We've just become best friends for life with an elven furniture dealer.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
We've just become best friends for life with an elven furniture dealer.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Look, it'll come in handy when we inexplicably need an Asur armchair from the reign of Aethis on short notice.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Feels bad to not do both cultural actions in the same turn. This plan is literally going along with social class/caste divides.
Feck.
[] Plan Don't Ignore Engrim
I really, really don't like the idea of not taking the other culture action next turn.
(In my imagination, but still! They'll be had)
edit:
[] Plan Redshirt v2 with Divine AV
[X] Plan WEB-MAT & Culture
Feck.
[] Plan Don't Ignore Engrim
I really, really don't like the idea of not taking the other culture action next turn.
If they aren't silk, words will be had.
(In my imagination, but still! They'll be had)
edit:
[] Plan Redshirt v2 with Divine AV
[X] Plan WEB-MAT & Culture
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I don't see Horstmann being unhappy if we give him 6 months without a project, no. We shouldn't make a habit of it, but right now he'd welcome the break.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Huh, apparently I can't read.
[X] Plan Don't Ignore Engrim
[X] Plan Redshirt v2 with Divine AV
[X] Plan Redshirt v2
- Location
- Australia
The idea that Egrimm will be fine if we don't give him a job this turn sounds contrary to the point Boney was trying to get across. We shouldn't be thinking in terms of "Can we not do something with this person this turn without consequence", but rather "Unless we need something from them, we should kick them out, and only take in people we need."
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We're not exactly going to be consuming all his time.
From the sound of it Alric had him running around constantly, I'm sure we'll be managing a better work/life balance than that.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Well, at least we've put to rest any question of hiring more people into WEB-MAT for the time being. Frankly, I'm not convinced 3 subordinate actions are worth 2 personal actions, but we spent our Deed on the Branch College, so I suppose that's not changing any time soon.
Okay, to keep things from swinging all the way in the other direction, I'm not outright saying you have to give every Wizard a task every turn. If you need a rule of thumb, if you don't give someone work in a given turn you probably should for the next two turns. The point I'm trying to make is that if it is a hardship to find a way to make someone useful on a regular basis, they shouldn't be on the payroll in the first place. This isn't some mechanical barrier to try to figure out a way around, this is the way Mathilde should be thinking. Each Wizard in WEB-MAT is 2% of their Order not doing Wizard things elsewhere. Employing and then underutilizing a Wizard directly weakens the Empire.
A subordinate action is a personal action except with another Wizard contributing. Instead of Mathilde doing X, it's Mathilde+1 doing X. And you get three for two AP, and the scope of what those actions can be will expand once the Waystone Project has more than zero partners and zero foundational work done. If anything it might be OP.
A subordinate action is a personal action except with another Wizard contributing. Instead of Mathilde doing X, it's Mathilde+1 doing X. And you get three for two AP, and the scope of what those actions can be will expand once the Waystone Project has more than zero partners and zero foundational work done. If anything it might be OP.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
...I had thought it was simply directing them to do the action, not Mathilde taking part - I withdraw my moaning.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan Redshirt v2 with Divine AV
If we don't need to do Egrimm this turn, I'd prefer getting acquainted with the Faniour. I think it's more important to our mission to get a broader idea of the culture and politics in play, as well as improving Mathilde's ability to conduct diplomacy with elves. I'm also more interested in finding out about the Faniour from a reader perspective.
If we don't need to do Egrimm this turn, I'd prefer getting acquainted with the Faniour. I think it's more important to our mission to get a broader idea of the culture and politics in play, as well as improving Mathilde's ability to conduct diplomacy with elves. I'm also more interested in finding out about the Faniour from a reader perspective.
this is fair concerning the context.
but if I do, actually, really think this way, and I bring it up again at a time again in the future that doesn't look like 'stuff a wizerd in a freezer'. would you be more willing to ingage?
because it done make sense, at least to me. that as the whole thing developes, long term actions will get doe by 'heads's of teams, or that one wizred you can trust will just take the job themselves without mathy hovering over them.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Plan Don't Ignore Engrim
[X] Plan WEB-MAT & Culture
-[x] JOHANN: Have Johann spend time getting to know Kadoh, who has expressed an interest in meeting the 'fist metal-Mage'.
