[X] Plan Three Prongs

Rather we at least send some one to help the dwarves. More for politics than anything else, and it should give Magnus more prestige as well. That and all of our allies are also sending their heirs as well.
 
Last edited:
Yea that was a dumbass move. Only reason they won is cause of plot. Those gates would've made an excellent chokepoint. Really, the only chokepoint. Heaven knows how many units I've killed in total war thanks to gates funneling my enemies.

In the book at least, they were sorrounded by orcs exiting not from the Black Gate, but from the sorrounding mountains. They also set up their position in two hills mostly sorrounded by marshes.

And "winning because of plot" was the whole point of the battle; even in the movie, they went there while knowing that they couldn't win.

Ooohhhh shit that was a thing wasn't it. Now I remember why I always disliked the GT. Man, now I'm low-key hoping he doesn't come back from the south expedition. Slimy bastard.

If after this is over we are all still alive, I bet Magnus will have a few words with him.
Fuck Molatok.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan Three Prongs

Rather we at least send some one to help the dwarves. More for politics than anything else, and it should give Magnus more prestige as well. That and all of our allies are also sending their hairs as well.
Where did you find that information?
"We're preparing as best we can," Stephan says, now much more sober than yesterday. "Our fleets are marshalling, and I am already evacuating what can be from the coast to more fortified positions."

Ortrud starts speaking as Gunthar's sneer forms on his face, blatantly interrupting the man after he gets the first syllable out.

"Ostermark will be sending troops west to aid Ostland and Nordland. We will not abandon our oaths to defend our fellow members of the Trident."
I am fairly sure that torroar mentioned that Ortrud sent no troops south. Please give us a quote to substantiate your statement in regards of the heirs.

Edit: provided 'hairs' is just a spelling mistake of heirs.
 
Last edited:
In the book at least, they were sorrounded by orcs exiting not from the Black Gate, but from the sorrounding mountains. They also set up their position in two hills mostly sorrounded by marshes.

And "winning because of plot" was the whole point of the battle; even in the movie, they went there while knowing that they couldn't win.



If after this is over we are all still alive, I bet Magnus will have a few words with him.
Fuck Molatok.

doesnt excuse not using whatever advantage you can, though. at least tolkien made sense.
 
I just realized something! Assuming we all survive we might get our research action back after all this as Averland is finally unleashing the stockpile of weapons we have been providing them for years!

Lets hope the tons of doomspheres, land mines, and other weapons help a lot. I expect the landmines at least to help deal with tons of fodder before Everpeak's gates.
 
Yeah if anything we're the ones kinda getting left high and dry here as the response to the biggest attack by the Dark elves in the history of the empire is

"uhhhh sorry kinda busy, Good luck and you're also responsible for the rest of the empire while we're gone. Byeeee"

It's mostly just the Trident and the dwarven navy .

We can't afford to send help hell we NEED HELP.

Yeah it sucks we can't support the dwarves again but we are starring down a double barrel and the rest of empire is sending almost everything to go help.

We're helping by letting them do that instead of insisting that the emperor actually does something to protect the north.
 
Well, shame we won't be sending Magnus to help out, but wasn't particularly opposed to either outcome. Assisting the Dwarves is good and all, but I think they'll probably understand that our back's against a wall here.
 
[CANON] Battle Altars of the Magic Colleges
Oooh, can you say more about these?

Sure, and I'll do more than that. For those of you not in the know, the two canon Battle Altars are the Luminarks of Hysh and the Celestial Hurricanum, but we also know that Teclis granted all of the various Colleges Orbs of Sorcery what contain that Wind in extremely powerful levels. So these are non-canonical ones that I envision the Colleges making. I will also note that there are very few Orbs of Sorcery. This is not TWW, you will not see a doomstack of Luminarks or any of the others.

Especially because the Light College decided to use every single one of their Orbs of Sorcery to help power the spell network safeguarding all of the horrific evil artefacts and what not that they couldn't destroy yet locked beneath the Light College. So any time you see a Luminark on the battlefield, one of the Hysh Orbs of Sorcery are missing from that crucial lattice of protection and binding. This is why a chunk of the Light College is staying behind, because, you know, kind of have to constantly be reinforcing that thing to make up for the missing Orbs.

And uh, you really don't want the things the Light College are keeping up to get out. For real.

Anyhow, the Luminarks of Hysh have 3 notable things about them, well 4 if you include the obvious 'they are chariot-pulled by horses and run by a team of wizards' thing.

1. Granting a Ward Save to those nearby.
2. Get better dispelling going on.
3. Solheim's Bolt of Illumination: Aka, their attack. A big ol' laser beam of Hysh what 'scythes through enemy ranks with the power of a solar flare'. Very powerful laser beam blast. Magic artillery, effectively.

The Celestial Hurricanum, on the other hand, are something that was brought up in the story before when we were discussing Cloud Altars/Storm Spheres. They are sort of like those, but also somewhat different. A fully activated Cloud Altar with Storm Spheres placed within causes storms and things, and these are not purely directable, some collateral is possible. Then again that's all sorts of things in Warhammer.

