She won't be angry unless we refuse her armor when she makes it which we fucking won't... we might pay to get runes placed on it but we'll use it. The fact that we've done this long without proper magic/runed armor is both insane and stupid.
Also because we couldn't AFFORD it, that shit is expensive, and would likely cost more than our entire R&D cycle for the Tanks plus the tanks themselves alone. Magic Armor is rare in setting unless you're a Brettonian knight or a Chaos Whackadoodle.

Yes, and that is insane and if not stupid completely short sighted. No one can say that Ostland and us in particular won't be target number one for the Beastmen. I'd say 2nd after the Emperor but Nuln location would make that a bitch.
Yes we should bankrupt our entire Province for a suit of magical armor that MIGHT stop SOME of the myriad things trying to murderize us. Frederick has been snapping up defensive measures as much as he can, but in setting offense can still blow straight past all the myriad defenses and then we're screwed. We could not IC justify the expense when so many other things would help not just Frederick but the entire Province, far more, with a far far far lesser cost. AS it stands Frederick is better defended against attacks than most, but that really won't stop any of the heavy hitters from whalloping us if they're on their A-game. Which before you say anything Orion was most assuredly NOT.

Furthermore you post shows the same type of Main character conceit that chronically bites SV in the butt. We're not number one target for the Beastmen, I doubt we're even on the top three. Nuln is number one, becuase as long as it and Magnus still stand the empire cannot die, full stop. After that we'd have Middenheim home of another major god who is a pain in the butt for Beastmen, which also is now exposed due to losing 2 armies to a man. Finally we have Reikland which has been a major force for the Empire since it's beginning and a large source of major troops and legendary lords, all of which out strip Osltand in ability to wage war and build up, and has myriad important figures of thier own.

While it's true we are likely to be targeted, we are not a major target for the whole of the Beastmen. The only subfaction we are likely to be a big target for are the Centigors and that is directly due to us killing their progenitor, and his death curse on us drawing them to us for conflict. Even then we're not a major tactical target compared to the aforementioned three who are larger, stronger and form the beating heart of the Empire, one that HAS to be ripped apart for this crusade to win. We're important, but not "target number one," by any metric.
 
Yes, and that is insane and if not stupid completely short sighted. No one can say that Ostland and us in particular won't be target number one for the Beastmen. I'd say 2nd after the Emperor but Nuln location would make that a bitch.
Your argument is built upon the well worn "THE ENEMY APPRACHES!! THE ENEMY APPROACHES!! PREPARE! PREPARE!" Which got us more gun upgrades, more walls, more gun upgrades, an argument to not go beast path searching because the beast path search will be a waste of time when we can build up our army.

I'm trying to say, you are jumping at shadows. Freddy has armor, not the best and greatest, but he has it. We make do with what we got, and Freddy has made that work. Freddy also has some gromril armor so he isn't completely lacking in good armor. I'm not feeling Freddy needs the best armor we can get now, now, now.

The key point though, is that Freddy isn't fighting a war every year.
 
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Also because we couldn't AFFORD it, that shit is expensive, and would likely cost more than our entire R&D cycle for the Tanks plus the tanks themselves alone. Magic Armor is rare in setting unless you're a Brettonian knight or a Chaos Whackadoodle.


Yes we should bankrupt our entire Province for a suit of magical armor that MIGHT stop SOME of the myriad things trying to murderize us. Frederick has been snapping up defensive measures as much as he can, but in setting offense can still blow straight past all the myriad defenses and then we're screwed. We could not IC justify the expense when so many other things would help not just Frederick but the entire Province, far more, with a far far far lesser cost. AS it stands Frederick is better defended against attacks than most, but that really won't stop any of the heavy hitters from whalloping us if they're on their A-game. Which before you say anything Orion was most assuredly NOT.

Furthermore you post shows the same type of Main character conceit that chronically bites SV in the butt. We're not number one target for the Beastmen, I doubt we're even on the top three. Nuln is number one, becuase as long as it and Magnus still stand the empire cannot die, full stop. After that we'd have Middenheim home of another major god who is a pain in the butt for Beastmen, which also is now exposed due to losing 2 armies to a man. Finally we have Reikland which has been a major force for the Empire since it's beginning and a large source of major troops and legendary lords, all of which out strip Osltand in ability to wage war and build up, and has myriad important figures of thier own.

While it's true we are likely to be targeted, we are not a major target for the whole of the Beastmen. The only subfaction we are likely to be a big target for are the Centigors and that is directly due to us killing their progenitor, and his death curse on us drawing them to us for conflict. Even then we're not a major tactical target compared to the aforementioned three who are larger, stronger and form the beating heart of the Empire, one that HAS to be ripped apart for this crusade to win. We're important, but not "target number one," by any metric.

considering our connections/debts I'm pretty sure we can afford it. Has Torroar given us a quote that I haven't seen yet?

