Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

Reader mode
torroar said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
any chance for us to see a Strigoi nation resurgence , as soon as the whaaah in the bonelands is broken would be the best chance for them to move into the bone lands and reestablish their nation

the vampires who back stabbed them are at their weakest thanks to the vampire war and the following vampire crusade , their foot hold in the empire purged with many of them even driven out of the Old World outright , not to mention Nefferata's own network was likely massively damaged with every single cell and agent in Ostland not only outed but captured and turned over to the witch hunters with the existence of her entire conspiracy being reveled to the empire's leadership which certainly would have seen them take action to root out her operatives hamstring her , the Strigoi ironically would have been the least harmed of effected by the vampire war and subsequent crusade since by this point in time the Strigoi have gotten very good at hiding as with their constant prosecution by just about everyone in the Old World including the other vampires has ensured that those Strigoi who weren't good at hiding being already dead

the empire and the dwarfs are unlikely to make a move on a new Strigoi nation in the bonelands at least any time soon , since they should be pretty war weary with all the shit that's been thrown at them for the last 50 years , so odds are very little support for war in the Bonelands against necromancers ,since they will be pretty far away from just about everyone and everything they consider worth fighting for and they have easier and more rewarding targets for their armies

the Skaven are not a concern since necromancers hard counter them and they know it , never mind fighting them in the Bonelands were they would have infinite undead to call upon on demand , same goes for the depleted green skins

right now is the Strigoi's best shot to gather their people and rebuild the empire with all their enemies and opposition depleted , giving plenty of time to get really established before anyone make a move

it would be a cool addition to the setting a new vampire nation , which I could see being just as hostile to the other vampire bloodlines as the rest of the Old World if not more so since they saw what happened last time they trusted them
 
mmgaballah said:
any chance for us to see a Strigoi nation resurgence , as soon as the whaaah in the bonelands is broken would be the best chance for them to move into the bone lands and reestablish their nation
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unfortunately, the Strigany will take extremely poorly to being forcibly deported into the Bonelands, because it is near certain death, and the Empire will never work alongside the Strigoi.
Lament their tragedy, sure, but they get the same ceaseless purging all the same.
I, too, think a resurgent Strigoi holdout would probably do a lot of good, but even barring the many powerful entities immediately interested in its destruction, if anyone would do it is not the Empire. Additionaly, the Strigoi themselves have been attempting to rebuild for millenia, and every time they show a shadow of progress, their vampiric 'kin' immediately beat them back down.

Ergo… unfortunately not viable.
 
Last edited:
Chimeraguard said:
Now I'm thinking we need a Total War Warhammer Legendary Lord that's all about actually restoring Strigos to its former glory (and beyond.)

Shame there's not really (to my knowledge, and I'm far from an expert) and big-name Strigoi to fit the bill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's three from Night's Dark Masters that I could see being used potentially though I doubt it would ever happen, one of whom has a Lore Location in the Dark Lands. The latter being Vorag Bloodytooth, a true Ghoul King in that he gathered a vast swarm of them and started working to try and reclaim their ancestral lands centuries after its original fall. Then he built a fortress in the Dark Lands which stands today, one built by enslaved greenskins and his ghouls. Unfortunately, in his conflicts against the hated greenskins which the Strigoi hate so very much (the humans sent against them were also manipulated by the Lahmians, but humans are potential citizens and tax payers and the natural ones to be commanded/led by vampires. Greenskins are greenskins.) he got killed. But considering TWW literally went 'and uh, Vlad and Isabella are back. How? Because they are. They got revived, and now they're back.' that's not too far a stretch for some devoted Strigany to do the same for Vorag or something.

Another would be Urzen the Unrelenting, who is the most powerful Strigoi that is currently active (a great many Strigoi are so despondent they've gone to slumber in deep caves for centuries, a state of being which relieves them of the weakness/need to drink blood). Urzen was Ushoran's military advisor, and is absolutely FURIOUS at Neferata. His big dream isn't even restoring Strigos, it's straight up annihilating the Silver Pinnacle and tearing Neferata to pieces personally. According to Night's Dark Masters he's building and drilling a massive army of ghouls and undead in the Forest of Shadows, and even has agents spread out in Ostland who inform the humans on the Lahmians - literally turning one of the usual anti-Strigoi tricks of Neferata's line back on them. Of course, in DoDA, I positioned Zacharias the Everliving to be the Ur-Vampire of all Ostland and he would never have brooked Urzen's presence there, so in DoDa he ain't, but in TWW he could start up there.

