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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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As far as I can see, if Eike is reasonably happy as she is then magic dampeners are the best solution for the time being.

As far as I know the college takes apprentices of any age. So as long as Eike can be trusted to not experiment, there is no reason that she cannot come to the Colleges later in life.

Now if she has a strong preference for magic or can't be trusted not to experiment, then a college or the priesthood might be better. Note she was strongly associating things with various religious rites.

Edit: So far I'm not sure she's set out for Grey Wizarding. Wilhelmina has been teaching her to be honest (if sharp) in her business dealings, so she might struggle with the twisty nature of the college. It is also likely to cause her issues with the vow of poverty even if they can sort of be gotten around.
 
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Look, to those who want Eike to study Ulgu and become Mathilde's apprentice, I'm gonna have to point out that it's not guarantueed that she'll end up with us. There are plenty of other magisters out there, and we're not really well-versed enough in College politics to tell whether or not someone would try to swipe her from us.

So if we want to be absolutely sure Eike ends up in our care, we'll have to find a Lore of Magic where there's less competition...
 
DragonParadox said:
You know what at the end of the day this is a story and I think that the narrative of Eike becoming a Grey under our tutelage is just too interesting to pass off. I mean it was literally a 1 in 100 chance for this to happen. Why pass it up? It would be sort of cool to make the EIC a grey order thing, which would have the double benefit as far as I am concerned of making the thing actually interesting. Yeah all in all I think I will vote Grey.
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It's not our natural 100 though. It's Eike's. She's the one who gets the spark of magic, not us.

For every other option, Eikie would be a future coworker who happens to have magic. Only the apprentice option benefits Mathilde directly. But it's not our future we're deciding here; it's someone else's story. Why monofocus on how we can benefit from taking on Eike as an apprentice? Mathild often works with and has great respect for her fellow non-Grey wizards. The only way the other options are inferior is that they don't keep Eike under our personal thumb and attention.

[ ] Wizard
- [ ] Let Eike decide

There are no bad options here. (Besides Amethyst.) Even the Amber Brotherhood has administrators as seen in Dragomas. But if you want to avoid becoming a Perpetual, you need to pick a College that best fits your personality, your magic, or both. (Remember, if Ulgu is a bad fit, she doesn't become our Apprentice or a Magister.) And Mathilde just doesn't know Eike well enough to make that judgement. Neither does Wilhemina, really. What Mathilde is in a great position to do, with her Magesight and experience, is advise. We can give Eike as clearsighted and informed a choice as possible, far more than most Magisters. And I think I'd like to give her that choice.
 
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BoneyM said:
That's the correct translation if Kazrik was using proper grammar, but it's not uncommon for Dwarves to use -it as a diminutive of the root plus -i even though formal grammar would argue that that Kazrik should have said 'Utkalanikit' instead. It literally meaning something like 'little clanmate', or in this case, 'little sibling'. Kazrik was joking that that's the only form of address he's needed for Princes since the only ones he knows are his little brothers, but Eike thought he was being serious and called the Prince her little bro.
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And, in doing so, made Kazrik think she's adorable, by all acounts (did she get informally adopted into the Karak Azul clans, or was that just how it appeared?).

Suspected as much, glad to have it confirmed.
 
Omegahugger said:
Look, to those who want Eike to study Ulgu and become Mathilde's apprentice, I'm gonna have to point out that it's not guarantueed that she'll end up with us. There are plenty of other magisters out there, and we're not really well-versed enough in College politics to tell whether or not someone would try to swipe her from us.

So if we want to be absolutely sure Eike ends up in our care, we'll have to find a Lore of Magic where there's less competition...
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It's pretty traditional for Greys to be apprenticed to the Wizard who finds them.
 
I'll be honest, even if I wasn't really hungry for Mathilde to get an apprentice and wanted to see teacher Mathilde, I would definitely be in favor of having more Eike in our life. She's absolutely adorable. Yeah, let her make her own choice... but nothing says we can't make the Grey College sound really appealing.
Omegahugger said:
Look, to those who want Eike to study Ulgu and become Mathilde's apprentice, I'm gonna have to point out that it's not guarantueed that she'll end up with us. There are plenty of other magisters out there, and we're not really well-versed enough in College politics to tell whether or not someone would try to swipe her from us.

So if we want to be absolutely sure Eike ends up in our care, we'll have to find a Lore of Magic where there's less competition...
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While I get what you're putting down, I imagine people would notice if we bring in an apprentice, and then start taking lessons on teaching immediately after, or just before she's due to be picked up by someone. And while we're not particularly involved in College Politics, that mostly just means there's nobody around who would be invested enough to try and steal from a Lady Magister.
 
