Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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I was wondering, do we want to get involved with the politics of Hochland at all? Maybe approach both sides and see about setting up trade deeper deals or something with province as a whole?

Our influence and support could be the thing that tips the scales for one side or the other after all, and maybe under central leadership problems in province could actually start being fixed. Of course not sure how wise that is basically going around the Elector Count's back even if he has no desire to rule himself it seems since it word got out what we are doing could make use look worse in front of other counts.

Still, setting up better trade deals might be possible in general without any backlash since technically Hochland has less beef with us than Talabecland does currently and I remember way back when trade would have been more profitable through the former than the latter. Thoughts?
 
Massgamer said:
I was wondering, do we want to get involved with the politics of Hochland at all? Maybe approach both sides and see about setting up trade deeper deals or something with province as a whole?

Our influence and support could be the thing that tips the scales for one side or the other after all, and maybe under central leadership problems in province could actually start being fixed. Of course not sure how wise that is basically going around the Elector Count's back even if he has no desire to rule himself it seems since it word got out what we are doing could make use look worse in front of other counts.

Still, setting up better trade deals might be possible in general without any backlash since technically Hochland has less beef with us than Talabecland does currently and I remember way back when trade would have been more profitable through the former than the latter. Thoughts?
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Let's not do much by way of risky intrigue actions until after we've done the fancy training camp we unlocked by repeated failures. Once that happens, our staff will be more qualified for stuff like that, and we can see what kind of success chance it has, and can from there figure out if it'd be worth it or not.
 
jjffjhjf said:
Let's not do much by way of risky intrigue actions until after we've done the fancy training camp we unlocked by repeated failures. Once that happens, our staff will be more qualified for stuff like that, and we can see what kind of success chance it has, and can from there figure out if it'd be worth it or not.
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Honestly I think our best bet is to either get the opinions of our closest friends from the trident or submit our findings to magnus. Hes prob aware of it already of course, but a general " hey , I know I've done some dumb things in the past, and obs wouldnt want to mess up any plans you had , but I'm concerned that the province right next to mine might descend onto civil war / let green skins and beast men go rampant. What do?
 
Mr.rodent said:
Honestly I think our best bet is to either get the opinions of our closest friends from the trident or submit our findings to magnus. Hes prob aware of it already of course, but a general " hey , I know I've done some dumb things in the past, and obs wouldnt want to mess up any plans you had , but I'm concerned that the province right next to mine might descend onto civil war / let green skins and beast men go rampant. What do?
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That does seem like a quite reasonable action to take. its entirely possible the other members of the Trident have more info than we do about it, (we don't really know what kind of spy-networks they have do we?) and for sure Magnus is generally way more informed about things. Talking to him about it would also work to further cement his authority and our respect of it. Which since its Magnus, is rather a good thing.
 
Massgamer said:
I was wondering, do we want to get involved with the politics of Hochland at all? Maybe approach both sides and see about setting up trade deeper deals or something with province as a whole?

Our influence and support could be the thing that tips the scales for one side or the other after all, and maybe under central leadership problems in province could actually start being fixed. Of course not sure how wise that is basically going around the Elector Count's back even if he has no desire to rule himself it seems since it word got out what we are doing could make use look worse in front of other counts.

Still, setting up better trade deals might be possible in general without any backlash since technically Hochland has less beef with us than Talabecland does currently and I remember way back when trade would have been more profitable through the former than the latter. Thoughts?
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Proably need to reform the intel agency and do some other stuff before we do anything more outside of the province. We have had very little luck working in the shadows outside of a few circles and hunts.
 
Mr.rodent said:
Honestly I think our best bet is to either get the opinions of our closest friends from the trident or submit our findings to magnus. Hes prob aware of it already of course, but a general " hey , I know I've done some dumb things in the past, and obs wouldnt want to mess up any plans you had , but I'm concerned that the province right next to mine might descend onto civil war / let green skins and beast men go rampant. What do?
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Bad idea.

