Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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[] Plan: Salkalten and Net
-[] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[] Leave the Army of the Forest South - While they will not aid in the battles at the coast, they will be able to better protect the interior of Ostland should the Druchii make a march south, as well as any other unforseen threats.
-[] Barbed Net - Let the flagellants spread out in the now evacuated coastal settlements beyond Salkalten. Any ships that attempt to raid there will find a horrible surprise, and the flagellants may well manage to put some of the Druchii down. They will not, however, be available immediately if fighting occurs at Salkalten.

This the best option i think they may do a doubel landing in 2 locations to surround Salkalten
 
Leave Ortrud Troops with Magnus with Half of the Army of the Forest, send all the flagellants north together with the other Half of the Army of the Forest.
 
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Noroboro said:
Seriously? Who's saying that? One tank and cannon do not make up for 50 cannons and the thousands of men and women in the Army of the Forest. We do not know if a Titan Cannon can actually one shot a hydra since we've never actually seen it in use so let's not overshoot its possible damage. A singular tank cannot withstand an attack from a sorceress if she decides to hang back and blast it with a ritual, or if a Black Dragon decides to swoop down and crush it, or whatever other possible creatures the Drucchi have with them.

Magnus will have the Army of the Range and the reinforcements from Ostermark to back him up. Besides, it's not like Freddy and the armies are all going to die to a man at the coast. They have the ability to retreat and form up later to harass the Drucchi. Salkalten can be rebuilt, we've rebuilt it once before and we've rebuilt several towns after the Vampire War.
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torroar said:
Ostland Innovation: The Steam Tanks of Nuln are famous across the entire Old World. They have been the lynchpins of dozens of incredibly famous battles, breaking WAAAGHs!!, shattering the towers of necromancers, and smashing through the ranks of beastmen. They were created with the genius of Leonardo di Miragliano, widely considered to be the finest human engineer ever to live. Unfortunately, he never got around to telling anyone else how to work the things perfectly, and as such since his death many centuries ago, the Steam Tanks have become treasures only deployed in the rarest of circumstances. Mostly because they sometimes kill their crews as the superheated steam goes everywhere, or they explode, or they lose speed and power and get surrounded and torn apart at close range. Or, in one terribly memorable case, kicked by a giant so hard that the crew was reduced to a sort of red chunky soup. Yet their power and effectiveness are such that it has not stopped their use, nor endless attempts to replicate them. All previous attempts have, up until now, failed. But now, emerging from the workshops of Ostland, comes something new, and yet familiar. Named the Vapor Tank, due to its usage of a unique alcoholic vapor engine rather than steam, the Engineers of Ostland revealed their new creation and rather predictably for their province immediately set about killing things with it. All throughout the northern province's active purging work, the Vapor Tank was there, blasting away with its cannon or slamming into and grinding the enemy beneath it's massive metal bulk. It's existence, and effectiveness, are undeniable. It is said that the engineers of Nuln are very much not pleased with this, jealous and envy abounds. Already, there are rumors of them falling upon their precious steam tanks at all hours of the day, desperate to study them and figure out a way to reproduce them, something that is apparently perfectly possible with the Vapor Tank, flatly refusing to believe that another could best their expertise on this matter considering their long stewardship of the things.
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torroar said:
- Ordinarily, the creation of a Titan Cannon is a lengthy and horrendously precise process. The sheer size of the thing means the usage of fully customized tools and molds. It's size also means that there are a great many possible occasions for flaws to be introduced within the thickness of the barrel, flaws that could go potentially unseen. That, coupled with the usual production requirements of the school means that a great many engineers and foundries are being used on cannon and handgun and war invention production for provincial use as well as trade to elsewhere in the Old World. But, given the dire threat facing Ostland, this was time to truly focus. A single Titan Cannon will not bring down an entire Black Ark. A dozen of the things couldn't do that, Black Arks are literally moving floating islands. But they'll be useful against what the damn things carry. You've never fought a hydra on the battlefield before. Maybe this new Titan Cannon and its older sibling might keep you from having to. 1 Titan Cannon due to Production over Development Selected
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Look, the Vapor tanks, and the Titan Cannon are effective enough to be given the acknowledgement they are for single engines of war, effective. That effectiveness does point towards being effective enough to substitute 25 Great Cannons, 25 Dash Cannons, and 15238 bodies of the Army of the Forest. Don't forget the Army of Ostland has 30 Great Cannons, 25 Dash Cannons, 1 Dash Volley Cannon, 3 Barrel Throwers, 1 Titan Cannon, Ogre units (Pulverizers, Thunderbringers, Steelbacks), wizard retainers, the two elves, Hohenzollerns. Not having the Army of The Forest at Salkalten is not a guarantee loss for the fighting at Salkalten.

