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"And in the end you could sit forever, flipping the coin, and never have it land on the same face twice. Thus was Ranald's victory complete."
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
"And in the end you could sit forever, flipping the coin, and never have it land on the same face twice. Thus was Ranald's victory complete."
Turns out every God is just one of Ranald's many faces
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
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- A Valid Location
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Ghur Magisters.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
An idea:
When we summon/de summon Branulhune the momentum of it is sent away: see momentum dump technique.
So if we were falling and summoned it, we would give it a bit of momentum to speed it up, thus slowing us down a bit. If we then desummomed it then summoned it again we would again be slowed down slightly. We could theoretically keep doing this repeatedly to slow our fall.
For those in the thread that would know the math of this situation, would the amount we would be slowed be a meaningful amount?
When we summon/de summon Branulhune the momentum of it is sent away: see momentum dump technique.
So if we were falling and summoned it, we would give it a bit of momentum to speed it up, thus slowing us down a bit. If we then desummomed it then summoned it again we would again be slowed down slightly. We could theoretically keep doing this repeatedly to slow our fall.
For those in the thread that would know the math of this situation, would the amount we would be slowed be a meaningful amount?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It would depend how fast you could flicker it. If you did it fast enough - at least dozens of times a second, if not hundreds - it could work.
Of course, at that point Mathilde would probably just Smoke and Mirrors to the ground.
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dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Oh yeah I forgot we could do that
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
And then go splat, seeing as Smoke and Mirrors preserves momentum according to WoB.
- Location
- Australia
Arctovian Wyssan might be there too. He's a human in 4e (got banned from a bunch of gambling houses because of his magical dice), but while I think that's original it might've had older origins.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
...Even disregarding the magic bit, what kind of gambling houses would permit people to bring along, let alone play with, their own dice? That just seems like it'd be an open floodgate to anyone trying to cheat at the games with rigged implements.
Codex
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The only thing I have on Wyssan is Wyssan's Wildform the spell, as well as his weighted dice from Storms of Magic. I personally do think he's a human, but I assumed he was dead or something. I didn't know he's still alive in 4th Edition.
If we're talking about possibly still living artifact makers, then there's also Anraheir:
This could be a Gehenna situation where this Anraheir isn't the original Anraheir, or it might be a Melkoth situation where it really is that Anraheir.
Anraheir is the one who made the "Cloak of Anraheir" magic item from Storm of Chaos as well as, I assume, the Curse of Anraheir Battle Magic spell.
- Location
- Australia
Ah, I meant specifically about the "human" bit rather than the "still alive" bit. He doesn't actually show up in the game, just his dice. Sorry for the unclarity.
EDIT:
So this definitely wouldn't be related to DL, but to answer the question, he doesn't play with them. The dice work without being rolled. You just need to have them in your possession.
Wyssan's Weighted Dice
These odd dice were carved in pairs by the fabled Wizard Wyssan, who was known both for his success at gambling and being the first person banned from gambling houses in every one of the Empire's Great Provinces.
This item grants their owner +1 SL on any Gamble Test which involves dice. Once per session, the owner of Wyssan's Weighted Dice may reverse the results of the tens and units die of any roll made (so that a 17 becomes a 71, etc.), including rolls made by other players or the GM. Any time this second effect is used, the owner of the dice must make an additional D100 roll — if the result is a double, the dice become inert and lose all magical properties.
These odd dice were carved in pairs by the fabled Wizard Wyssan, who was known both for his success at gambling and being the first person banned from gambling houses in every one of the Empire's Great Provinces.
This item grants their owner +1 SL on any Gamble Test which involves dice. Once per session, the owner of Wyssan's Weighted Dice may reverse the results of the tens and units die of any roll made (so that a 17 becomes a 71, etc.), including rolls made by other players or the GM. Any time this second effect is used, the owner of the dice must make an additional D100 roll — if the result is a double, the dice become inert and lose all magical properties.
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Codex
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Ah, well I'm pretty sure a decent number of those Mythic Artifacts in Storm of Magic were made by humans, my statement was specifically that Paranoth might be the only still living human who's made a Mythic Artifact available in Storm of Magic.