The only thing good about your suggestion is to delay things, giving more time for things to occur, until someone has to do something.

Running to Magnus, or second opinions, every time a player wants to run from reality is a waste of time. Proven by the time in the last elector's meet where Freddy ran in tears begging for Magnus's opinion (a little bit of an exaggeration, admittingly), only to interpret said opinion to the best benefit of the players, which made gaining Magnus's opinion pointless.

Magnus has an empire to run, Hochland isn't doing anything wrong, simply put, there is no reason beyond 'I give up, Magnus I beg you, please, please, know Hochland terrifys me.'

We don't know the turn options yet. Maybe, here is a thought, Freddy can choose to visit the count of Hochland directly in turn 31?

Can someone give a reason that cannot be summed up as 'Magnus, solve my fears for me, be my knight in a storm, and I your princess in distress.', to not touch Hochland?

We would gain a road to try and improve relations with Hochland, if we interfere. We already left Hochland alone, only to find we shouldn't have left Hochland alone for so long. I can't see a reason to avoid trying to deal with Hochland through our PC Freddy, beyond 'let us only help the trident, and if we have to, the Empire :mad:. Magnus fixes everything, send him.'. Freddy would be IC of trying to grow closer with an Imperial province because that is part of his characterization that isn't really accepted by us players outside of us feeling safe and secure. I'd love to see actions that represent that characterization beyond things with the trident, or only in Imperial military concerns at other times that truly make the rumor mill, unless something goes wrong in Ostland.

That's my opinion at least. We don't know what options in turn 31 are available to handle Hochland. More Intrigue missions? Diplomacy routes? Personal actions? Stewardship actions? We already have started messing with Hochland through our Intrigue actions. If we hand the problem to Magnus, Freddy shows how little he cares about Hochland, which could be taken to an extreme issue of 'Freddy only cares about the safety of Ostland'due to Hochland's secrecy about their internal strife. This also shows emperor Magnus Freddy will not try and help Hochland beyond telling Magnus Freddy wants the emperor to watch Hochland at the potential detriment of the empire (if Freddy handles Hochland, Magnus won't need to spend any resources on Hochland, and can divert resources to protect the Empire. But apparently we expect Magnus to deal with Hochland immediately, instead of anywhere that is more valuable than a currently functional Hochland).
 
DocMatoi said:
the only felix i know of in warhammer is the one who hangs out with Gotrek Gurnisson, and they dont show up til the time of karl franz.
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EyeOfSauron said:
I don't any Felix the Black either, although given his title he sounds like a bad guy.
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Felix the Black the Roadwarden. The guy who lived at the end of the Age of Three Emperors and was basically a hero of the people who patrolled the roads of the Empire hunting down bandits and beastmen. Had a brace of pistols given to him by the lords of Karaz-a-Karak. He is credited with hunting down dozens of infamous bandits and stopping the herd of Ungeror Three Horn.

Depending on the source at the start of this quest he somewhere in the 40-80 range of age. So I was asking @torroar if the guy is/was in this quest as one of the unseen characters since the start of it.
 
Dmol8 said:
Uh Torroar is Felix the Black still around at this point? I mean he'd be retired considering that he was around 40-50 years old at the start of the quest at best and 70-80 at worst, but is he still around?
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Found him he was mentioned in the whfb rpg book shades of the empire:

One such example is the man known as "Felix the Black." This rakish Roadwarden dressed in the finest black clothing and carried a brace of pistols that were a gift from the Dwarf Lords of Karaz-a-Karak. According to legend, Felix the Black and has ebon horse could move a hundred miles each night and his accuracy was such that he could, from a hundred yards away, shoot the buckles off of a bandit's belt, causing his pants to fall to his feet. He singlehandedly captured dozens of notorious brigands, killed the foul Beastman known as Ungeror Three Horn and his massive herd, and saved nearly a hundred young maidens from certain doom. Despite the obvious exaggerations, Felix the Black did exist, nearly two hundred and fifty years ago, and was responsible for many heroic deeds. Most Roadwardens love the stories of this legendary figure and add their own embellishments when in their cups. Most strive to be spoken of in such high regard in the years to come.
 