Finally, and somewhat but perhaps not least of all, would be Gashnag, The Black Prince, who is one of multiple Strigoi holding court in the Border Princes. The difference is that Gashnag curiously and interestingly does not actually make use of lots of necromancy or ghouls. Instead, he has aligned most strongly with Ushoran's principles, and rules a steadily growing, prosperous, well-defended and governed micronation. He does not have the desire to be worshipped as a God, like some of the more deluded Strigoi, but instead chooses to be considered a tragic but romantic hero - paying bards and storytellers to speak of the terrible curse which makes him appear beastly and savage but was once quite handsome. And that he is only seen on the battlements at night, and at a distance, and only is seen personally by his closest advisors, but in public has a huge cloak which covers his hideous body utterly. All violence reserved for enemies of his kingdom, and quoting from Night's Dark Masters 'the sheer dedicated security and romantic allusions has caused the province to swell in population in recent years. If this continues, the Black Prince may very well succeed where his sire failed and return the Strigoi to a great power once again - and one far closer to the Empire'.

So all three could work, potentially, as Legendary Lords for TWW. Urzen in Ostland, Vorag in the Dark Lands, Gashnag in the Border Princes.
 
mmgaballah said:
their vampiric 'kin' are as of recently up shit creek in a sinking canoe with no paddle , I explained that in my post didn't you read it ?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Their vampiric kin are weaker than they have been for generations, but the Lahmians are still reaching our favourite vampiric duo all the way in the Far East- they almost certainly have the strength in them to slap around their hated kin some more if the alternative is their resurgence.

Additonally, the Strigoi, too, are 'up shit creek' alongside the same people who would crush them, and this plan relies on a resurgent Strigoi, not a Strigoi who've just lost a lot of their strength and been further scattered with the Vampire War and the Sylvanian crusades.
 
Shine said:
Additonally, the Strigoi, too, are 'up shit creek' alongside the same people who would crush them, and this plan relies on a resurgent Strigoi, not a Strigoi who've just lost a lot of their strength and been further scattered with the Vampire War and the Sylvanian crusades.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
dude , did you really not read the whole post ?, I also explained that as well , the Strigoi would have been the least effected by the purges and hunts since by this point they have been of the receiving end of so many that any of them from just about everyone that those who haven't gotten stupidly good at hiding are already dead
 
I know, I'm just trying to explain why i disagree.
I just believe that the balance of power between the Vampiric bloodlines have not been as altered as you say, for the long and short of it. The Strigoi have definitely been taking punishing hits, since although they're experts at hiding at the edges of the world, they're also the Bloodline most likely to refuse all retreat.

Edit: Especially because for this to work, the balance has to be so shifted the Strigoi can openly move to set up in the Bonelands.

Edit: If you do want to set up a resurgent Strigoi, then it's probably easier to try and support Gashnag anyways, assuming we're willing to throw in with vampires. Unlike trying to rally and relocate an enormous amount of strength into the Bonelands, Gashnag already has a power base, and presumably a plan.

Edit: Now watch as the Strigoi actually do have a resurgence in the Bonelands and I absolutely eat crow.
I won't be too mad, though, that sounds *sick*.
 
Last edited:
Shine said:
Do we have so much magic we could raise and sink small islands, and tens of thousands of superhuman warriors who've trained centuries to defend their home to their last breath, as well as small armies of primeval terrors who are your ancient blood-bound allies to defend your mutual homes?

If not, then no, we're nowhere close, and it's for good reason the Druuchi are not cavalier with the safety of their Black Arks.

(Or at least the irreplaceable original ones that they all are here, I'm not completely certain what is and is not a Black Ark in canon.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do the Black Arks announce their arrival and let the asur gather such forces?
To be clear, I agree that the Asur are basically the order superpower for a reason. So they could and probably should have such forces. But can they concentrate those forces in time? When "in time" means contesting memetic ultra raiders, it's an important distinction.

As you can tell, I am assuming that such feats/forces are not in abundance. I initially wrote a lengthy reasoning, but deleted it as even I probably wouldn't have read something that long and elaborative without good reason.