-[X] EGRIMM: Study an artefact: Golden Arm
-[X] MAX: Go through every library of the Colleges you can access for any scrap of information about Waystones.
-[x] Attempt to bring a Karak's Runesmiths into the Waystone Project (Karak Azul)
--[x] COIN: The Gambler
-[x] Furnish the living spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (600gc)
-[x] Immerse yourself in the culture of the 'Cityborn' Toriour inhabitants of Tor Lithanel
-[X] Immerse yourself in the culture of the 'Forestborn' Faniour inhabitants of the woods surrounding Tor Lithanel
-[x] EIC: Have a blackpowder factory built in Wurtbad.
-[x] SERENITY: Observations of Karag Dum and its unusual guardian
Get the 3:2 AP deal while not abandoning the Fanior.
[X] Plan WEB-MAT & Culture
-[x] JOHANN: Have Johann spend time getting to know Kadoh, who has expressed an interest in meeting the 'fist metal-Mage'.
-[X] EGRIMM: Study an artefact: Golden Arm
-[X] MAX: Go through every library of the Colleges you can access for any scrap of information about Waystones.
-[x] Attempt to bring a Karak's Runesmiths into the Waystone Project (Karak Azul)
--[x] COIN: The Gambler
-[x] Furnish the living spaces of the Waystone Project HQ (600gc)
-[x] Immerse yourself in the culture of the 'Cityborn' Toriour inhabitants of Tor Lithanel
-[X] Immerse yourself in the culture of the 'Forestborn' Faniour inhabitants of the woods surrounding Tor Lithanel
-[x] EIC: Have a blackpowder factory built in Wurtbad.
-[x] SERENITY: Observations of Karag Dum and its unusual guardian
Get the 3:2 AP deal while not abandoning the Fanior.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
So... How worried should we be that we are indeed unprecedentedly successful at recruiting Magisters, thus depriving the Empire of capable Wizards in multiple other areas of importance?
Anyway, I was actually hoping that at least some Wizards would approach us instead of being actively headhunted or sent as representatives of Colleges we explicitly petitioned.
Sure. But among the Dwarves, many of her friends are rulers or heirs or at least nobility who are expected to marry more so than average Dwarves. And even among Muggles Humans the vast majority seems single or at least not openly in relationships that last longer than (presumably) a turn or two.
I mean that could just be coincidence. Being a member of a knight order that travels beyond the Empire's borders doesn't jive well with an active (heterosexual) love life. Francesco and Oswald also only recently became sedentary and might well have found love since we last looked for love ourselves. And many of our other acquaintances over the years (Gustav, Julia, Markus, Schulz, the various Ranaldites) simply weren't close enough to us to open up about their maybe quite private love life.
It was mostly just an observation I had that I found curious.
I think the divide in expectations isn't that simple. Many of us imagine the Waystone Project to be a grand collaboration between at least five Colleges, a couple of Elves and Dwarves, and maybe even Human casters from non-Teclisian traditions. They then would combine their understandings to eventually achieve gods know what with Waystones. At the bare minimum (without firing Max or Johann) that would be eight people working alongside Mathilde. But if we have to spend an AP on each person each turn, then we have one AP too little even of we invest all five (plus two) AP into the WEB-MAT actions.
That's uncharitable. I think it's less about examining loopholes and more about grappling with the idea that (some of our) future visions of what WEB-MAT could be in the future are plain unworkable due to said mechanics.
I guess personally I didn't think being a member of WEB-MAT would mean that the Wizard doesn't do independent Wizard things anymore. Like, when we chose the charter I kind of thought that there would eventually be Wizards contributing to WEB-MAT's missions statement and using WEB-MAT's resources without ever even having the time to routinely serve Mathilde's whims. More like a research umbrella organization than Mathilde's task team of personal research assistants.