Again, considering I wasn't aware of his existence, no, I hadn't been using him in the background of the quest. Sure, we can say he existed, but he's likely retired by this point. Considering that the entry for him notes that there were 'obvious exaggerations' with roadwardens adding embellishments over the years...eh. Sure, he's around. Probably has dwarf-made pistols, but not actually full gifts from the lords of the Everpeak. He probably does dress in fine black.
 
Marlin said:
Can someone give a reason that cannot be summed up as 'Magnus, solve my fears for me, be my knight in a storm, and I your princess in distress.', to not touch Hochland?
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1. Hochland's Count is a bitch to track down and have a chat with.
2. IC Freddy believes(or believed) that historic attempts by Ostland to work with the Ludenhofs have always ended with Hochland not contributing their fair share of the labour while still demanding the full sum of rewards.
3. Marienburg's current leading bloc hates our guts and is plotting against us. They may be considered a higher priority.
4. Gunthar made a spiel about clear borders and territorial integrity to which Freddy responded by claiming he had no territorial ambitions. Interventionism in a Northern province like Hochland might annoy the Graf of Middenland.
4.1 Gunthar doesn't like us while Hans doesn't care. Giving Freddy a clearer picture on what makes Gunthar tick is probably better for decreasing the amount of Electoral dick-measuring(and reducing Magnus' Headache) than investigating the quiet count who keeps to himself would.
4.1.1 Caveat: at least until Hochland gets overrun or it devolves into a civil war. In the former's case, this might result in some Manly Bonding amidst the fighting and cause Freddy and Gunthar to develop some kind of mutual understanding. In the latter case, I have no interest in a proxy war.
5. Between the Nassau trade routes through Talabecland, the revival of the Great Northern Road and the new passes through the Middle Mountains giving us a direct connection to Middenland, Hochland's relevance as a province to route trade through has declined.

Most of this boils down to Hochland's relative lack of relevance .

Just throwing some ideas out there.
 
Eh, just consult with the Trident.
We don't know anything that we should escalate to Emperor. Magnus is a busy man and what we have here is 90% OOC paranoia.

Because IC everything says he's not doing anything harmful to the Empire or his Province. Or much of anything at all.
 
yeah

check with friend first and then wait

if something that really suspicious pop up, then go to Magnus
 
I know this is going to sound crazy, BUT why not take our concerns to Gunthar.

1. He is Magnus's brother, and since Magnus is so busy... make it sound like something not big enough to take to Magnus but still a concern.
2. He shares a border with Hochland. if things go to shit in Hochland, both of us are going to be the ones cleaning it up.
3. He championed Hochland's rights to their portion of the middle mountains. If things go to shit, Gunthar loses face.
4. It shows him that despite not liking him, we respect him enough to come to him with a problem that effects us both before we go crying to Magnus.
5. We suspect something is brewing in the north, there is a WAGHH! in the south, something is stirring in the forests, and the dark elves are quiet which means they are planning something. Nipping any problem in Hochland in the bud before it becomes a problem when everything else kicks off might help a little.

on the otherside Ostermark is on the other side of us from Hochland, and Nordland has made it clear they want no part of our squabbles in the south.
 
REAPER35 said:
I know this is going to sound crazy, BUT why not take our concerns to Gunthar.

