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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Omegahugger said:
Okay, so I know that this is just supposed to be a "Eike has heard some things and put two and two together" moment, but that doesn't stop me from imagining that the girl's magesight also comes with a rudimentary gaydar. A useful tool, if developed well no doubt.

But yes, around here we're friends of Dorothy/Mara/Rhya.
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Look I'm not saying magic is gay. I'm just saying the winds of magic are suspiciously like a rainbow. 🤔 E: Also that wizards and witches are a persecuted minority for something they didn't choose. E:E:Also the best at magic are Elves who as we all know are the gayest race in warhammer. E:E:E: Also 100% of magicians I can think of who are in relationships (Mathilde/Pan) are in gay relationships. E:E:E:E: Also lets not forget how Fabulous Johan is.

Perhaps this is the first step to high magic?
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
I don't see this as an issue, Mathilde simply doesn't have to report the issue to them or any one else and can make sure Eike has been inducted into a priestly order, Whilemena is quite capable of keeping a secret.
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primemountain said:
And I might agree with you if Mat wouldn't be the one doing the pushing, and the Clergy being pushed wasn't Shallya. IF there is one goddess who's understand Mat not wanting to subject Eike to the scorn and social isolation that comes with being a Wizard, Shallya would. As for the magic question, Mat's a Grey Ranaldite with divine attention. They could work something out, if keeping the magic/priest thing secret is that important. Keeping secrets is literally in her job description.
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As I said, I don't see this as a guaranteed problem. Just something that could potentially come up as an issue, and thus worth keeping in mind as a 'worst case' scenario.
 
Omegahugger said:
] Wizard
- [ ] Let Eike decide
- [ ] The Golden Order
- [ ] The Order of Life
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Well, even if I genuinely really want to see us having to deal with our first apprentice, and fel this would give a great personal connection, I can't entirely disagree with this selection, even if it seems disturbingly norm-
Omegahugger said:
- [ ] The Black College
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Oh thank god, you had me worried for a second there Omega.
 
I mean, there is a god of trade and merchants if she's gonna go clergy... Anyway I'd rather put her through the Grey College. One good part about being expected to do shit for the Empire is that you're given more tools. With our degree of influence we could swing an idea with the other LM that given the Marienburg Situation and the chance for similar things in the future, an economically-focused Grey is something they are dearly missing and they might just help propel Eike further.
 
DragonParadox said:
Keep in mind that her first reaction to us saying that Pan is good with plants was to ask 'but she can still fight right?' I do not think she is a pacifist of any stripe.
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It's up for interpretation, but it could have been personal curiosity if Pan was a fighter as well. The focus of her question was 'does she fight' instead of 'if she has killed'.

NSMS said:
I mean... it's not like we follow the strictures of our faith perfectly strictly (*looks pointedly at the greatsword we named 'wit'*), and we have ridiculous piety.
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Ranald approves of violence towards acceptable targets. Shallya disapproves of violence period. She may convert to another god when she enters the Colleges, but it's too early to say. She would find companionship among the Lights hunting Nurglites, but that depends on personal disposition and aptitude towards conflict.
 
K von Carstein said:
Is she? She saw Ghyran just as well as Ulgu.
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Honestly I think she could be anything. We saw her with traces of Chamon and Aqshy way back when we first met her.

Honestly the only ones I think would be a bad fit for this would be Aqshy, Ghur, and Shyish. Aqshy because it might make her more impulsive, which might end up clashing with Wilhemina's long term focus. Ghur because love of wilds over civilisation would make buisness infinitely harder than almost anything else. And Shyish, because having to renounce her inheritance would be the one that's even harder for her to do buisness under.
 
NeonLights said:
It's up for interpretation, but it could have been personal curiosity if Pan was a fighter as well. The focus of her question was 'does she fight' instead of 'if she has killed'.


Ranald approves of violence towards acceptable targets. Shallya disapproves of violence period. She may convert to another god when she enters the Colleges, but it's too early to say. She would find companionship among the Lights hunting Nurglites, but that depends on personal disposition and aptitude towards conflict.
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Even if you follow one god primarily, you can interpret their teachings or choose not to follow them in their entirety. It's not a monolithic 'you must do all of these things or you're disqualified' thing unless you're aiming to join the clergy, and even there there's certainly wiggle room.
 
Dampener sounds like a bad idea with the risk of having Eike be caught doing illegal things later. IMO we should push for wizard, and let Eike decides what she wants.
Sure, having an apprentice would be interesting from a narrative standpoint, but we already are librarian and have a lot of other things on our plate. Furthermore, I think it's better for Eike if she can choose what she prefers.
 
K von Carstein said:
Furthermore, I think it's better for Eike if she can choose what she prefers.
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I won't mind if thats the case, but I will be sad.

This update really really makes me want to see her more and be her cool Pan magic Aunt

BoneyM said:
Shallya disapproves of killing performed by Shallyans. A great many Shallyans are known to enjoy the company of a stout whacking stick and heavily-armed companions.
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So Her killing is not fine, but Ensuring that the Witch Hunters find their targets in a convenient ambush point via the Dread Powers of LOGISTICS would be okay?
 
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I'm 100 percent in favor of the grey apprentice option.

The view is poverty is actually a good thing for the leader of the company in my opinion., look at all the beneficial things its made Mathilde pump her gold into.