Humbaba said:
As far as I can see, if Eike is reasonably happy as she is then magic dampeners are the best solution for the time being.

As far as I know the college takes apprentices of any age. So as long as Eike can be trusted to not experiment, there is no reason that she cannot come to the Colleges later in life.

Now if she has a strong preference for magic or can't be trusted not to experiment, then a college or the priesthood might be better. Note she was strongly associating things with various religious rites.

Edit: So far I'm not sure she's set out for Grey Wizarding. Wilhelmina has been teaching her to be honest (if sharp) in her business dealings, so she might struggle with the twisty nature of the college. It is also likely to cause her issues with the vow of poverty even if they can sort of be gotten around.
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I disagree on parts of that: It's precisely because she's so honest that I think Ulgu could be a decent fit. Teclis specifically chose those least likely to be tempted to use it for their own gain for the Grey College. Eike having a strong Moral Core is a benefit there, since it means she's never going to abuse that power.

Also, Ulgu honestly lets her stick to Shallya and her codes quite well, if used right. Lots of focus on Staying sneaky and out of sight, or Mindholing people to avoid getting rid of witnesses. We might use it for Ranger antics and shanking enemy forces, but she doesn't have to take that same path.
 
NavySeel said:
It's pretty traditional for Greys to be apprenticed to the Wizard who finds them.
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Yes, it's traditional. Traditions get broken all the time, that's why they're traditions and not rules.

... Ignore dwarves. Dwarves are silly buggers who can't tell the difference between a mountain and a lawful document, they clearly can't be used to judge how often traditions are followed.
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
I disagree on parts of that: It's precisely because she's so honest that I think Ulgu could be a decent fit. Teclis specifically chose those least likely to be tempted to use it for their own gain for the Grey College. Eike having a strong Moral Core is a benefit there, since it means she's never going to abuse that power.

Also, Ulgu honestly lets her stick to Shallya and her codes quite well, if used right. Lots of focus on Staying sneaky and out of sight, or Mindholing people to avoid getting rid of witnesses. We might use it for Ranger antics and shanking enemy forces, but she doesn't have to take that same path.
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Not to mention that Mathilde is pretty honest—for a Grey Wizard at least—and we could probably teach her how to keep to a code while still being tricky.
BoneyM said:
Jokingly adopted, with a side of being buttered up as a likely future VIP. Informally adopted would be a level beyond that, and a much more serious matter.
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...I think I know what's going to happen when we get to Karak Vlag. :V
 
Omegahugger said:
Look, to those who want Eike to study Ulgu and become Mathilde's apprentice, I'm gonna have to point out that it's not guarantueed that she'll end up with us. There are plenty of other magisters out there, and we're not really well-versed enough in College politics to tell whether or not someone would try to swipe her from us.
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College politics is probably discouraged to some degree in the Grey Order, but I would like to see who thinks it's a good idea to swipe the apprentice a magister lord wants. It just sounds like way more trouble than it's worth, and we haven't really made any enemies in the order afaik.

Think I'm leaning harder to "Let Eike decide" just cause that might be more likely to have her end up with a wind she is suited to. Given that she is a Shallyan the Jade Order might end up being her choice.
 
Omegahugger said:
Look, to those who want Eike to study Ulgu and become Mathilde's apprentice, I'm gonna have to point out that it's not guarantueed that she'll end up with us. There are plenty of other magisters out there, and we're not really well-versed enough in College politics to tell whether or not someone would try to swipe her from us.
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Mathilde is senior to all but 7 people in the Grey College. She can just pre-pick an apprentice and then be undisputed unless Algard intervenes because she outranks other claimants.

On the flip side I'm quite sure that there's a lot of competition in that other Lore. Particularly stiff competition due to all the vampires (and Mathilde would be junior to most of them as well).
 
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Derpmind said:
For every other option, Eikie would be a future coworker who happens to have magic. Only the apprentice option benefits Mathilde directly. But it's not our future we're deciding here; it's someone else's story. Why monofocus on how we can benefit from taking on Eike as an apprentice? Mathild often works with and has great respect for her fellow non-Grey wizards. The only way the other options are inferior is that they don't keep Eike under our personal thumb and attention.
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Most of the arguments I've seen brought up for Eike as an apprentice outside the Obvious "She's adorable" tend to be how she can leverage Mathildes position to gain greater connections to the Dwarfs. Master Apprentice system inherently makes sense to them, and being known as the apprentice of the Dawizhufokri would ensure she's more amenable to them, thus helping her with the EIC. It could also help give her a better insight into how to deal with other cultures, which in turn would help her use the EIC in ways that could be hugely beneficial.