Freddy also has some gromril armor so he isn`t completely lacking in good armor. I`m not feeling Freddy needs the best armor we can get now, now, now.

No he really doesn't he is still wearing steel plate. I WISH he at least had Gromril.
 
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No he really doesn't he is still wearing steel plate. I WISH he at least had Gromril.
Gromril and dragonbone.

Freddy`s wargear from the frontpage.
Wargear: Brain Wounder (Runefang of Ostland), Oskana the Gryphon (BD: 2325), The Light of Summer (Wood Elf Healing Artifact), Bokdrungni (Dwarf Runic Fist), Full Plate Armor

Bokdrungni – Fist of Defiance
[Artifact Gauntlet/Hornfist Hybrid]
Any Runesmith truly worthy of their craft could spend years upon a single commission, for even the most common of runes requires care and attention that would befuddle a flighty elf and be beyond an umgi's best efforts. A single rune is still a considerable undertaking, requiring ritual and forethought, often utilizing rare materials as well. In the depths of Karak Ungor, out of respect for a surprisingly scrappy umgi, Kragg the Grim replaced a ruined and flimsy thing of umgi design based upon an ogri device. Also to prove that he could make something better even if it was new. As such, over the course of a bare handful of months was a new steelfist devised, yet to the shock of many for more than one reason, it was destroyed only a short time later. Destroying such a thing, a gift, a creation of Kragg the Grim, eldest living Runelord in all of the Karaz Ankor, could easily be reason enough for a generational grudge to the death! Save, however, in how and why it was destroyed. Even the most rudimentary apprentice knows that before the final steps have been taken, even the most magnificent piece of runework might be irreparably damaged should something go wrong before it can reach fruition. So it was with the False Throne of Power, a blasphemous creation by the Dawi-Zharr intended to replace the true creation of the Ancestor Gods so that all true dawi might wither away entirely. As sure as a blade pointed at the heart of the High King threatens his life, so too was the False Throne of Power a poisoned dagger prepared to plunge into the heart of the Karaz Ankor itself. A potentially ruinous creation, shattered in tandem with the steelfist, a reckless, immediate, and faultless act performed without hesitation by one Frederick von Hohenzollern. A man who had already proven himself by personally saving the life of the High King, preserving the Dammaz Kron from the stomach acids of a colossal squig, and even momentarily wielding the Axe of Grimnir.

Then came the rest of Karak Ungor, in all its misery and all its glory. For his acts, his sacrifices, his deeds, a great and powerful debt was owed. And so Kragg the Grim set to work. Within the sacred ruins of Thunder Mountain, surrounded by the sheer history and remnants of power woven into the bedrock itself where the Anvils of Doom were forged in ages past, it was forged. A mixture of gromril and dragon bone sourced from Drelgithrex, the elder magma dragon which was slain whilst invading Karag Dron long ago which had soaked in the heat of the volcano and the magic of shattered anvils and the tools once used to craft them. Alone save for a handful of assistants, the heat still burning in the depths of Thunder Mountain, upon a newly forged Anvil of Doom crafted from the remains of destroyed Anvils within the excavated workshops, came this gauntlet. Finely articulated such that despite the weight of gromril and dragon bone it is as if wearing nothing at all. It is not an Ironfist, nor is it the Hornfist or Steelfist as the more refined umgi variant is known. It is Drungigrom, the Fist of Defiance.


  • Master Rune of Skella Valayadottir: The long, painful battles of the War of Vengeance engendered a great hatred of magic within Skella's heart, for too many times had it struck down good dawi at the hands of the Asur. Thus did she strike this rune for the first time, a vengeful thing indeed based upon the Master Rune of Balance and Master Rune of Spite, that it might take the magic of the enemy within itself and release it again at the behest of its new master. (6+ Chance To Absorb Incoming Enemy Spells, Cleanse, And Release As Wielder-Controlled Blast)
  • Rune of Warding: This rune grows bright when harm is directed towards its charge, causing swiftness of movement to block, to dodge, and on occasion simply cause the attack to fail entirely. (+6 Ward Save)
  • Rune of Striking: Uncanny precision flows forth from this rune, channeled into and aiding in its wielder's attacks against their enemies. Skill itself has been amplified by the carefully struck Rune. (+5 To Personal Attack Rolls, i.e. 50+5(Rune of Striking)=55)
 
@lancelot
Editing in a Reply will alert the one you reply to, you don't need to double post.

What about puresteel like Oskana?

That isn't a price quote from torroar it's another assumption. I'm pretty sure we can get some very high end armor from the Dawi at a discount.

No as far as the first post says it's it's just normal steel plate armor, which might as well be paper mache to the kind of enemies he fights.
 
Uh, that's for his arm. What you're quoting explicitly said he has Full Plate Armor.
Where is there a problem?

Are you saying Freddy doesn't wear the light of summer in battle because he has full plate armor?

I'm referring to Kragg's gromril and dragonbone gift, which is listed on the wargear Freddy has listed, so assume he has it equipped in a fight.
 
Name a major battle/fight the man has been in and the armor lasted till the end. Most of the time we're luck if it lasts half the fight.
And that probably helps a lot more than nothing.
Where is there a problem?

Are you saying Freddy doesn't wear the light of summer in battle because he has full plate armor?

I'm referring to Kragg's gromril and dragonbone gift, which is listed on the wargear Freddy has listed, so assume he has it equipped in a fight.
I'm saying that no, he does not have Gromril armor. One arm does not Gromril armor make.
 
Where is there a problem?

Are you saying Freddy doesn't wear the light of summer in battle because he has full plate armor?

I'm referring to Kragg's gromril and dragonbone gift, which is listed on the wargear Freddy has listed, so assume he has it equipped in a fight.

it's a shield not a replacement for the useless steel full plate. I'm not sure where the confusion is here one is not the other.
 
considering our connections/debts I'm pretty sure we can afford it. Has Torroar given us a quote that I haven't seen yet?
Anything less than Runic plate, which is made of Gromril and Ludicrously expensive is not going to stand up to Freddie being Freddie. You saw how long a simple Combat Arm took, armor would take decades longer. Frankly Freddie would be long dead by then.

@lancelot
Editing in a Reply will alert the one you reply to, you don't need to double post.

What about puresteel like Oskana?
Torraor did say the only reason we got Oskana's armor in a turn instead of decades was because of how little importance it was to the Dwarves comparatively. The difference between "i must make armor for a hero of my people to whom i owe a great debt." and "Making armor for that guy's flying steed thing" is fairly vast in the dwarven mind. We might get that more quickly, but i doubt it, and it'd still be fairly expensive. Reminder that her breastplate, not a full suit, was still two and half time more expensive than a Tank was, and we had a great debt owed to us by the runesmith responsible, which means we likely paid a fraction of the actual cost because of it. It still took a full year to make as well.

Between the actual cost, the dwarven need for perfection delaying production times, and the like i don't see us getting it any time soon and it'll likely cost far far more as it's for a hero rather than some murder bird thing.
 
And that probably helps a lot more than nothing.

How about instead of the pointless arguing. We get a hard number on armor prices from Torroar?

Anything less than Runic plate, which is made of Gromril and Ludicrously expensive is not going to stand up to Freddie being Freddie. You saw how long a simple Combat Arm took, armor would take decades longer. Frankly Freddie would be long dead by then.

That is an assumption where are your numbers?

Also simple 'combat arm' are you high? That was a one of a kind piece using the bones of the dragon that broke the volcano that they'd used to build the Anvils of Doom, made in said volcano. It's likely the closest a Dawi hasn't gotten to making something on the level of the Runefangs.

You really don't know what your talking about here.

Anyways before this goes any further can we all agree to wait for Torroar to give us an idea on price instead of making guesses?
 
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Please stop double posting @lancelot

I'm not inclined towards an easy agreement with your dismissal of my point. Please stop being so abrasive.
Asking Lance to stop being abrasive is like asking the wind to stop blowing, it's just how he is.

Anyway on the Armor front, I don't think Marlin meant we had a full set if Gromril armor because of our sick arm, I think he meant that we had at least a piece of it.
 
So should we consider getting better armor for Fred? I know Alex is working on hers but having a stronger suit of armor would be helpful until she completes it.
 
That is an assumption where are your numbers?

Also simple 'combat arm' are you high? That was a one of a kind piece using the bones of the dragon that broke the volcano that they'd used to build the Anvils of Doom, made in said volcano. It's likely the closest a Dawi hasn't gotten to making something on the level of the Runefangs.

You really don't know what your talking about here.

Anyways before this goes any further can we all agree to wait for Torroar to give us an idea on price instead of making guesses?
Oskana's Armor which was made with inferior materials, and in general as per word of Torraor here
The breastplate is basically going to be the same as the big honking one that Deathclaw has, at least in shape/size. Look up images for what I mean. It's not all covering by any sense, but as it says in the option, a bit is more than none. It's highly likely that it's not going to be some fancy uberwork or anything like that, but there's nothing that says it can't have a single rune engraved on it. A Master Rune of Adamant seems appropriate for its purpose. Going to go edit the option now.

Funnily enough, it's much easier for Oskana than for Frederick, because a dwarf artisan would insist that it all has to be perfectly fitted to Frederick and the runes and artwork has to be perfect too.

