While I think some of the posters are overreacting, I agree that we should start asking Alex to consider coming back home.

She is certain that she is doing important work in Kislev, but she gave much of herself in service to it, and she may be suffering from the sunk costs syndrom.

"Uplifting" Kislev (hell, uplifting any nation for that matter) is a lifetime's, no, wait, several lifetimes' amount of work and woe, and that is not Alexandra's burden to bear, but Romanov's.
Actually despite Kattarin being a collosal bitch about things and her definitely could have done things better she has actually made a ton of improvements to Kislev in a short amount of time thanks to her. Alex is also helping her make sure that she doesn't get too bad. Not to mention that people don't have have seemed to consider that she after all that time in Kislev has actually grown attached to the place especially since it's one of the places her ancestors come from and another place she calls home like how Natasha despite not being born in Ostland considers it home.
Yeah, we need some distance, and as we have seen before Alexandria is suffering under Kattarin's demands. We are her father, she will come home when ordered to
I find this attitude disgusting. Alexandria may be our daughter but she is an adult who can make her own decisions. Forcing her to act against her will is just insulting on so many levels. Seriously, if say we had a father who tried to pull that same crap on us people would have definitely voted to tell him to fuck off for trying to control us and not respecting us.
 
I find this attitude disgusting. Alexandria may be our daughter but she is an adult who can make her own decisions. Forcing her to act against her will is just insulting on so many levels. Seriously, if say we had a father who tried to pull that same crap on us people would have definitely voted to tell him to fuck off for trying to control us and not respecting us.

Eh, it's a different world and has different values. We're her father and liege so we have every right to order her back if we feel it is necessary. Grown woman or not, rejecting a direct order from your liege is akin to betrayal.
 
I don't we should order Alex back as her father, but order her back as her liege as a form of protest to the psycho's destruction of the temples.
 
Things are reaching a critical juncture in Kislev. No point in trying to call Alexandra back now, when we're more likely to end up visiting ourselves soon. Either to interfere in the civil war or help against the next Chaos offensive, probably both because the morons up there see no reason to stop their crap even when every single sign points to incoming major Chaos bullshit.
 
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Actually despite Kattarin being a collosal bitch about things and her definitely could have done things better she has actually made a ton of improvements to Kislev in a short amount of time thanks to her. Alex is also helping her make sure that she doesn't get too bad. Not to mention that people don't have have seemed to consider that she after all that time in Kislev has actually grown attached to the place especially since it's one of the places her ancestors come from and another place she calls home like how Natasha despite not being born in Ostland considers it home.

I find this attitude disgusting. Alexandria may be our daughter but she is an adult who can make her own decisions. Forcing her to act against her will is just insulting on so many levels. Seriously, if say we had a father who tried to pull that same crap on us people would have definitely voted to tell him to fuck off for trying to control us and not respecting us.
And I find your attitude and absolute lies disgusting. Alex isn't as attached to Kislev as you're claiming, in fact it has mentally scared her and the only reason she's still there is because she hasn't finished her obsession in creating that Ice Weaponry yet. A few pieces can be made, but she hasn't found a way to mass produce it as she wanted to.

Look at last time we saw and spoke to Alex and look at her depression, fear and paranoia, you call my attitude disgusting, but when a family member is falling in with a very bad crowd, destroying themselves emotionally all over something they're obsessed or adicted to, yes I am saying her compulsion is reminiscent of addiction, it is the job of the family to get them away from such influences and wean them off.

Come out with excuses of her loving Kislev, which is not true, but frankly when it's gotten this far you have to stage an intervention, and calling such an intervention disgusting disgusts me.
 
Can we not? As I said she is a grown woman and can make her own choices. It's also really goddamn insulting. I mean permanently? As in she can never leave Ostland? The hell?
Seriously? When I said bring her home Permanently I meant from Kislev. if Alexandria wants to travel the empire or beyond it to other places other than Kislev which I have problems with due to them scarring her as the post above your points out than that's fine. Its her decision but enough is enough.
 
We're her father and liege so we have every right to order her back if we feel it is necessary.
As far as I understand it, a liege is soemone who grants a vassal some benefit, typically a fief, and in return the vassal owns him fealty. Why would Freddie be Alexandra's liege?