Algard didn't really make an item, he made an entire battlefield, so he doesn't count.
Codex
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I went back to the update where we first met the Emperor and Dragomas to check on a few things. A few notes and musings:
The description isn't enough to go on. No description of his physicality aside from the fact that he has a regal bearing and sunken eyes. From the way he spoke and dealt with things I get the feeling he's more of a statesman and leader rather than a warrior, and he's probably not riding Griffons into the sunset carrying Ghal Maraz and inspiring the Empire's army to crush his enemies. I guess not every Emperor can be Karl Franz (and I suppose there is an argument to be made that a warrior Emperor isn't always ideal).
Here Mathilde outright says that the Imperial Dragon is "growing at a terrifying rate". So it seems that I'm not the only one thinking he's growing pretty fast. Mathilde seems to be under that impression too.
In hindsight, this statement is incredibly ironic. Yeah sure, Alric has gone into "a peaceful retirement" alright. Mathilde was seriously out of the loop back when she was a Magister. One could argue she's still kind of out of the loop, and the only reason she even knows about the Alric fiasco is because she involved herself with poaching Horstmann.
This is the reason I went back to this update. I was curious to see if I could pick up any hints if Luitpold was like his son Karl Franz in canon, if he was a warrior and general.
The description isn't enough to go on. No description of his physicality aside from the fact that he has a regal bearing and sunken eyes. From the way he spoke and dealt with things I get the feeling he's more of a statesman and leader rather than a warrior, and he's probably not riding Griffons into the sunset carrying Ghal Maraz and inspiring the Empire's army to crush his enemies. I guess not every Emperor can be Karl Franz (and I suppose there is an argument to be made that a warrior Emperor isn't always ideal).
I think that any leader in warhammer must have some level of martial prowess, certainly any Emperor or the electors would not choose them out of concerns that they could not lead the armies of the Empire in battle, that said old Karl was on a whole other level, shouting down a orc Waagh with the voice of Sigmar and all that.
Codex
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Yeah but just because you can fight doesn't mean you will fight. Karl wasn't just exceptional because he was strong, he was exceptional because he had a list of military achievements and battles he was personally involved in a mile long. I doubt most Emperors can claim that, and certainly you can argue that you're tempting fate by doing that. The Empire needs a leader, there's a lack of stability that can come from constant shifting leaders.
The Empire generally tends to have longer reigns for their Emperors than the foolhardy Bretonnian Kings who die every 8-12 years or something. Part of that is that their Emperors aren't obligated to charge into battle on Griffon/Horse back.
There's also the fact that the Electors often choose Emperors for reasons that aren't ability in combat. Boris Goldgather was chosen because they thought he would be easy to manipulate. Dieter IV was an emperor in living memory and he was infamous for being an absolute coward. Combat ability isn't always a factor for an Emperor being chosen.
True, though being fair to the Bretonians they can get away with changing kings like socks because the Lady is stupidly interventionist and there are always more Grail Knights where the last one came from
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Some theory crafting on the nature of magic:
Data points:
Magic hates being bound in an enchantment when a wizard is involved.
Magic will, under some circumstances, spontaneously enchant objects, particularly when they have a strong legend to them.
The crystal impression of Ranald was described as "uncomfortably still" in contrast to the god Himself.
The Coin of Ranald was easily able to change its nature when the appropriate moment came.
There are reports of cults that have gone from being accepted gods of Order to being fronts for Chaos gods, whether that be true or false.
Deathfang and the Imperial Dragon are both unusually active for dragons.
Deathfang can see gods, just as Mathilde can.
Deathfang is a legendarily unstoppable terror of battlefields.
Hypothesis: Magic, particularly Divine magic, is a living and malleable thing, and its nature is not static, but instead reflects, and under certain circumstances objects, ideas, and even people can become naturally enchanted by it, as it is drawn strongly to their legends.
-Subhypothesis: Perhaps magic rejects enchantment because it forces something vital and changing to instead become still and determined? Perhaps magic rejects the dwarves and their culture for a similar reason.