The short of it is: if either of the elves had the capability to project that kind of force at each and every one of their "Salkalten"s, then they would have either conquered the world, destroyed the world, or destroyed each other. So the Asur shouldn't be able to field the kind of force you describe without forewarning/preparation to concentrate that force in the first place.

So, finally, it is not at all unreasonable that our decades of player-fueled tech, martial expansion, and obsessive growth/preparation all concentrated into our hardest defensive point can match some random Asur Salkalten that was at least somewhat surprised by a Black Ark attack.
 
Last edited:
Halil said:
So, finally, it is not at all unreasonable that our decades of player-fueled tech, martial expansion, and obsessive growth/preparation all concentrated into our hardest defensive point can match some random Asur Salkalten that was surprised by a Black Ark attack.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is true.
I just described what the Asur would probably prefer to attack a Black Ark, but you're absolutely correct that they don't normally have what they like. We definitely fielding a stronger garrison than mundane Asur coastal town #11.
 
Last edited:
Shine said:
That is true.
I just described what the Asur would probbaly prefer to attack a Black Ark, but you're absolutely correct that they don't normally have what they like.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That makes perfect sense; I didn't realize you meant it that way. I fully agree with what you said then, because we certainly cannot field what a global superpower could, given the opportunity.
 
Shine said:
B. It's going to take a long time to mine a significant chunk of Two Islands out, and if Malekith hears we still have two 90% Black Arks intact, we'll be immediately doing this all over again- but probably worse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then we'll do it again. But this time, with Sealord ready for ambush.

We manage a 2nd defense, then Malekith either takes the field himself or has to abandon this doomed venture.
Seriously
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Guys, this isn't the thread to complain about the End Times.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Can this be the thread to complain about Morathi then? She's the reason why the Druchii got as bad as they did. Normally it's wrong to blame the parent for the sins of the child. Except that she's been around for so long and influenced so many things aside from her son that YES. YES SHE IS TO BLAME FOR EVERYTHING.

Whatever the Druchii have done, her fault partially or indirectly.
Aside from the awful things things she has absolutely done directly.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
We manage a 2nd defense, then Malekith either takes the field himself or has to abandon this doomed venture.
Seriously
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What.
You want to do this, a couple years later, again.
And then *bait Malekith* into personally abandoning whatever Delenda Est Asur scheme he's on now, and turning it on the *Empire*.

Malekith, the person directly responsible for the downfall of both Ulthuan and the Everpeak, the man who survived the wrath of Asuryan, the man who got hurled into the warp and Doom-Slayered his way out a decade later, the *only elf in possibly all of history with T4*.

That Malekith.
Even assuming Ostland survive Druchitide 2 with Asur allies, almost immediately after the Beasttide, Malekith personally coming over has a high chance of kicking off the War of Vengeance 2 with the Eonir, Empire, Asur and Dawi one one side and the Druuchi and Chaos on the other (and Chaos will show up, mark my word), with the Empire caught directly in the crossfire.

Even if we were strong, we, the entire Empire, *would not survive that*.

And they *still* might reclaim their Black Arks.

No, just do the world a favour and destroy or hand them off. I do not want to do this again, even with Asur favour, and I 100% do not want Malekith's personal attention. Although occupying that much Druuchi power would shift the endless naval war in favour of Good, that's not worth the Empire to do it.
 
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Then we'll do it again. But this time, with Sealord ready for ambush.

We manage a 2nd defense, then Malekith either takes the field himself or has to abandon this doomed venture.
Seriously
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Literally the only attentions I fear more or equally to Malekith are his mom, the 4's greatest Greater Daemons, and Archaon (who doesn't even exist yet). Give the Empire 200 years of literal perfect military and societal growth and I still wouldn't want Malekith looking anywhere near us. That's just asking for painful, painful death. Man's literally just Vader but the mommy issues are somehow even worse, and that's scary
 
Last edited:
TheCynicalPogo said:
Literally the only attentions I fear more or equally to Malekith are his mom, the 4's greatest Greater Daemons, and Archaon (who doesn't even exist yet). Give the Empire 200 years of literal perfect military and societal growth and I still wouldn't want Malekith looking anywhere near us. That's just asking for painful, painful death. Man's literally just Vader but the mommy issues are somehow even worse, and that's scary
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I am concerned that we might be conflating Malekiths's personal power with what the DE can practically do.