Anyway, normally the Celestial College use their Orbs of Sorcery for helping make super accurate future predictions. But in times of extreme need, they can be used in battle. One of the most major methods of this is no longer tracking the orbits of comets, but actually reaching up and dragging them down to earth. The difficulty, of course, is making the right alignments of the orrey system to make the right effects.

So they can do:
1. Increase magic in the area for you.
2. Improve your accuracy in hitting stuff due to, you know, seeing/being affected by portents of the future.
3. Storm of Shemtek: Now, the issue of this one is the unpredictability. It rolls each time they try to align it. Really hard to be 100% accurate with it. Anyway, it can do a little rain, or a bit of icy shards, to a straight up tornado, to a powerful lighting strike, or even bring down a meteor onto the target.

With all that in mind, we have the other Battle Altars for the other Colleges.

The Amethyst Mortisiary
So this one is, pretty much, purely an offensive weapon. It doesn't buff your troops, it doesn't make them hit more accurately, it doesn't reduce or increase the Winds of Magic for you or the enemy. The Mortisiary is something that looks sort of like a ringed circle of stone coffins upon a large platform, within which the orb of sorcery sits in its own little edifice/obelisk while the wizards utilize it. It has two main ones. The first is where they focus all its dread might onto a single target, i.e. a monster or something, and cast forth a basically supercharged version of the Caress of Laniph battlefield spell. In this case, called the Gaze of Morr. Second one weakens enemies, Soulblight spell, The third one is pulling out the Purple Sun of Xereus.

1. Gaze of Morr, direct specific person/monster damage.
2. Soulblight tears strength and toughness from people, making them that much easier to kill.
3. Purple Sun of Xereus, big ol' vortex sphere of death that the Altar's people can move around.

Ignusarum of Aqshy
So this is a mixture machine. Despite the whole 'rare Orb of Sorcery' thing, this device was primarily created by Von Tarnus. Aka a former veteran Greatsword. So it's a huge honking mass of super thick metal on six big metal wheels, basically like a sorta big ol oven, almost, except heat inside is good for the Bright Wizards using it.

It does two things, pretty much, but the first one is 2 inside itself. It's a huge buff machine, in that it simulcasts Cascading Fire Cloak and Flaming Sword of Rhuin aka 'anyone touching you suffers fire damage and also your weapons now deal fire damage', and is meant to be closer to the front lines than, say, the Luminarks or what not. Preferably close enough, as well, that the second function can go off, powerful wave of fire spell which will wash over the enemy as a column of fire.

1. Glorious Conflagration: Garbs nearby allied units and their weapons in fire, burning the enemy in two ways at once. From daring to come close, and from suffering your allies attentions with their now-enchanted weaponry.
2. Sweeping Inferno: A massive wave of fire comes crashing into existence, scorching even bones to ashes and superheating metals, directed by the wizards within the Battle Altar.

Golden Metallus Altar
This Altar was made with the intention of vastly improving the capabilities of the troops around and in front of it, the better to protect it and kill the enemy. The Wind of Chamon it channels are pretty directly put towards aiding the troops. This takes the form of, similarly to the above, buffing weapons and armor of troops nearby, only it can be targeted more, expanded, compared to the Bright Altar which sort of just does it in a field around it. In terms of offensive capability, it does possess some measure of that, primarily in removing an enemy's arms and armor from the equation. This thing looks sort of like a fortified forge and bellows system stuck onto a cart, enveloped in a metal cage with grilles letting the wizards inside look without. Plus, you know, various magical glowing bits and bobs.

1. Metalshifted Magnification: Powerful Gold Magic envelops a group of allies weapons, making them infinitely stronger and sharper than before for a period of time, while also hardening and empowering the metal armor that they wear. Can be utilized more than once, meaning multiple groups can enhanced over the course of the battle.
2. Pandemic of Rust: Chamon bursts forth upon the enemy in a great wave, corroding metal armor and weapons into rust, leaving the enemy with little more than their fists and flesh against the might of the Altar's allies.

Arbus Vitaerus of Ghyran
So when Matriarch Hildegaard was envisioning this Altar, it was basically like, what if Throne of Vines, but better. Also, not particularly offensively inclined. So, this Altar carries a much larger than usual Lifebloom field i.e. the thing where Jade Wizards get to recover a bit whenever they cast a spell, or a friend nearby, because of lifegiving Ghyran. It additionally casts healing spells at wider ranges, i.e. more people at once. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this looks like someone took a massive thicket and hacked off a piece and stuck it on a platform and cart pulled by Warhorses.

1. Aura of Life: Anytime the Altar casts a healing spell, a secondary healing effect is spread to those nearby.
2. Bloom of Life: Essentially Regrowth, but cast over a wider range/net of people when cast.

----

And, as mentioned, the Amber and Grey Colleges took one look at this super powerful magic Orbs of Sorcery that Teclis gave them and then at what everyone else was doing, and went: 'Yeah, nah. We'll put these to good use though.'
 
