- Location
- USA
[X] Vice Admiral Rinias ch'Vohlet
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
In addition, here are the update descriptions we've had along with some of their bonuses:
Sousa is a politician.
Eriksson commands aggressively.
Ablett is Old Guard and on Sabatical.
ch'Volet is a builder.
[X] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa
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See my post here.
I get a BR income of 710 and an SR income of 445. How are you calculating your income?
We almost agree on Explorers, though I think you're missing 0.05 on Technician income.
I'm not sure where you're getting your standard Starfleet calcs though. For Officers we lost -1 Officer crew (the Kearsage; the Lion doesn't count since we don't have to replace that crew since the ship is gone as well) and we crewed 3 Constitution-Bs at 3O each and one Oberth at 1O. That should be a total of -11. Where do you get -17?
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
100% honesty time: Sousa is certainly not a Romulan agent. Honest
> : )
...Also: I would vote for Sousa over Sulu even if he was an option, I made up my mind seeing her be the person that Kahurangi turned to after Miracht exploded. We need a strong and intelligent political will. That she has repeatedly shown a great deal of empathy, even when unnecessary only seals the deal. Put simply, right now, I like her.
> : )
...Also: I would vote for Sousa over Sulu even if he was an option, I made up my mind seeing her be the person that Kahurangi turned to after Miracht exploded. We need a strong and intelligent political will. That she has repeatedly shown a great deal of empathy, even when unnecessary only seals the deal. Put simply, right now, I like her.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
[X] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa
Sousa also has a hidden benefit: age. We are more likely to cycle in Sulu earlier.
Whereas a younger pick might go for ~8 years.
Sousa also has a hidden benefit: age. We are more likely to cycle in Sulu earlier.
Whereas a younger pick might go for ~8 years.
Eh? What are you talking about. Sousa is 61. She's third youngest, with ch'Vohlet being only 1 year younger than her. Whereas Sulu is 75 years old.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa
*sigh*
No Andorian master race this time.
*sigh*
No Andorian master race this time.
- Location
- Someplace USA
Well 16 years means no one will complain about human favoritism too much.
TBD Event Analysis Spreadsheet
I'm not quite done the IC analysis/summary, nor the accompany omake, and I still need to clean the data a bit and probably go over all the Captains' Logs again when I'm not dog tired. There's a lot of guessing involved here, probably a lot of missing rolls that we never even see (I recall one where Oneiros pointed out a Shield roll that wasn't even remarked on in the logs, for example). Check the links on the Non-EC Data sheet for the explanations I'm using. I'm willing to bet some of the response rolls I've labelled D+S are actually D+P. Nor am I accurately able the tell the difference between Planned and Unplanned events, which adds even more inaccuracy. And I am aware that I need to go over the total formulas to make sure I'm not double-counting some failed rolls.
Nevertheless, it seems extremely clear to me that in peacetime it is crucial for our primary garrison ships to have excellent Science and good Presence. The Mirandas, Constellations, and Centaurs of the fleet keep on getting chumped by these rolls, and we relied on them heavily in the past. Note the massive difference in Oberth, Excelsior and the Cheron success rates in comparison! Also, given that the Constitution-B is S3 and P3, we should not expect it to perform significantly better in event response than our existing escorts and cruisers. Rather, it will respond to more events, but perform the same as a Centaur-A except in combat events. Border zone deployment is probably the best bet here. That said the Centaur-A seems to be the victim of sample size and it ought to do somewhat better than it has.
Whether we want to backstop a ship with additional Defense is really up to us. On one hand, you could potentially make up for the D value by jacking up Science or Presence to about 1.5x or 2x. On the other hand, if you add D, you have a ship that responds just as well for less cost but is worse at the actual success roll. It's basically the difference between risking your ship more often versus preserving your ship but potentially missing events. If everything else is equal, S7 P7 D1 is better than S4 P4 D4. Obviously this is an extreme comparison, but you can see this effect with the Miranda and Constellation. The D3 Constellation responds more often than the D2 Miranda, but that just means it fails more often even though it has equal or better stats in every category.