Side note, I really see Eike using the EIC in a way that's probably in line with Shallya, regardless of what we choose. She doesn't seem particularly interested in money in comparison to Wilhemina, who whilst wanting to create something sustainable is definitely driven by profit.


henkalv said:
Think I'm leaning harder to "Let Eike decide" just cause that might be more likely to have her end up with a wind she is suited to. Given that she is a Shallyan the Jade Order might end up being her choice.
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I'd be more down for Letting her choose, but unfortunately Boney had to make her absolutely adorable, and thus only seeing her maybe once for a small excerpt every 2-3 turns is anathema to me.

Let me recreate Owl House Godammit!
 
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BoneyM said:
You take a moment in a Dwarven bar adjoining the entrance hall for Eike to regain her breath and composure over a mug of small beer,
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Did you mean a small mug of beer or do they actually have some kind of more child friendly beer called "small beer"?

BoneyM said:
"Leave her with me and I'll take her around, I've got some family business to deal with with the local Clans, and there's enough Azul Dwarves here at the moment that we've got the Clan kitchens operational, so there's going to be dinner here later. Some of them haven't been up north yet, so Eike should be popular."
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Did Eike speak any basic amounts of Khazalid or do the Azul Dwarves actually speak Reikspiel with some irregularity.

In either case, she at the very least learned a few words and phrases now. Khazalid has a lot of complicated intricacies, but the very basics aren't too hard to grasp.
BoneyM said:
She thinks about that. "She's a friend of Rhya?"

You spend a moment thinking she's commenting on the internal religious conflict of the Jade Order before you remember the euphemism for someone who prefers the company of the same gender. "Yes, I suppose we both are," you say
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That's nice. If one of the first things people associate with lesbians is that they are on good terms with the Empire's prime married fertility goddess, then there's little anyone could complain about.

The only less then ideal connotation I can think of is that sometimes lesbians are expected to marry a man just like Rhya did. But we knew that already.
BoneyM said:
- I'll decide whether Mathilde suggests just one thing, or multiple things, or one thing primarily and other things as less preferable alternatives, based on how the voting turns out. So simply vote for whichever option or options you think are best.
- You can vote for sub-options of Wizard without voting for Wizard itself, if you would like to do so. This will make Wizard no less likely to win, but will mean your vote for the Order will count if Wizard does win.
- So. Eike's a Wizard. Sounds contrived, right? What are the odds? In this case, they're exactly one in a hundred, as one eagle-eyed reader spotted a fortnight ago. Maybe Ranald is real.
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The QM still isn't sure whether Ranald is real? Crazy.

Two more questions:

How compatible is joining the clergy with becoming the head/heir of the EIC?

Depending on who else we could have voted to meet, was there any chance that Mathilde wouldn't have noticed? Like if we had chosen three non-supernatural people for instance? Or would that have been too boring and sad of an option after a one in a hundred chance?
 
Rafin said:
Did you mean a small mug of beer or do they actually have some kind of more child friendly beer called "small beer"?
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I think small beer is just low-alcohol beer. Or possibly gin, but that doesn't seem very likely in this context.
 
NSMS said:
I think small beer is just low-alcohol beer. Or possibly gin, but that doesn't seem very likely in this context.
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Small beer is beer in smaller mug usually. Or alternatively low content, but this is honestly first time i am hearing of it. But Dwarven Ales work on entirely different paradigm than normal alcohol anyway.
 
If Eike becomes a Grey, it'll solidify Azul's opinion that the Greys are the merchant wizards.

Anyway, Eike's magic is a gift from (meta-)Ranald, and should be treated as such. Either take her as an apprentice, or make her a Shallyan priest. Shallya and Ranald get along well, after all. Though Ranald will really have to hustle if he wants to hook her up with Mandred.
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Technically we're a dwarf now according to the high king.
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I know it's been said, but it's not the case. Specifically, being a dwarf isn't what allows you to become a runesmith. Descent from Thungni is. Being a dwarf is just a precondition for that (unless you want to argue that Thungni got frisky with non-dwarfs, which I don't see ending well).
Omegahugger said:
Look, to those who want Eike to study Ulgu and become Mathilde's apprentice, I'm gonna have to point out that it's not guarantueed that she'll end up with us. There are plenty of other magisters out there, and we're not really well-versed enough in College politics to tell whether or not someone would try to swipe her from us.