Like, to give an example, I thought that maybe one day some Jade Journeyman and Mannaan Cleric duo would come with an exciting idea and ask to join WEB-MAT and get funding, research space and peer review/participation (in exchange for sharing their findings and providing their own eyes and hands on other people's projects) because they read the charter and thought "this is the place to be".
From a Quest mechanic standpoint I get that. And I even agree with you that it might be too OP. Like, right now we are heavily incentivised to only ever use a single AP on personal projects that are completely unrelated to our organizations (or free paper writing). But from an IC perspective it seems to severely limit what WEB-MAT could ever be. Like, Hochland College is considered a failure, but I never imagined it as eight guys in a little house occasionally teaching eight other guys that didn't fit into Altdorf.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think there's a distinction between WEB-MAT and the Waystone project.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
OK, so next turn and the turn after we should use all three of our WEBMAT actions, if we don't this turn. And it sounds like hiring Hugo Bann is a bad idea until we have a specific idea for what to do with him.
Quick question: Can we assign a single wizard to multiple tasks? That is, can we take two MAX actions on a given turn if we pay the AP cost? Some people made convincing arguments that we could based on the wording, but I don't think we ever asked you directly, and I don't think we could before.
Oh, does this mean that "assign one of our wizards to study an artifact" works more like the "study an artifact with X" actions from Duckling Club? That's really useful to know, if so!
This plan is solid and I would approval vote it, but I really don't like the Max action. I don't think this is a good use of his time before we bring the Jades on board, since we'll get better access to their library then and the action will be better. May I instead suggest asking him to write "Observations on the Chaos Wastes in the western Great Steppes"? It's a low-priority paper, but it's a thing for him to do (and he can actually write this paper without us dictating it, unlike some of the others in our backlog) and the CF is useful.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Huh, I didn't actually realize that the Johann and Max actions got upgraded "in-universe" in terms of the effects we could expect from them.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Is spending a web-mat action on Johann meeting gun elf particularly wise, then? It's cool and I agree they should meet, but is that really something to use them in their wizardly capacity for instead of just being something they do on their own time if they want to?
see, this is what I don't get: why does mathy have to be involved everytime for every action?
Like, for some stuff yes, cant do windherding without her, and she really does need to be in changer and around for waystonee stuff.
but the wizards under her really should have the capability to do some projects/parts of projects on their own on behalf of the WEB-MAT, otherwise why the fuck would we want them? that's not a college faculty, that's a research assistant for mathy herself. ( in the future, as you said, right now its 4 wizards and a shoestring budget.)
that's the difference between a college, even a small one, and a micromanage team.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Not the elf with the gun, the elf with the guns.
He's 1/3 of the Triumvirs, we absolutely need to keep him on our side.
The mechanical format of theoretical future actions has yet to be decided, but in general 'send someone off to go do the adventures for you' might be an efficient way to manage but it sounds like not a whole lot of fun to write or read.
That is why you can bring organizations into the Waystone Project without recruiting them into WEB-MAT.
If I have a disagreement with someone in the thread and it doesn't involve you, can you please just let it continue to not involve you? It seems like every time there's some sort of kerfluffle, some point later you'll be quoting every post I made in it and dissecting exactly where you think I went wrong. I'm sure you're trying to be helpful, but I'd much rather you just let it lie.
Maybe 'one day'. One very far away day, almost definitely in an epilogue or time skip or otherwise offscreen so I'm not the poor bastard that has to write up all of these interesting duos with exciting ideas. But this is not that day. WEB-MAT is zero years old with zero prestige and zero facilities.
Yes.
Yes.
This is not the eternal and never-changing form of WEB-MAT actions for the rest of eternity. This might not even be how it will be next turn.
ok, I'll stop, didn't quite realize how not up for this topic you were until this post. sorry.