I could be wrong, but hasn't Malekith been failing to take a foothold on his primary target - one the size of a small continent - for however many millennia?I 'm sure he could steamroll whatever the Empire could send against him in person, but there are obviously mitigating factors against his overwhelming power.

Also, you mention 200 years of perfect development and Archaon. I'm not going to worry over the details of the former, as it can get pedantic fast, but the two make for a neat coincidence (2304-2502 being Magnus's and Franz's birth years respectively). Actually, did you do that on purpose? :V

So could Malekith have done better than Archaon? If not, things are not so hopeless.

...Also, Shardbearers can't hold ground + 2 vs 20 million population grumble grumble.

Edit: I think I'm mixing up chaos invasions due to an overwhelming amount of smacking Archaon around in TW. Lore people, help. Also, the difficulty of finding concrete numbers on big logistics in Warhammer is incredible. Understandable, but frustrating.
 
Last edited:
Shine said:
What.
You want to do this, a couple years later, again.
And then *bait Malekith* into personally abandoning whatever Delenda Est Asur scheme he's on now, and turning it on the *Empire*.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree. We're already freaking out over two of them, we don't want to challenge his authority that he brings a bunch more over.

Halil said:
I could be wrong, but hasn't Malekith been failing to take a foothold on his primary target - one the size of a small continent - for however many millennia?I 'm sure he could steamroll whatever the Empire could send against him in person, but there are obviously mitigating factors against his overwhelming power.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Right now, if we just repulse or even sink the two Black Arks against us, it'll just be a big humiliation for Ghrond and whoever they roped in, and the rival cities will move to capitalize. Business as usual. If we start lording over having captured Black Arks and plundering their secrets, then that becomes a general humiliation for the Druchii, and the odds of Malekith - with the backing of the entire Naggarothi empire - deciding an example really needs to be made skyrockets.
 
Capturing an ark is such an out there thought idk why it's being discussed. We'll be lucky if Salkalten survives this assault. Let alone pulls off anything resembling winning.

Winning might not even be in our favor. We'd be even more of a target afterwards. If we successfully drive then away, we become more than a blip on their radar. That's unavoidable. If we somehow sink an ark, every druchii will know our name. If we capture one, use one, I can imagine Malekith himself responding.

I'm fascinated to see what direction it goes in, but it really seems like people's expectations here are really out there.
 
Knightperson said:
Capturing an ark is such an out there thought idk why it's being discussed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm fascinated to see what direction it goes in, but it really seems like people's expectations here are really out there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It is the nature of questors to fantasize about the beyond best possibilities.

Winning might not even be in our favor. We'd be even more of a target afterwards. If we successfully drive then away, we become more than a blip on their radar. That's unavoidable. If we somehow sink an ark, every druchii will know our name. If we capture one, use one, I can imagine Malekith himself responding.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can't respond to a threat by hiding away. Whatever happens, winning will always be in our favor.
 
Last edited:
Shine said:
What.
You want to do this, a couple years later, again.
And then *bait Malekith* into personally abandoning whatever Delenda Est Asur scheme he's on now, and turning it on the *Empire*.

Malekith, the person directly responsible for the downfall of both Ulthuan and the Everpeak, the man who survived the wrath of Asuryan, the man who got hurled into the warp and Doom-Slayered his way out a decade later, the *only elf in possibly all of history with T4*.

That Malekith.
Even assuming Ostland survive Druchitide 2 with Asur allies, almost immediately after the Beasttide, Malekith personally coming over has a high chance of kicking off the War of Vengeance 2 with the Eonir, Empire, Asur and Dawi one one side and the Druuchi and Chaos on the other (and Chaos will show up, mark my word), with the Empire caught directly in the crossfire.

Even if we were strong, we, the entire Empire, *would not survive that*.

And they *still* might reclaim their Black Arks.

No, just do the world a favour and destroy or hand them off. I do not want to do this again, even with Asur favour, and I 100% do not want Malekith's personal attention. Although occupying that much Druuchi power would shift the endless naval war in favour of Good, that's not worth the Empire to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree. The Empire cannot stand another attack like this. ALONE.
If we want the Dawi and the Elgi to start working together again this needs to happen in one form or another.
The Karaz Ankor has Oaths to defend us. The Asur will not let a black ark go if they can.