Alex isn't as attached to Kislev as you're claiming, in fact it has mentally scared her and the only reason she's still there is because she hasn't finished her obsession in creating that Ice Weaponry yet.
Alex has the trait Scholar of the Ancient Widow, which shows at least some attachement to Kislev. And as for the mental scarring, most people in Freddie's family are mentally scarrred.
 
I mean permanently? As in she can never leave Ostland? The hell?

Are you intentionally misreading his comment? He's clearly talking about it not being a temporary return like last time.

As I said she is a grown woman and can make her own choices.

We're her Count and thus we can order her regardless of her age. Different world different values.

Why would Freddie be Alexandra's liege?

She is a citizen of Ostland. Bout all there is to it.

Alex has the trait Scholar of the Ancient Widow, which shows at least some attachement to Kislev. And as for the mental scarring, most people in Freddie's family are mentally scarrred.

No. That means she studied the God that is related to her power extensively.
 
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Can we not? As I said she is a grown woman and can make her own choices. It's also really goddamn insulting. I mean permanently? As in she can never leave Ostland? The hell?

And we are her liege and it is her duty to obey us just like it is with all of our other subordinates. If Frederick, the Elector-Count of Ostland, decide it is in Ostland's best interests to order have our Kislev ambassador/assistant to the Tsarina or whatever position that we have sent Alex to Kislev in to come back home to Ostland, then that is our right and duty as the Elector-Count of Ostland. Why should Alex get special treatment just because she happens to be Fredie's daughter?

We're her Count and thus we can order her regardless of her age. Different world different values.

I'm pretty sure that is a modern thing as well. Adults working for governments still have to obey their superiors even if they are of age.
 
Can we not? As I said she is a grown woman and can make her own choices. It's also really goddamn insulting. I mean permanently? As in she can never leave Ostland? The hell?
Wow you are definitely misrepresenting all of their arguments here. They never said she couldn't leave Ostland, at any point, hell home could very easily mean the South. But you tried to frame it in the worst way possible because so far you've been extremely insulting an manipulative.

You call others disgusting and make stuff up to make them sound horrid, you should step away from the debate because you are only going to escalate this further as you act this way.
 
We can bring her home after the big kerfluffle. Trying to do it before that happens would be a bit like trying to keep Frederick off the field during the same kerfluffle: it just isn't going to happen. The kids are a lot like their parents, they are not going to miss on a big fight against Chaos.
 
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@torroar is that flavour text about the greatship just flavour or is that progress towards getting people to believe it to be a viable form of ship to use?
 
Alex has the trait Scholar of the Ancient Widow, which shows at least some attachement to Kislev. And as for the mental scarring, most people in Freddie's family are mentally scarrred
And her mental scarring is directly tied to Kislev, she has not been able to relax there and she couldn't even smile for a while or trust her own family for a while when she came back, not only that she had to learn from the Ice Mages and study them to make the ice weapons. Doesn't mean she's attached to Kislev only that she studied them to help make her obsession a reality
 
I'm pretty sure that is a modern thing as well. Adults working for governments still have to obey their superiors even if they are of age.

When I say different world different values I am pointing to the argument of "she's a grown woman". It's just not a very compelling argument to me.

Also I edited my last post to reply to gingganz.
 
And I find your attitude and absolute lies disgusting. Alex isn't as attached to Kislev as you're claiming, in fact it has mentally scared her and the only reason she's still there is because she hasn't finished her obsession in creating that Ice Weaponry yet. A few pieces can be made, but she hasn't found a way to mass produce it as she wanted to.

Look at last time we saw and spoke to Alex and look at her depression, fear and paranoia, you call my attitude disgusting, but when a family member is falling in with a very bad crowd, destroying themselves emotionally all over something they're obsessed or adicted to, yes I am saying her compulsion is reminiscent of addiction, it is the job of the family to get them away from such influences and wean them off.

Come out with excuses of her loving Kislev, which is not true, but frankly when it's gotten this far you have to stage an intervention, and calling such an intervention disgusting disgusts me.

Lies? Seems funny considernig that you claim that the only reason she is stayng is for the ice weaponry despite her mentioned that she also wants to turn Kislev into a better bulwark against chaosn and IIRC she outright mentions that she does have other reasons for staying. And no don't pull that strawmanning nonsense. I outright pointed out that it would be extremely weird that she would have absolutely no attachment to a place she has spent literally around- I think half her life in? Don't remember the exact number she has been there but she has been there a while. Considering all the quests where players have grown attached to places they have only been in for a few months that kind of thing is why I'm baffled that people are saying that there is no possibility of her being attached to the place.

Though I think that a major reason for this is the whole 'protaganist centered morality' thing that SB and SV are especially guilty of where people forget that other characters in-universe have their own agency and their attachments seperate from the players. That and SBs and SVs occasional control freak habits with one good example being a quest where a 'split personality' of the main character kept control for just around 30 extra seconds than she was supposed to to give the players advice and a lot of players ended up losing their shit and even a character in-universe practically told them they were overreacting. Another is Embers quest where players keep talking about bringing our daugher permanently home despite said daugther being literally hundreds of years old, her having an important career in the navy where she has an extremely high position and us living on one of the most dangerous deathworlds on the planet.

So yeah, SB and SV players can be extremely bias.

Seriously? When I said bring her home Permanently I meant from Kislev. if Alexandria wants to travel the empire or beyond it to other places other than Kislev which I have problems with due to them scarring her as the post above your points out than that's fine. Its her decision but enough is enough.

Well alright, I apoligize since I read/took that wrong.
 
She is a citizen of Ostland. Bout all there is to it.
Can Freddie really just order around anyone born in Ostland? Does this mean that the Elder of the Moot could just tell the Halflings living in Ostland to come home and if they don't comply they are traitors? (Well, at least those born in the Moot.)

Also, Alexandra is, as far as I know, not our ambassador to Kislev. She is Kattarin's Royal Aide. So if anyone who gets to order her around it is Kattarin.
 
Also, Alexandra is, as far as I know, not our ambassador to Kislev. She is Kattarin's Royal Aide. So if anyone who gets to order her around it is Kattarin.

I'm pretty sure she is the Royal Aide sent by Ostland and is there at the behalf of Ostland. So while she works for Kattarin, she does so at the behalf of the the Ostlander government due to our close relationship. It is fully within our rights to withdraw the Royal Aide we sent to Kislev if we deem it necessary as Elector-Count of Ostland.

Basically, she wasn't hired by Kattarin, but was sent by us to help our friend and ally Kattarin.
 
Considering all the quests where players have grown attached to places they have only been in for a few months that kind of thing is why I'm baffled that people are saying that there is no possibility of her being attached to the place.

Of course she's going to be attached, it's called stockholm syndrome :V

So yeah, SB and SV players can be extremely bias.

:eyebrow: Well yeah. That's why people want to order her out of Kislev. They desperately want to keep Alexandra safe.

Can Freddie really just order around anyone born in Ostland? Does this mean that the Elder of the Moot could just tell the Halflings living in Ostland to come home and if they don't comply they are traitors? (Well, at least those born in the Moot.)

Pretty sure the halflings that came to Ostland were under an agreement that they were to become citizens of Ostland. Alexandra has no such agreement with Kislev nor do we for that matter.

Pledge your secret support to Tzarina Romanov. In return, she – the most powerful Ice Mage alive who is not an Ice Hag - will personally tutor your daughter Alexandra in Ice Magic and lend her expert power, control, and knowledge to the Ledstali Project. Alexandra would be required to stay in Kislev for this, however, though with Kattarin and her elite Kreml Guard standing to protect her, she might be better protected even than in Wulfenburg Castle. In return, when she…'breaks' the Merchant Princes of Erengrad, she will buy guns and cannons from you at the actual normal market price which would greatly increase your income. Also, she would like to make use of your channels to speak to the Magic Colleges to purchase the usage of the Jade Wizards for the farms of Kislev. At the same time, you would be allying yourself with a woman who is known to be using slave labor to build her Widow's Cradle, and who is fully willing to exterminate those who oppose her in Kislev. Still, a treaty of permanent defense and aid between Kislev and the Empire would be…pretty good. Should Kattarin ever go….'evil', for lack of a better word, however, you would be rather up a certain creek.

The exact agreement. I'm not aware of any further agreements.
 
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She's a grown woman and a skilled Ice Mage, one with, if memory serves, the potential to even be more powerful than Katarina. She can take care of herself. Us trying to force her to come back will, at minimum, start a fight with her. She'd resist it heavily. She might just ignore us. And, frankly, I feel like pulling her out now might just lead to a civil war in the future; one that could very well draw us in and take quite a bit of casualties to stop.
 
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