Army of Ostland has 18743 bodies according to present front page. QM didn't update those numbers to reflect the choices made in Turn 40? I believe the answer is no. So, Army of Ostland has two Titan Cannons.

The Army of the Forest has 15238 bodies.

Who said Magnus will have the reinforcements from Ostermark? Those five thousand reinforcments are going to Salkalten, aren't they? The obvious location of needed aid against the druchii and why Ostermark is mobilising their forces to aid Ostland? That group is bringing Jades with them, so logically they should go to Salkalten, right?

Magnus will have no wizards, no Titan Cannon, no Vapor tank, no ogre units. He might have the Army of the Range, if the Army of the Range won't be forced to disperse throughout the whole province. The Army of the Range doesn't have ogre units, no vapor tanks, no titan cannon. Magnus needs the Army of the Forest if something happens, and we can spare the Army of the forest because as said we have stuff to allow Ostland the option to leave Magnus the Army of the Forest.

edit: I keep forgtting Magnus will at least, maybe, have the Greys.
edit2: And Magnus won't have the mercenaries. Freddy has the mercenaries for the coast fight against the druchii.
 
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If we have allies on the way, would it be wise to play defensively? Try to hold our enemies down at the coast, bleed as little as possible, and launch an offensive with Dwarven and Elven allies.

The alternative is attacking hard and quickly, which on one hand would decrease the forces coming into Salkatern, but might also leave us starved of reserves for pursuit or the Beasttide. I don't think we can hit nearly hard enough to justify it overmuch, though.
 
I want the black arks to land on Ostland since we have no means to fight them effectively at sea, but we can fuck up their armies.

Still hope we can use cannons and fire magic to set fire to the Arks and cause major damage that way, or at least seriously damage armies.
 
I'd like to try the Line Loop. If we don't try that or the boarding action then our fleet is irrelevant, and frankly? I'd rather sacrifice their lives to grind down the enemy if only slightly before the land armies engage. The Line Loops seems slightly less suicidal than the Swarm Strike.

EDIT: Oh don't worry they'll still land in any scenario. It's just a question of if we want to trade a destroyed fleet for weakening them a bit before they do.
 
Briefvoice said:
I'd like to try the Line Loop. If we don't try that or the boarding action then our fleet is irrelevant, and frankly? I'd rather sacrifice their lives to grind down the enemy if only slightly before the land armies engage. The Line Loops seems slightly less suicidal than the Swarm Strike.

EDIT: Oh don't worry they'll still land in any scenario. It's just a question of if we want to trade a destroyed fleet for weakening them a bit before they do.
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Well, the options do say the expected Fleet loss.
torroar said:
[] Swarm Strike - Likely to ensure ruinous casualties amongst Fleet forces, trying to surround and corral Black Ark and any attendant ships present in the middle of the Sea of Claws. Will cause unknown amounts of damage to Black Ark(s?) as they surge towards Ostland's coast.
[] Line Loop - Likely to ensure ruinous casualties amongst Fleet forces, allowing Black Ark(s?) closer towards the coastline and then surround them after they get close enough for possible long-range reinforcement from Salkalten's walls.
[] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
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The only choice that gives us an unknown casualty estimate on the Fleet forces is "Crushed Anvil", with a high chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark. The "Swarm Strike" and "Line Loop" choices deliver an estimate of ruinous casualties to Fleet forces.