Last edited:
One of these forces is tied to ships which we can't sink ourselves, but the Dwarfs probably can, and the other is an unending tide of flesh which can only replenish it's ranks from warbands scattered across the old world. An arbitrary amount of infantry can be thrown against a Black Ark they'll simply die to magic and artillery. An arbitrary amount of infantry can be thrown at greenskins and kill them. If your solution to the Dark Elves is fight away from the coast then guess what the coast is destroyed and we would be better off simply abandoning it to conserve our army rather than waste thousands of lives fighting there. In that case we can achieve local superiority with our other forces, unless you think they are bringing a force in the high tens of thousands at which point quality will crush us anyways. The balance point where 10k men matter so much is a razors edge with the amount we already have at our disposal and threat we're facing.
The trick is that conflicts between a diffuse mass of highly mobile coastal raiders and an inland army aren't as simple as "just evacuate out of range." The definition of "in range of raids from the coast" depends in large part on how much freedom of action the raiders have to do stuff on shore.

For instance, can they send small ships up a river a day's sail, burn towns up there, and come back? Can their infantry build a fort on the coast as a base for cavalry raids? And so on, and so on.

Obviously our land armies cannot meaningfully challenge the druuchi Black Arks or any location within range of their gun-equivalents, except in some kind of bizarre good-luck scenario like "they manage to run a Black Ark aground so hard they can't immediately get it back off, and we have time to roll up our whole artillery train and begin siege operations like it was Divided Loyalties and we were trying to take down Castle Drakenhof."

But two Black Arks, powerful as they are, can only be in two places at once. To a large extent, the question of "how much harm will the druuchi do to our homeland" is going to be determined by how much the druuchi can get away with doing at distances of many miles from the Black Arks, either inland or at sea. Keeping the land armies relatively close to the coast as a 'fleet in being' against druuchi landing parties suggests that such a strategy is being attempted.

Which is a great argument for abandoning the indefensible coastal settlements. How does that make a difference in the fact we can expect to have 120-200k men alone to repel the attack? The threat isn't the Druchii themselves it's the neigh unassailable Black Arks. Unless each of those mercenaries is worth at least 2-3x their number in state troops and/or they can attack the Arks themselves without dying immediately they won't have a noticable impact on the arithmetic.
If all the druuchi can do is hang around their Arks while losing all the skirmishes and raids that try to move far away from them, they're screwed and will fall apart.
 
Huh so we do have have super weapons down there. Neat.

Shame we will not get to see those things in action anytime soon because they look fun to play with.
 
Huh, so while Teclis was the one that provided the Orbs of Sorcery, it was by and large his students that created the Altars?

Also could you threadmark that please?
 
Last edited:
Hehe, all this magic in one place will make the dwarfs itchy, but at least its on their side. Like a small glimpse of what their alliance with High Elves might have looked like ages ago.

Wonder how Kragg will react to it since he their foremost expert on magic and can feel winds easily.
 
Hey, @torroar, if Teclis was able to create the orbs of Sorcery for the colleges, why didn't he ever give the light college the ability of how to create them? Or, better yet, every few decades make a few more for all of the colleges he helped make?
 
Hey, @torroar, if Teclis was able to create the orbs of Sorcery for the colleges, why didn't he ever give the light college the ability of how to create them? Or, better yet, every few decades make a few more for all of the colleges he helped make?
The latter I imagine because it's not easy, he's busy doing all sorts of shit of his own for the world and his people, and they need to be able to stand as an institution on their own.
 
Last edited:
The Celestial Hurricanum, [...]
3. Storm of Shemtek: Now, the issue of this one is the unpredictability. It rolls each time they try to align it. Really hard to be 100% accurate with it. Anyway, it can do a little rain, or a bit of icy shards, to a straight up tornado, to a powerful lighting strike, or even bring down a meteor onto the target.
Huh, they created a magical Gacha machine.
Neat.

Speaking of the magical altars, what are the requirements for a mage to use them? Apart from being able to use the same winf of course.
 
Nice little all-rounder

Celestial Hurricanum
I love the idea of these against the Dark Elves

The Amethyst Mortisiary
I love this little thing. Who doesn't like Purple Sun?

Just a whole lot of 'fire power'.

Golden Metallus Altar
For some reason I see the rust being launched like a magical mortar.

Arbus Vitaerus of Ghyran
Healbots, ok.
 
On a completely different tangent, most of you seem to think other places in the empire being safer than our home city, well you might not exactly be completely correct on that.
We've built tons of defenses into that place, and we've had witch hunters cleanse out most of our bigger internal foes. (such as the chaos cultists that killed most of Freddy's family before and also other things, heck we've even worked on skaven proofing the damn place)
The trick is that our capital is, for lack of a better term, a normal heavily fortified city.

By contrast, Middenheim is a literal goddamn mountain with a city built into a bowl in the top and the sides built up into layers of overlapping fortifications for thousands of years.

There are a handful of other very strong places in the Empire that, by some natural advantage of terrain, are just inherently much tougher nuts to crack than our capital can realistically be.

But for a 'normal' fortified city, our capital's pretty good, I imagine.
 
Back
Top