Potential Test: Could you enchant an object easier by crafting a powerful legend around it and then fitting the enchantment to the legend?
Potential Test: Could it be possible to make a living enchantment this way? Some object or being with a magical nature can change and shift as its legend does, rather than the spells within it remaining static.
Potential test: For a test with a bit less confidence from its outcome, Controlling and refining an arcane mark to take a form based on the deeds and legends of its wielder, as a specific case of the above.
(Another good candidate for these might be an otherwise mundane souvenir of the Sylvanian campaign, or some other work of legend Mathilde was involved with.)
Additional Hypothesis: The gods themselves are not static. They can grow and change, for better and for worse alike, just as any person can.
(If this is the case, it would imply that the crystal imprints idea was to some extents an inherently limited project. At best, it would only ever to capture the gods imprints as they were at one moment in time, at worst, in one particular context, and one moment in time.)
And for a further step...
Data points:
Dwarves are known as great craftsfolk who operate in a world of very simple and consistent social rules, and their magic reflects this: Simple rules that build to greater things.
Elves are a long lived, slow growing, socially extremely complex, and again, their magic reflects this, with difficult to learn High Magic based on mastering the layered subtleties and interactions of eight distinct winds.
Humans are described as particularly malleable among all the mortal races.
Human mages are routinely capable of feats that defy the Teclisian paradigm.
Elementalists wield a form of magic that has adapted to the natural world, ceasing to be akin to the winds and instead becoming the elements of nature.
There are records and prophecies that some entire human magical traditions, like Ice Magic, could change nature in the course of time.
Hypothesis: If magic reflects those who wield it, then the native trait of Human magic in general, is that it's rules are as malleable as humanity themselves. A human mage's art can never be everything, but it can easily become anything.
Data points:
Magic hates being bound in an enchantment when a wizard is involved.
Magic will, under some circumstances, spontaneously enchant objects, particularly when they have a strong legend to them.
The crystal impression of Ranald was described as "uncomfortably still" in contrast to the god Himself.
The Coin of Ranald was easily able to change its nature when the appropriate moment came.
There are reports of cults that have gone from being accepted gods of Order to being fronts for Chaos gods, whether that be true or false.
Deathfang and the Imperial Dragon are both unusually active for dragons.
Deathfang can see gods, just as Mathilde can.
Deathfang is a legendarily unstoppable terror of battlefields.
Hypothesis: Magic, particularly Divine magic, is a living and malleable thing, and its nature is not static, but instead reflects, and under certain circumstances objects, ideas, and even people can become naturally enchanted by it, as it is drawn strongly to their legends.
-Subhypothesis: Perhaps magic rejects enchantment because it forces something vital and changing to instead become still and determined? Perhaps magic rejects the dwarves and their culture for a similar reason.
Potential Test: Could you enchant an object easier by crafting a powerful legend around it and then fitting the enchantment to the legend?
Potential Test: Could it be possible to make a living enchantment this way? Some object or being with a magical nature can change and shift as its legend does, rather than the spells within it remaining static.
Potential test: For a test with a bit less confidence from its outcome, Controlling and refining an arcane mark to take a form based on the deeds and legends of its wielder, as a specific case of the above.
(Another good candidate for these might be an otherwise mundane souvenir of the Sylvanian campaign, or some other work of legend Mathilde was involved with.)
Additional Hypothesis: The gods themselves are not static. They can grow and change, for better and for worse alike, just as any person can.
(If this is the case, it would imply that the crystal imprints idea was to some extents an inherently limited project. At best, it would only ever to capture the gods imprints as they were at one moment in time, at worst, in one particular context, and one moment in time.)
And for a further step...
Data points:
Dwarves are known as great craftsfolk who operate in a world of very simple and consistent social rules, and their magic reflects this: Simple rules that build to greater things.
Elves are a long lived, slow growing, socially extremely complex, and again, their magic reflects this, with difficult to learn High Magic based on mastering the layered subtleties and interactions of eight distinct winds.
Humans are described as particularly malleable among all the mortal races.