1. He is Magnus's brother, and since Magnus is so busy... make it sound like something not big enough to take to Magnus but still a concern.
2. He shares a border with Hochland. if things go to shit in Hochland, both of us are going to be the ones cleaning it up.
3. He championed Hochland's rights to their portion of the middle mountains. If things go to shit, Gunthar loses face.
4. It shows him that despite not liking him, we respect him enough to come to him with a problem that effects us both before we go crying to Magnus.
5. We suspect something is brewing in the north, there is a WAGHH! in the south, something is stirring in the forests, and the dark elves are quiet which means they are planning something. Nipping any problem in Hochland in the bud before it becomes a problem when everything else kicks off might help a little.

on the otherside Ostermark is on the other side of us from Hochland, and Nordland has made it clear they want no part of our squabbles in the south.
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I agree with this course of action, this could go a long way to helping us make peace with Gunthar, and give us an ally for when we have to intervene in Hochland.
 
i still don't think our relation with Gunthar is good enough for that
 
Z000 said:
i still don't think our relation with Gunthar is good enough for that
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Exactly. Going to Gunthar is something Freddy might do if he has something actionable but below Emperor attention. If the beastmen herds had been building up, thats a concern for Gunthar, but not really Magnus. If bandits based in there are using the provincial borders to hide from retaliation, thats also a Gunthar level concern.

Keeping in mind Gunthar's own intrigue network is toast. He'd be busy the next few years purging his network of infiltrators.
 
Z000 said:
i still don't think our relation with Gunthar is good enough for that
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He dislikes us, and we dislike him, but if there's one thing we know in-character and OOC, is that he's loyal to the Empire.

If we have evidence or proof of bullshit, then appraising him of the situation doesn't seem like a bad move.
 
Aleadrex said:
He dislikes us, and we dislike him, but if there's one thing we know in-character and OOC, is that he's loyal to the Empire.

If we have evidence or proof of bullshit, then appraising him of the situation doesn't seem like a bad move.
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he also as subtle as a bag of dwarf to the face

he most likely to just march in with his force and punch face in

that cause more issue
 
We have no proof of squirrliness. Just good old fashioned power jocking. Do we know if the Witch Hunters of Hochland are compromised? That would be something to find out. And something to report.

Until we have something more concrete than two families making bids for power and the Elector count is gone, then we can start going crazy.
 
The Elector Count isn't even gone though. This is just how he's choosing to run his area. And so far as the Empire is concerned, it works. There is nominal peace, taxes are still being paid, the military is still in existence. There isn't really anything anyone can go to and say "this is why we invaded hochland". Best we can really do is contact the current elector count and discuss with them about the 2 stewards thing. Other than that, no one really has any authority to do anything about it without something actually going terribly wrong there.
 
Z000 said:
i still don't think our relation with Gunthar is good enough for that
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veekie said:
Exactly. Going to Gunthar is something Freddy might do if he has something actionable but below Emperor attention. If the beastmen herds had been building up, thats a concern for Gunthar, but not really Magnus. If bandits based in there are using the provincial borders to hide from retaliation, thats also a Gunthar level concern.

Keeping in mind Gunthar's own intrigue network is toast. He'd be busy the next few years purging his network of infiltrators.
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Our concerns don't have to be actionable. At this point we are simply telling him, "We are concerned about the situation in Hochland. What do you think about it and if the worst happens, what are your thoughts?" I'm not proposing we try to get his help to invade Hochland.

If he blows us off, we come out looking like the bigger person. If he invades without us on just what se currently have, he looks like a loose cannon. if he takes it to Magnus, he looks weak.

His only real option is to respond in a reasonable manner, even if the response is we'll keep watching the situation. It may improve our relations with him and doesn't really cost us anything.
 
Been Re-reading recent parts and found this from the latest electors meet when Freddy had private meeting with the Emperor about Hochland.

torroar said:
"As for Hochland, well," he clasps his hands together once before spreading them out to his sides. "You would know better than I on that front, and I can only counsel that you do your best not to antagonize the Hochlanders further, nor respond to any provocations from them."

So business as usual, then, right up until the Hohenzollerns have to smack the Ludenhof's in the skull again.
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From that we know Magnus believes that Freddy knows more about what to do regarding Hochland than he does and Freddy has decided to wait and see until the situation overflows not to do something premptive.
 
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