So, if Ostland wants to eliminate harm the Black Arks for certain, Ostland would need to take "Crushed Anvil" for the opportunity to do so. Otherwise the Fleet (solely composed of Ostland's Fleet, nobody else, as Stephan said he'll perform the "Crushed Anvil" tactic too) won't be able to aid Ostland against two Black arks controlled by a race of long lived beings who really, really, want revenge. Failure needs to be final here for the druchii, so they don't come back in a year or two.
 
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The whole Normandy, mine the beaches, idea is looking way more likely if we let the Black Arks land on our coasts. Make it a nasty surprise for their landing troops.
 
Briefvoice said:
I'd like to try the Line Loop. If we don't try that or the boarding action then our fleet is irrelevant, and frankly? I'd rather sacrifice their lives to grind down the enemy if only slightly before the land armies engage. The Line Loops seems slightly less suicidal than the Swarm Strike.

EDIT: Oh don't worry they'll still land in any scenario. It's just a question of if we want to trade a destroyed fleet for weakening them a bit before they do.
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See, I think the fleet will be more effective after the Arks beach themselves and disgorge their armies.

For one, the fleet will find it easier to board a beached Ark than a mobile one, so we can still use them for that purpose.

Two: If the Druchii have not killed our fleets, they will be forced to leave behind a larger garrison on the Arks to ward off attacks. Weakening their landing forces.

Three: If our fleets remain at full strength, they can pair up with the Barrak Var fleet when it arrives, significantly increasing their ability to actually accomplish lasting, meaningful damage.
 
[X] Plan: Salkalten and Fist
[] Plan: All in
-[X] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[X] Summon the Army of the Forest North - It will remove the Army of the Forest from their patrol routes throughout inner Ostland, but will provide significant reinforcement to Salkalten.
-[X] Sacrificial Fist - Should one or both Arks hit Salkalten, they will likely unleash deadly creatures and troops that could be, possibly, slowed by the presence of flagellants throwing themselves forward. Retain them for just such a purpose.

[] Plan: All in + Net
-[X] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[X] Summon the Army of the Forest North - It will remove the Army of the Forest from their patrol routes throughout inner Ostland, but will provide significant reinforcement to Salkalten.
-[X] Barbed Net - Let the flagellants spread out in the now evacuated coastal settlements beyond Salkalten. Any ships that attempt to raid there will find a horrible surprise, and the flagellants may well manage to put some of the Druchii down. They will not, however, be available immediately if fighting occurs at Salkalten.

if we are gonna do anvil we got to go all in on it
 
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torroar said:
50 Thunderbringers – An armored ogre striding forth wielding a Bull Cannon, a modified design of the Imperial Cannon (Greater Attack, Greater Defense, Low Mobility)
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torroar said:
268 Artillerists - Cannon Swabbers to Master Engineers, They Crew The Cannons. 5 Per Great Cannon/4 Per Dash Cannon/5 Per Dash Volley Cannon/2 Per Barrel Thrower / 7 Per Titan Cannon [30 Great Cannons] [25 Dash Cannons] [1 Dash Volley Cannon] [3 Barrel Throwers] [1 Titan Cannon]
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@torroar
1. Are there any specialized Artillerists maintaining the Bull Cannons of the Thunderbringers and Urgug's Maelstrombringers? I cannot remember if the Thunderbringers do all maintenance, and loading and firing of the cannon, themselves, or not. 75 Bull Cannons... Yeah, I feel the Army of Ostland has cannons.
2. Does Natasha have her Kreml Guard with her in Salkalten?

Just a reminder, Adelaide Hertwig (Daughter of Frederica Hertwig nee von Kessel) - Alive/BD: 2326 = would be turning 18 in 2344 IC, and Hedwig von Kessel (Daughter of Stephan von Kessel) - Alive/BD: 2325 = would be turning 19 in 2344 IC.

