thing does not follow a predictable orbit, in the words of one particularly cogent, but also funny post, it is stalking the planet. On that night there are beastmen, zombies and horrors out of the deep woods all of which can be stabbed with steel, but also specters and ghosts which cannot. For that purpose the kinds of cavalry weapons the Kurgans would use might be particularly good.
 
Norland's position can go suck a lemon, if you take the EIC trading with the Eonir as 'taking sides' than the Waystone project, which is the direct aid of a Grey Wizard Lady definitely is. That said I do think we should be careful of the Great Houses, though not to the point of avoiding the action, because as you said this is not an action for starting up trade, just looking into the matter.
We're walking a fine line with Nordland. We're arguably antagonizing them right now but let's think before we go any further. Also, the Elector Count of Nordland may not really care about some weird wizard research project, but he definitely cares about trade.

They are spies now, but on the other hand they do operate in Stirland and Silvania. I think there is a place for magically armed guards, just as there is for guards in general. Think about messengers who get caught out by the Chaos Moon on their route. That thing does not follow a predictable orbit, in the words of one particularly cogent, but also funny post, it is stalking the planet. On that night there are beastmen, zombies and horrors out of the deep woods all of which can be stabbed with steel, but also specters and ghosts which cannot. For that purpose the kinds of cavalry weapons the Kurgans would use might be particularly good.
What you're saying is mostly an argument for why Stirland needs magical weapons (and now that you brought it up I kind of like the idea of dropping a pile of magical weapons on Rosie as an apology for not taking the position of Edgelord). But again, let's actually research them before we talk about it.
 
Once it is not just a singular Grey Wizard but the majority of shareholders other merchants may decide they are better off not interacting with the EIC at all. On that note, this option
Doubt it we be a problem so long as the EIC is the best or only choice. In our world every merchant is a spy collecting data on you. We use them anyway.
 
We're walking a fine line with Nordland. We're arguably antagonizing them right now but let's think before we go any further. Also, the Elector Count of Nordland may not really care about some weird wizard research project, but he definitely cares about trade.

It is wort keeping in mind that one of the major reasons Norland is constantly moving in on the Eonir and breaking the treaties are the Waytrees with gold ans silver roots. It is one of the principal purposes of the Project to protect those trees. I do no think facilitating trade is going to be any worse than that as far as the EC of Norland is concerned.
 
Doubt it we be a problem so long as the EIC is the best or only choice. In our world every merchant is a spy collecting data on you. We use them anyway.
Our world is not the world Mathilde lives in. Mathilde belongs to the secret police of the Empire, and the trade empire she owns a part of was built on the bones of the Stirlandian League, the members of which Mathilde had executed. The update with Baronet Willus Husserl of the Ostermark League is very clear about just how terrifying the prospect of dealing with a Grey Wizard is to a noble, and unless my memory is really failing me here there are numerous comments by Boney about this issue which confirms that it is in fact an issue.
 
I'd be careful with the trade with the eonir, Nordland might not like it and we can ignore that partially but middenland also might not like it and their a bigger problem. Middenland invested quite a bit into this alliance with Laurelorn anf for stirland to butt in might annoy them.
As for the EIC I am also advocating for a headquarters (and we really don't use the old sunken Palast anymore) because I think that would allow us to specifically build up the spy network.
 
Our world is not the world Mathilde lives in. Mathilde belongs to the secret police of the Empire, and the trade empire she owns a part of was built on the bones of the Stirlandian League, the members of which Mathilde had executed. The update with Baronet Willus Husserl of the Ostermark League is very clear about just how terrifying the prospect of dealing with a Grey Wizard is to a noble, and unless my memory is really failing me here there are numerous comments by Boney about this issue which confirms that it is in fact an issue.

The EIC has sufficient connections to Karak Eight Peaks (and if we invest into that possibly the Eonir) that it'd simply be unprofitable for all merchants to cease doing business. The EIC could end up as a sort of partly 'state owned enterprise' - that doesn't mean people aren't going to want Cathay silk, dwarf weapons or whatever the Eonir might be selling.