Human mages are routinely capable of feats that defy the Teclisian paradigm.
Elementalists wield a form of magic that has adapted to the natural world, ceasing to be akin to the winds and instead becoming the elements of nature.
There are records and prophecies that some entire human magical traditions, like Ice Magic, could change nature in the course of time.
Hypothesis: If magic reflects those who wield it, then the native trait of Human magic in general, is that it's rules are as malleable as humanity themselves. A human mage's art can never be everything, but it can easily become anything.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Yeah, to my knowledge Karl Franz was an outlier among the leaders of the Empire, aside from Sigmar himself. He was kind of the shining exemplar of humanity within the Empire as one of the many, many, last hurrahs of all the factions in the dangerous times of canon Fantasy.
Codex
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I don't know about the actual enchantment process, but I find this part of Page 202 of Realms of Sorcery interesting: "or being used to slay a particularly loathsome Daemon".
It brings to mind Guts' sword from Berserk. Guts had a mundane sword, albeit a hilariously large and impractical one that he could swing around like a normal sword. It was entirely mundane by the beginning of the story, but as the story progressed and he killed more and more Apostles (basically Daemons), the sword developed magical abilities that made it more effective against Apostles.
I imagine that such a thing is entirely possible in Warhammer. The problem here is that it involves you defeating many Daemons, or particularly powerful/horrible Daemons, with a mundane weapon. Since Daemons are resistant to non-magical weapons, that's not exactly an easy task. Trying to build a legend isn't exactly that easy, and trying to do it with a mundane weapon is even harder.
I also think that the legend might be further enhanced by who is doing it. If an Elf or Dwarf kills a Daemon with a mundane weapon, there's a chance that it doesn't get enchanted as well as if it was a human doing it. Elves and Dwarves don't seem to have the spontaneous accidental magic of belief that humans have, and humans are likely to find it less impressive for an Elf or Dwarf to do something because they're usually older and seen as having inherent advantages. The same thing might also be the case if they see a Wizard doing something.
My hypothesis is that if a regular human soldier used a mundane weapon to kill a powerful Daemon, that weapon is likely to be enchanted. If an Ulthuan Archmage used a "mundane" weapon (if you can call any weapon they use mundane) to kill a Daemon, then it probably won't be enchanted through belief. But it's not like the Archmage needs it, he can just enchant the blade normally.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
A big reason why Guts' sword became magical was because it essentially become part of the magical world from all the monster guts and blood it'd been soaked in, mind, which gave it a kind of magical inertia. Hypothetically, there's nothing saying that couldn't happen to another mundane blade in Fantasy, should it be used to kill some particularly nasty demon. Some echo of the warpspawn's makeup remaining on the blade, granting it its own sort of magical weight? It might not need faith, although on reflection I'm not actually sure if Fantasy runs on that sort of belief. I know 40K does, but are there tools in Fantasy that've become magic through nothing but age and legend?
Codex
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I made a post about this yesterday, but yes, there are:
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Karl is something of a rarity, because he's noted to be a brilliant statesman, as well as an excellent warrior and general.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Uh, whoops, sorry. Though in that case I don't think it'd be unlikely for elves to develop those sorts of weapons, they'd just be overshadowed by the actual enchantments. Although, hm, could that mean a magical artefact becomes more powerful over time through the reinforcement of its power and belief in it? Could Ghal Maraz or the Runefangs be stronger now than they were at their creation? Although that runs into the question of how faith interacts with runes or enchantments.
Codex
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There are far less Elves than humans, and humans tend to have very strong Faith. Elves don't have divine magic as humans know it, they simply utilise Arcane magic. I don't see why they would be particularly good at the accidental enchantment that Humans do.
Maybe they do have accidental enchantments, but my interpretation is that humans are better in that specific field. It fits with their whole "Faith, Steel and Gunpowder" image.
And also because I'm tired of the Elves monopolising every single cool magic thing and just want the humans to have their own cool magic shit.
Also, if you're interested in reading about Ghal Maraz possibly doing something that might not have been in its intended design, I recommend you read this thing I transcribed a while ago: