Hmm... true it could be a special blessing of the Lady on the knight that needs the sword to work. Ok I'm convinced we need to capture a knight of Carcasone and experiment on him to see how his sword works.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Hmm... true it could be a special blessing of the Lady on the knight that needs the sword to work. Ok I'm convinced we need to capture a knight of Carcasone and experiment on him to see how his sword works.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
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Let's drip AV on them!Hmm... true it could be a special blessing of the Lady on the knight that needs the sword to work. Ok I'm convinced we need to capture a knight of Carcasone and experiment on him to see how his sword works.
Codex
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This assume they need the Lady for every blessing they have. It's possible that divine energy can manifest without any particular god fueling it. It's not like the Lady is the Horned Rat, Bordelaux is famous for venerating Manaan nearly as much as they do the Lady, so clearly she's not that jealous.Hmm... true it could be a special blessing of the Lady on the knight that needs the sword to work. Ok I'm convinced we need to capture a knight of Carcasone and experiment on him to see how his sword works.
It's possible that the Lady just straight up isn't involved. Just the belief and cultural impetus behind Carcassonne itself.
Given that it is only the knights and we know every single knight of Bretonia gets a ward save from her already I think it is fair to say the is the most likely candidate. Manaan is not known for blessing people by location and social class, the Lady is.
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Might be a blessing on the whole country in general, not sure if it would be easier to target individual knights or just lay a generalist blessing on the whole area that activates if specific qualifications are fulfilled.Hmm... true it could be a special blessing of the Lady on the knight that needs the sword to work. Ok I'm convinced we need to capture a knight of Carcasone and experiment on him to see how his sword works.
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I'm not implying Manaan is blessing them. I'm implying that there doesn't need to be a god involved for divine energy to exist from belief. The reason why it's exclusive to social class and location could easily be because of the belief of the people in the area being that only nobles and men can get the blessing. Because they believe it, it's true. It doesn't have to be an active blessing.
This also brings me to another thing. The Lady refuses to give the Grail to women even if they're disguised as men, but women pretending to be men can take the Questing and Knight Vow, benefit from a Virtue, and get the Blessing of the Lady through prayer. Either the Lady is inconsistent as hell, or they recieve all the blessings short of Grail Knighthood in spite of the Lady's wishes.
Burned_Cookie
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But hovering via flickering sword is much more dramatic!
(And doesn't induce miscasts.)
I think 'the Lady is inconstant as hell' is more likely given that Repanse de Lyonesse is a thing rather than assuming a whole class of sub-god non-sapieant warp force that grants divine blessings. Not saying it's impossible, this could even be a larval stage in the creation of new gods, but it seems to me a lot less likely than 'it's the Lady again'.
I guess the one way to check though would be to find an apostate knight of Carcasone, like one who has taken up Stormfells worship and see if their sword still works... though even then their new god could have replaced the blessing. You would have to find one who has denied the lady such as they lost all their blessings and then not taken up any other god, which seems unlikely to the point of near-impossibility.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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Ariel was playable back in 5th edition. Not since then, which I never quite got.
Pretty sure Branchwraiths are roughly human-sized.
Re: Elven cultural artifacts, I think the Cloak of Beards almost certainly is an example (enchanted through belief rather than a wizard casting a spell)
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Repanse never drank the Grail. You're assuming I'm talking about gods, except here's the thing.
I'm not. I don't think this spontaneous creation of artifacts or blessings is related to gods. I use "Divine Energy" in this case to refer to nascent belief, but I don't think that belief has to be attached to any god. A sword killing a Daemon might get enchanted properties as a result of the legend or deed built around it, but I don't think any god has to be involved in the process. Humans can believe something, and it can become true through belief, becasue the Warp works in that way. No gods necessary.
Also, funny detail. The Red Duke of Aquitaine's statblock in Night's Dark Masters states that he has the Virtue of Audacity and Virtue of Chivalry. Virtue of Audacity means that if his enemy has a higher strength score, he uses his enemy's strength (useless in most cases because he already has 75% strength). Virtue of Chivalry means he can call on the Lady's Blessing by spending a Fortune Point. The only thing stopping him is that he has no Fate Points. I also don't think any GM would use this oversight to give the Red Duke the Lady's Blessing.
EDIT: Ah, but while the Red Duke doesn't have Fate Points and therefore can't use the Lady's Blessing, the cannibalistic Bougars Di Biocaure and the hired killer who broke his vows Eustache of the Rusting Blade both have Fate Points and the Virtue of Chivalry, so despite being horrific monsters they can theoretically get her blessing.