The Grey order also take their loyalty to the empire more seriously than the other orders which should help reign the company in.
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
So Her killing is not fine, but Ensuring that the Witch Hunters find their targets in a convenient ambush point via the Dread Powers of LOGISTICS would be okay?
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Against Nurglites, absolutely so. Against other causers of suffering, it's justifiable. The mainstream Cult of Shallya is reactive in that it tries to heal existing suffering, but there's a significant minority that believes in proactively preventing future suffering.
 
K von Carstein said:
Is she? She saw Ghyran just as well as Ulgu.
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I would even argue that she saw Ghyran more clearly than she did Ulgu, though that could very well be explained by Ulgu being Ulgu and Panoramia having access to the unlimited power of the Waystones.

The3rdCorinthian said:
I won't mind if thats the case, but I will be sad.

This update really really makes me want to see her more and be her cool Pan magic Aunt
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We can be that regardless of what is picked, bar Dampeners I suppose.

Inter-college connections are never a bad thing to have.
 
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BoneyM said:
Against Nurglites, absolutely so. Against other causers of suffering, it's justifiable. The mainstream Cult of Shallya is reactive in that it tries to heal existing suffering, but there's a significant minority that believes in proactively preventing future suffering.
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How would the Shallyans look on her (for a random example) mastering Mockery of Death and just putting every enemy she runs into to sleep, then dragging them off to be executed? Or using Substance of Shadow on someone, positioning them so they intersect with something, then leaving them until either the spell wears off or a light source comes along? Or other 'not technically killing them' things of that nature?
 
I'm pretty against gold, mainly because I saw some arguments for it I didn't like.

People were saying she would benefit from the profits of the EIC more since gold wizards need gold... but her seeing the EIC as a means to gain money and increase her own power, both magical and otherwise, rather than a tool to help the empire and civilization sounds like a recipe for greed and potentially disaster to me.
 
NSMS said:
How would the Shallyan's look on her (for a random example) mastering Mockery of Death and just putting every enemy she runs into to sleep, then dragging them off to be executed? Or using Substance if Shadow, positioning them so they intersect with something, then leaving them until either the spell wears off or a light source comes along? Or other 'not technically killing them' things of that nature?
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Religious sophistry does not go super great in a setting where the Gods are willing and able to dole out corrective smitings.
 
Um I'm not convinced of the pro-gold-order arguments.
The argument seems to be that golds are expected and encouraged to seek wealth.
Which is all fine and well until you place a gold wizard at the head of a trading company designed around being good for the empire first and bringing in profit second.
It would be very easy to switch those focuses around - maybe even expected to.

Everybody is afraid of the safeguards against Gray wizards but I think Mathilde would be afraid of non-safeguarded wizards

If greed is the motivator "Don't skinn the sheep" policies can be adjusted quickly
 
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NavySeel said:
I'm pretty against gold, mainly because I saw some arguments for it I didn't like.

People were saying she would benefit from the profits of the EIC more since gold wizards need gold... but her seeing the EIC as a means to gain money and increase her own power, both magical and otherwise, rather than a tool to help the empire and civilization sounds like a recipe for greed and potentially disaster to me.
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So long as she stays focused on the long term (better to have more power later than some power now) it's probably not a concern, but this is a valid point.
 
DragonParadox said:
We do not know that for sure. All we know is that dwarfs will only teach runes to a descendant of Thungi. For all we know a properly motivated snotling could be a runesmith it is just that no one tried to teach one before. :V

That said the point is rather moot because of said tradition.
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Technically we're a dwarf now according to the high king.

We can totally learn runes. Just need a willing teacher and a few hundred years of extra life.
 
BoneyM said:
Shallya disapproves of killing performed by Shallyans. A great many Shallyans are known to enjoy the company of a stout whacking stick and heavily-armed companions.
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In that case Eike theoretically could make a good spymaster. I'll put 'delivering Shallya's mercy' by 'applying Mindhole' for when I need euphemisms for assassination by firearm.


NSMS said:
Even if you follow one god primarily, you can interpret their teachings or choose not to follow them in their entirety. It's not a monolithic 'you must do all of these things or you're disqualified' thing unless you're aiming to join the clergy, and even there there's certainly wiggle room.
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Really? I'm guess I'm wrong on this then. I considered the tenets to be a bit more ironclad barring overriding theological priorities like the Knights of Tall using steel.


NavySeel said:
I'm pretty against gold, mainly because I saw some arguments for it I didn't like.

People were saying she would benefit from the profits of the EIC more since gold wizards need gold... but her seeing the EIC as a means to gain money and increase her own power, both magical and otherwise, rather than a tool to help the empire and civilization sounds like a recipe for greed and potentially disaster to me.
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The potential for wrongdoing is inherent in almost everything. And we'll be there to provide guidance nearly every step. So even if she stumbles a bit we'll be at her side to help her get back on track.
 
BoneyM said:
Religious sophistry does not go super great in a setting where the Gods are willing and able to dole out corrective smitings.
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What do Shallyans say about Self defence again? I genuinely don't know this one, So i want to know if she genuinely tries to avoid a fight, but something out of her control happens, what then?
 
BoneyM said:
Religious sophistry does not go super great in a setting where the Gods are willing and able to dole out corrective smitings.
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Ah well. I suppose not all deities can be as kind and understanding as Ranald about technicalities. *snuggles Branulhune*
 
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