Black Arks are massive force multipliers. They are centers of trade, magic, slavery and a force projection platform bar none.
And if the spells are revealed to the Asur, the Dawi, and to the colleges? The remaining Black Arks will be that much more vulnerable.

This is equivalent to capturing/destroying two major enemy cities then finding a vulnerability in the rest of the same.
We don't even need to keep the Black Arks here. We can park them wherever is advantageous.
Or we can use them to suicide rush a different black ark.

Make no mistake, if we can get this repair this alliance? The Druchii will be on the back foot. Every black ark lost is irreplaceable.
And everyone sunk is a victory for all of us.

The Druchii have commited two irreplaceable assets into this attack in their arrogance. Malekith is many powerful and terrifying things but the loss of not one but two Black Arks will destabilize the cities/factions that owned them.
A blood bath will occur as they rip each other apart to gain Malekith's favor.

And if the illusion of their great naval power lies in tatters? Who's to say that Brettonia won't join in the fun?
Araby, Cathay,Ind. Anyone and everyone who has problems with the Druchii will stand watch...Waiting for their shot at plunder or revenge.

Will he(Malekith) send an attack as revenge? Maybe.
But it's hard to top two black arks. Harder to justify sending it against a place that ate two of yours.
And who knows? Perhaps the Fulcrum shall be revealed during this current insanity? And the importance of our little province skyrockets and everyone and their mother hurries to try and deny the prize to the enemy.

We're already playing the big game. Winning this fight will paint a target on our back no matter what happens.
And it will plant banner for our allies to rally around. A seed for the alliance between men, elves and dwarves.

Bring it on you crispy momma's boy!
BRING IT ONNNNN!!!!
EVA-Saiyajin said:
It is the nature of questors to fantasize about the beyond best possibilities.


We can't respond to a threat by hiding away. Whatever happens, winning will always be in our favor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Allowing ourselves to be raided is a mistake. Simply because the Fulcrum is there.
If the Druchii capture it, they'll never let it go.
 
Last edited:
I agree on a theoretical level with most of your points, but you have picked an atrocious time to do so. In your theoretical round two, the Empire has just exhausted itself fighting the Greenskins, and, at best, fighting off the Beasttide (There is every chance they may decide to strike while it's ongoing). What you are suggesting is effectively the second coming of the War of Vengeance, fought on our lands, just after the Empire finished doing at least two already quite important and probably difficult military actions. The Dwarves and the Asur working together is clealry possible, as demonstrated by Sea Lord Aislinn, and Barak Varr, and I agree if they did so more it would be great, but their doing so to punish the Druchi is not worth fighting a war that would crush us in collateral damage alone.

If you absolutely must provoke the Druchi, we should do so by sending an Imperial fleet to back the Asur while the Empire is strong, ready to fight them over a battlefield of our choice, having already secured guarantees from all of our allies (and fought their more pertinent issues too), instead of purposefully provoking a global superpower to come kill us all in the belief that the counter-alliance that forms will do so quickly enough to preserve Ostland and the Empire.

Edit: And once more, taking Black Ark discussions are still hopium.
 
Last edited:
Shine said:
Edit: And once more, taking Black Ark discussions are still hopium.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Waiting for the update does bring our imaginations into the most fantastic places.
We've voted. Nothing to do but wait and grow our epileptic consiracy trees ponder what could be.
Shine said:
If you absolutely must provoke the Druchi, we should do so by sending an Imperial fleet to back the Asur while the Empire is strong, ready to fight them over a battlefield of our choice, having already secured guarantees from all of our allies (and fought their more pertinent issues too), instead of purposefully provoking a global superpower to come kill us all in the belief that the counter-alliance that forms will do so quickly enough to preserve Ostland and the Empire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If they're chasing the Black Arks then we can pick where to fight. Having two of ours(Because Hopium) will force them to commit two of theirs.
It's untenable to send two of them after already losing two. They'd need 3 black arks to secure a win.
I don't think he'll be willing to do that.

Worst case scenario is if they learn about the Fulcrum. Then instead of two reasons... They'll have three.
1)Albion humiliation/slave loss
2)CAptured/Destroyed BA(s)
Plus
3) Ostland Fulcrum capture

And we can't pick the battle ground in this case.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Back
Top