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As far as we know divine energy only forms in the warp (Weird interactions like AV notwithstanding) so there has to be some shadow in the warp, like a god but not to give those swords their power, again if the metaphysics work as we have seen them work so far.
We have never seen: Belief -> Sword, but rather Belief ->Warp entity -> Artifact which is in some way part of the entity projecting into the material realm.
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Could be the writer just forgot to put the "women not allowed" clause on the blessings.
Could be, but you still need an in character reasoning for the inconsistency.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
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You know one thing I do find very funny is the similarities between Mathilde and Sigmar, being pretty much chosen by a god, saving dwarves and earning the friendship of dwarven kings. Being granted an incredible one of a kind dwarven weapon.
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No you don't.
Yes you do if you want to have a story or in this case quest that makes internal sense. Even if the writers of Warhammer did not come up with a reason I'm betting that Boney will come up with something if we poke the matter. I doubt the answer Mathilde would get from research would be 'GW was lazy'.
If the gods are sapient 'Winds' within the Aethyr, as Teclis describes them, there could easily be sub or non-sapient currents in the Aethyr responsible for effects like Birthswords. Aethyric analogies of what plants and animals are to the 'people' that are the gods.
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I think I should point out that while 40k Orks have a stronger "imagination field" that lets them do crazy shit compared to Fantasy Orcs, Warhammer Fantasy Orcs actually still have this ability.
It's just largely restricted to Savage Orcs. They refuse to wear armor and fight using incredibly primitive weapons, shunning metal and sophisticated weaponry brought over by the Black Orcs. Their only defence is literally just paint they plaster on themselves, and because of their belief they get a 6+ Ward save that protects them from basically everything.
This is the beauty of orcs. Humans typically don't charge into battle believing that body paint will protect them, because a part of them will think that that's ridiculous so their belief doesn't do much to protect them, since there's a chink in their armor so to speak. A Savage Orc, on the other hand, will charge into battle wholeheartedly believing he's invincible because of his body paint and the funny thing is that he wouldn't be entirely wrong.
I think Greenskins, to some degree, cut out the middleman. For an orc, the belief effect is transmitted via the Waaagh collective consciousness that seems to exist within the material world. For humans, belief needs to go into the Aethyr and something there needs to send it back to the material world to produce the effect.
On greenskin metal working; I believe it predates black orcs significantly. Greenskin slaves escaping the chaos dwaves transmitted the knowledge back to their free kin before black orcs were invented.
They typically didn't, but before the dwarfs uplifted them proto-Imperial tribes apparently did.
After all, if you see that body paint protects your enemies, you have reasonable grounds to believe it will protect you, which can then become true.
On greenskin metal working; I believe it predates black orcs significantly. Greenskin slaves escaping the chaos dwaves transmitted the knowledge back to their free kin before black orcs were invented.
They typically didn't, but before the dwarfs uplifted them proto-Imperial tribes apparently did.
After all, if you see that body paint protects your enemies, you have reasonable grounds to believe it will protect you, which can then become true.
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Boney will do whatever's best for his story, and that may be taking what's written as-is, but betting on it like him reconciling conflicting lore is the true default is odd. GW's works aren't holy writ.
I do not get what you are saying at this point. Things have to be reconciled somehow which means there is an IC reasoning even if it is just 'we will discount this part of canon, the Lady does not have female questing knights'.
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I quoted you saying "I'm betting Boney will come up with a reason the Lady won't grail women but will bless them". The type of reconciliation you were claiming he'd do was explaining how both these things are the truth in his game.
A Grail Knight is a living legend, a saint riding the world, a chosen avatar of the Lady. They are afforded every hospitality. If one has a particular preference for, say, private sleeping quarters and bathing facilities, they simply need speak a word of that desire and it will be theirs. To be requested to keep a secret for them is akin to a commandment from the Lady. To breathe the slightest suggestion that they are unqualified for the Blessing that the Lady has unmistakably given them would be blasphemy.
Of course there are no known female Grail Knights.
Of course there are no known female Grail Knights.
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Sir_Travelsalot
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Really, the thing about the drink from the Grail only being granted to male Bretonnian Nobles, but every blessing of the Lady beforehand being available to anyone pretending to be such, could be as simple as those who become Questing Knights suddenly being under more direct scrutiny from the Lady. After all, they suddenly start taking penalties if they use a lance during the Quest and are guided to the great deeds they are supposed to accomplish by visions in their dreams.