Those Kurgan weapons would make a good start and there are around a dozen of them, but also we could use CF to pay for a slow ramping up of a squad of elite operatives... the short of people who you can send off to look into magical trouble with some hope of coming back with useful intel.

What do you guys think?

Rather than trying for the fief wouldn't it make more sense to outfit a personal squad out of Karak Eight Peaks? Pick a handful of the best former mercenaries and rangers available, load them to the teeth with runework and magic items and have an elite group ready to support whatever Mathilde wants to undertake.

The Grey College does have some sort of Knightly Order attached if I remember correctly so there'd be precedent for it.
 
I'd be careful with the trade with the eonir, Nordland might not like it and we can ignore that partially but middenland also might not like it and their a bigger problem. Middenland invested quite a bit into this alliance with Laurelorn anf for stirland to butt in might annoy them.
As for the EIC I am also advocating for a headquarters (and we really don't use the old sunken Palast anymore) because I think that would allow us to specifically build up the spy network.
We can always lean into the power of corruption. One or two noble insiders as partners and we could make it into an internal struggle that enriches and empowers factions not interested in being killed by elves instead of trading for lembas bread or something.

It'd be a touchy project, but not an impossible one to make work.
 
We can always lean into the power of corruption. One or two noble insiders as partners and we could make it into an internal struggle that enriches and empowers factions not interested in being killed by elves instead of trading for lembas bread or something.

It'd be a touchy project, but not an impossible one to make work.
It be a bit too touchy and not something we could square away with "helping the empire" as we do most of our crazy ideas.
And I think the elector count of middenland and the Ar ulric might get annoyed at us or the EIC anyway.
 
One thing about the mercenary option to keep in mind.

for the last two missions we had a easy time getting higher support because we were helping people with their own problems.

But once the waystone project is underway, there is going to be a lot of fieldwork, from dungeon crawling to guarding any waystone we are studying from beatman and orcs.

and the local Baron or Duke or merchant prince will probably not care.

Now, as a Lady wizard, we do have the right to go into a local barracks in the empire and rustle up some soldiers, and Mathy being mathy can probably get some help from the local dwarfs (except the ones we helped bully into giving up their old house keys). but that's two (big) nations in the whole old world.

But being able to quickly hire manpower for at the start of a 'job' (as I'm going to call these mini arcs) instead of having to spend AP and plan it out beforehand might be useful going forward.
 
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Actually: here is a question for the thread.

What things does 'Waystone Project Mathy' needs that 'Advisor Mathy' did not?

Like, what things were very 'meh' as options before that now have more use, and the other way around?

Like, for example, keeping track of mercenaries with the ETC. I never thought it was worth doing when we were a advisor as if we needed man(dwarf) power would could always ask the boss.

But now that we are doing things 'on our own' more, I want the option to find local mercs fast.
 
We are going to need a organization help or cult help. We need guards, soldiers , scouts , money and more. Actually Taal and Ryha cult may be of help since they have a lot of followers in the woods and are a major cult. But yeah we thought the Waystone project was going to be a lot of academia and politics, but it seems to be a lot more miniature adventures or take for Mathilde. We have had to bribe Thorek already and two of the colleges. In the future we will also have to bribe other factions.
 
Yeah, so a mix of academic theory, politicking, and tromping around in the field (whether that's from in-person Waystone studies or favor trading).
 
Voting closed, writing has begun.

Adhoc vote count started by Boney on Mar 5, 2022 at 2:31 PM, finished with 1510 posts and 225 votes.
 
Diceroll post
Boney threw 2 100-faced dice. Reason: Spot checks - Mathilde, Drycha Total: 51
24 24 27 27
Boney threw 2 100-faced dice. Reason: Stealth - Mathilde, Drycha Total: 90
21 21 69 69
Boney threw 2 100-faced dice. Reason: Woodsmen v Dryads Total: 86
72 72 14 14
Boney threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Mathilde int check Total: 10
10 10
 
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