Woltaire said:
[X] Plan: All in
-[X] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[X] Summon the Army of the Forest North - It will remove the Army of the Forest from their patrol routes throughout inner Ostland, but will provide significant reinforcement to Salkalten.
-[X] Sacrificial Fist - Should one or both Arks hit Salkalten, they will likely unleash deadly creatures and troops that could be, possibly, slowed by the presence of flagellants throwing themselves forward. Retain them for just such a purpose.

[X] Plan: All in + Net
-[X] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[X] Summon the Army of the Forest North - It will remove the Army of the Forest from their patrol routes throughout inner Ostland, but will provide significant reinforcement to Salkalten.
-[X] Barbed Net - Let the flagellants spread out in the now evacuated coastal settlements beyond Salkalten. Any ships that attempt to raid there will find a horrible surprise, and the flagellants may well manage to put some of the Druchii down. They will not, however, be available immediately if fighting occurs at Salkalten.

if we are gonna do anvil we got to go all in on it
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torroar said:
We do not do approval voting here.
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No approval voting.

[X] Plan: Salkalten and Net
-[X] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[X] Leave the Army of the Forest South - While they will not aid in the battles at the coast, they will be able to better protect the interior of Ostland should the Druchii make a march south, as well as any other unforseen threats.
-[X] Barbed Net - Let the flagellants spread out in the now evacuated coastal settlements beyond Salkalten. Any ships that attempt to raid there will find a horrible surprise, and the flagellants may well manage to put some of the Druchii down. They will not, however, be available immediately if fighting occurs at Salkalten.

[] Plan: Salkalten and Fist
-[] Crushed Anvil - Highest chance of causing actual damage to any Black Ark that heads for the coast, unknown casualties for Fleet forces, meant to attack Ark once it has beached itself and is forced into one place.
-[] Leave the Army of the Forest South - While they will not aid in the battles at the coast, they will be able to better protect the interior of Ostland should the Druchii make a march south, as well as any other unforseen threats.
-[] Sacrificial Fist - Should one or both Arks hit Salkalten, they will likely unleash deadly creatures and troops that could be, possibly, slowed by the presence of flagellants throwing themselves forward. Retain them for just such a purpose.
 
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It's times like these that make me wish poor Freddy had some good ol' fashioned Helstorm Rocket Batteries to throw at his foes. If only we could give them a proper Estalian welcome...
 
Wait, we did do the additional artillery option in Turn 40, shouldn't we have 10 Dash Volley guns and 5 to 8 Barrel Throwers in the Army of Ostland? Plus 10 DVGs and 5 Barrel Throwers in the other armies?
 
Blazblade said:
Wait, we did do the additional artillery option in Turn 40, shouldn't we have 10 Dash Volley guns and 5 to 8 Barrel Throwers in the Army of Ostland? Plus 10 DVGs and 5 Barrel Throwers in the other armies?
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We did, and we do. It's just torroar hasn't updated the army sheet to reflect the Turn 40 stuff. Like, you'll notice that our Fleet numbers are currently wrong, and should be higher. However, these are things torroar probably won't want to get to right now until after everything in Ostland with the druchii, the bestmen, and the greenskins, is over, as the numbers are gonna change after all this.
 
So like there's no merit to any choice other than crushed anvil? Then why is it even a vote if there's no possible greater reward from other options, even at greater risk? Would not doing crushed anvil accomplish anything that crushed anvil won't do?
 
torroar said:
"It is entirely likely," Sadrina finally says, still keeping her hands clapped together, "That they may well simply ram an Ark directly into the city's defenses, smashing through wall after wall, crushing and sailing through any ships immediately in their way."
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Wait, really? All those dwarf-made artificial reefs and walls, and they can just ram right through?
 
Marlin said:
We did, and we do. It's just torroar hasn't updated the army sheet to reflect the Turn 40 stuff. Like, you'll notice that our Fleet numbers are currently wrong, and should be higher. However, these are things torroar probably won't want to get to right now until after everything in Ostland with the druchii, the bestmen, and the greenskins, is over, as the numbers are gonna change after all this.
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So while the list doesn't show them we should consider the updates and upgrades as already being in the armies?
 
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