Oskana just needs a big hunk of metal that happens to conform to her body shape, heh. Obviously it needs to be perfect too, but there's a difference in detail, yeah?

Additionally, yeah, Frederick's got the idea in his head of Alexandra's Ledstali work that she's been slaving over. Last was shown that she'd managed to produce it properly, but shaping was being difficult, though since that time she's improved her powers and intensified her worship of the Widow as well as gaining access to the amplifier that is Shoika's Sapphire. Well, when Kattarin lets her use it.

Where the base item was only 500 cost as Freddie made it himself to a whopping 2500 for Dwarven made with runes. Frederick's armor would cost far more and given it took something akin to 12 years to make Bokdrungi, which is only something akin to a fifth of what Full plate would need. So assuming roughly the same timescale it'd take something like 50 years to get us a full suit. That's not even getting into cost where they'd be using Gromril and better quality materials than they did on Oskana's armor which still cost roughly two tanks worth of gold at a discount.

Our tanks last turn cost 1k gold to make
Her armor was 2.5k gold for something relatively cheap and low effort by dwarven standards.
 
One arm does not Gromril armor make? Bokdrungni seemed to be a great help under Triton's Fury, because it was gromril+dragonbone, and had runes.

Does Freddy have gromril to protect him in battle or not?
Marlin. You are coming across as patronizing and/or obtuse. You know what I mean. Full-body coverage, or close to it, is what is generally meant by "armor"
 
Vapor Tank Production: Vapor Tanks are, currently, the highest pinnacle of technology that your engineers are capable of. Specifically, Master Engineers and crews of Senior Engineers. Their creation is a labor-intensive process, and for good reason. The production of each part must be carefully done, and the installing and connecting of them more so. Testing the actual machine during assembly in stages is important, because the fact of the matter is that if the vapor engine, or its valves and siphons rupturing, injury or death of the crew is guaranteed. Such a thing could be extremely problematic, for obvious reasons, especially because the crew is made up of such highly educated individuals that it took years to produce. Nevertheless, should the funds be allocated, and the personnel dedicated to the project, another vapor tank may be unleashed upon the world. Cost: 1,000. Time: 1 Year. Reward: 1 Additional Vapor Tank. Upkeep Set At -150 Gold Crowns Per Year, Per Vapor Tank.

Armoring Oskana: Historically, only particularly wealthy and privileged folk could manage to secure a gryphon, let alone house them, feed them, and train them for war. There is, of course, a step further than that. Armoring them. Now, ordinary gryphons are quite hardy creatures indeed, they have to be considering that often the only thing a gryphon needs to worry about fighting is another gryphon, their beaks and claws capable of rending stone, plate armor, and flesh with dangerously close levels of effort. But, so too have gryphons fallen. As such, there are plenty of artworks and notes in the history books about armoring such beasts, though of course one must also take into consideration that too much weight makes them unable to fly. A large breastplate, however, can protect that precious area where the heart and lungs begin from frontal assaults, and a form of molded helm is not remiss either to protect their head. Every scrap of defensibility is important, after all, as any soldier will tell you. You have the capacity and the surety that you could try and request something of such a make from the dwarfs, to improve Oskana's chances on the battlefield. It will be costly, but quality almost always is. Cost: 2,500. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Runic Breastplate For Oskana.

The following has been added as a personal action:

Armoring Oskana: Historically, only particularly wealthy and privileged folk could manage to secure a gryphon, let alone house them, feed them, and train them for war. There is, of course, a step further than that. Armoring them. Now, ordinary gryphons are quite hardy creatures indeed, they have to be considering that often the only thing a gryphon needs to worry about fighting is another gryphon, their beaks and claws capable of rending stone, plate armor, and flesh with dangerously close levels of effort. But, so too have gryphons fallen. As such, there are plenty of artworks and notes in the history books about armoring such beasts, though of course one must also take into consideration that too much weight makes them unable to fly. A large breastplate, however, can protect that precious area where the heart and lungs begin from frontal assaults, and a form of molded helm is not remiss either to protect their head. Every scrap of defensibility is important, after all, as any soldier will tell you. Cost: 500. Time: 1 Year. Reward: Frederick-forged Gryphon Armor for Oskana.


Some Numbers for @lancelot in addition we went from turn 24 to turn 36 before we got Bokdrungi. These might not be exact but we do get a decent Ballpark of how long crafting time is and how expensive it is even with discounts.
 
for those of you worrying about the cost we just spent 2,500 for armoring OSKANA and she is a huge griffin like we can afford that easy and it also means our regulars steel plate doesn't have to be replaced literally every battle
Her armor was some that was barely an effort according to Torroar, anything made for Frederick would require far more effort, far better materials, and far more artisianal work and credit. Look at quotes above.
 
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