So if we want to be absolutely sure Eike ends up in our care, we'll have to find a Lore of Magic where there's less competition...
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... a magister trying to swipe the apprentice of a Lady Magister would be hilarious, and a great occasion to find someone who really shouldn't be a Grey Wizard.
BoneyM said:
Jokingly adopted, with a side of being buttered up as a likely future VIP. Informally adopted would be a level beyond that, and a much more serious matter.
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That might happen if she does end up Matty's apprentice. I mean, Matty herself was considered for marriage (maybe somewhat jokingly).
 
Rafin said:
Did you mean a small mug of beer or do they actually have some kind of more child friendly beer called "small beer"?
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Small beer is beer with low alcohol content that was often served to children at meals in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Some schools mandated it, believing it would strengthen their charges.

Rafin said:
Did Eike speak any basic amounts of Khazalid or do the Azul Dwarves actually speak Reikspiel with some irregularity.
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Eike doesn't speak any Khazalid, it's hard to learn it outside the Karaz Ankor unless you're part of the Cult of Sigmar or attending one of the major educational institutions. Presumably Kazrik translated for her.

Rafin said:
That's nice. If one of the first things people associate with lesbians is that they are on good terms with the Empire's prime married fertility goddess, then there's little anyone could complain about.

The only less then ideal connotation I can think of is that sometimes lesbians are expected to marry a man just like Rhya did. But we knew that already.
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In 4e, Rhya was given strictures that pretty much say "LGBT people are valid". They're a bit on the nose for me to make them word-for-word quest canon but I like the idea of Rhya being the protector of the queer. It's also an adaptation of the IRL slang 'Friend of Dorothy'.

Rafin said:
How compatible is joining the clergy with becoming the head/heir of the EIC?
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Mathilde doesn't really know the Cults well enough to say for sure, but she doubts any will object to having the heir to a trade empire being dropped into their laps for them to mould.

Rafin said:
Depending on who else we could have voted to meet, was there any chance that Mathilde wouldn't have noticed? Like if we had chosen three non-supernatural people for instance? Or would that have been too boring and sad of an option after a one in a hundred chance?
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I don't know for sure. I made the decision based on there being an easy circumstance for Mathilde to notice, I don't know what decision I would have made if it was otherwise.
 
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BoneyM said:
You take a moment in a Dwarven bar adjoining the entrance hall for Eike to regain her breath and composure over a mug of small beer,
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I was going to comment on Mathilde being irresponsible here, but then I remembered that a) medieval beer is watered down and usually healthier than water and b) my parents started buying me alcohol when I was 13, so yeah, no problem here, move along.

BoneyM said:
"An honour to meet you, Utkalanit", Eike says, and then frowns as the two of you laugh.
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Adorable.

BoneyM said:
Some of them haven't been up north yet, so Eike should be popular."
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BoneyM said:
After a few days in the company of the Karak Azul Dwarves, Eike comes back with her hair properly plaited, an elegant axe on her hip, and the aura of soft jingling that you guess to be a chainmail slip.
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Gods, this is so cute. I guess she really was popular. You know dwarves like you when they give you a proper axe to cleave your foes with.

I love Eike so much. I hope we get to see a lot of her over the coming years as she grows and develops.

As for the wizard thing, I think we should point her towards the Greys. The responsibility of the Greys (diplomats, stewards and spies) neatly dovetails with the purpose of the EIC (foreign relations, economic improvement, and information gathering), visiting her during her apprenticeship will be easy (I said I wanted to see more of her) and it sets up a narratively appropriate apprentice that we can train to handle the same aspects of Grey Wizarding we're famous for. I think we should also open up the option for Eike to choose her own wind, but bare in mind that apprentices do sometimes get shuffled around if they lack aptitude for their collages wind; you're not locked into a wind until your first arcane mark. I also suspect, as the biggest wizarding influence in her life, she be naturally drawn to Grey anyway, if only to pick something that feels less strange and alien (amber and amethyst are probably down right terrifying to her right now).

Ranald has given us the ideal apprentice; we literally will not find another character better suited for it in the quest. And okay, some people here don't want and apprentice, and when the time comes to adopt one they are free to vote against it, and who knows, maybe they'll win and we won take one ever. But for the people who want one, sending Eike to the Greys is the first step on that path.
 
pucflek said:
Small beer is beer in smaller mug usually. Or alternatively low content, but this is honestly first time i am hearing of it. But Dwarven Ales work on entirely different paradigm than normal alcohol anyway.
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I'm pretty sure dwarven ales can go past 200% proof (100% alcohol content by volume), so there's something funky going on with them, yeah. :V
 
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