Combat is mostly irrelevant. Shields and Hull only seem to happen after one resolution (or response) failure. And yes, this is in peacetime. Obviously Combat matters a hell of a lot in wartime or in border skirmishing.
Anyway, based on this analysis, I'd be ditching all the tiny designs, including all those combat escorts similar to the Miranda. Or if we do build such a ship, keep it in the unassigned pool. Rather, we should be looking at something like C3 or C2, S5, H3, L3, P5, D3, perhaps with upgrades to C, S, L, or P, and then make such a ship as cheap as possible. That is if we still are looking for an event response escort at all.
Also, our cruisers need to be more generalist. S3 on the Connie-B and Rennie is probably going to mean interesting times ahead.
I'm not quite done the IC analysis/summary, nor the accompany omake, and I still need to clean the data a bit and probably go over all the Captains' Logs again when I'm not dog tired. There's a lot of guessing involved here, probably a lot of missing rolls that we never even see (I recall one where Oneiros pointed out a Shield roll that wasn't even remarked on in the logs, for example). Check the links on the Non-EC Data sheet for the explanations I'm using. I'm willing to bet some of the response rolls I've labelled D+S are actually D+P. Nor am I accurately able the tell the difference between Planned and Unplanned events, which adds even more inaccuracy. And I am aware that I need to go over the total formulas to make sure I'm not double-counting some failed rolls.
Nevertheless, it seems extremely clear to me that in peacetime it is crucial for our primary garrison ships to have excellent Science and good Presence. The Mirandas, Constellations, and Centaurs of the fleet keep on getting chumped by these rolls, and we relied on them heavily in the past. Note the massive difference in Oberth, Excelsior and the Cheron success rates in comparison! Also, given that the Constitution-B is S3 and P3, we should not expect it to perform significantly better in event response than our existing escorts and cruisers. Rather, it will respond to more events, but perform the same as a Centaur-A except in combat events. Border zone deployment is probably the best bet here. That said the Centaur-A seems to be the victim of sample size and it ought to do somewhat better than it has.
Whether we want to backstop a ship with additional Defense is really up to us. On one hand, you could potentially make up for the D value by jacking up Science or Presence to about 1.5x or 2x. On the other hand, if you add D, you have a ship that responds just as well for less cost but is worse at the actual success roll. It's basically the difference between risking your ship more often versus preserving your ship but potentially missing events. If everything else is equal, S7 P7 D1 is better than S4 P4 D4. Obviously this is an extreme comparison, but you can see this effect with the Miranda and Constellation. The D3 Constellation responds more often than the D2 Miranda, but that just means it fails more often even though it has equal or better stats in every category.
Combat is mostly irrelevant. Shields and Hull only seem to happen after one resolution (or response) failure. And yes, this is in peacetime. Obviously Combat matters a hell of a lot in wartime or in border skirmishing.
Anyway, based on this analysis, I'd be ditching all the tiny designs, including all those combat escorts similar to the Miranda. Or if we do build such a ship, keep it in the unassigned pool. Rather, we should be looking at something like C3 or C2, S5, H3, L3, P5, D3, perhaps with upgrades to C, S, L, or P, and then make such a ship as cheap as possible. That is if we still are looking for an event response escort at all.
Also, our cruisers need to be more generalist. S3 on the Connie-B and Rennie is probably going to mean interesting times ahead.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
For BR income, I was taking on an extra 5br for Gamma Canidae V and Lapycorias VII each from research, since it was unclear whether that bonus was already taken into account - he previously listed such mining colonies as e.g. 20 (25) instead of a single number. But with the RP colonies now showing 7 instead of 5 (7), it does look like he's taken the tech bonus into account. So BR income probably should be 710.
For SR income, Rigel ratification increased its SR contribution from 10 to 25. Add that to 445 and we get 460.
See my 2310 EOY expected income breakdown here: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...a-starfleet-quest.32005/page-730#post-7416585
We've had a mysterious 0.05 on EC tech crew income from around 2305 to 2309, but it got removed in 2310 (notice how tech crew changed from 5.25 to 11.2 in 2310, which indicates an income of 1.95 rather than 2).
The differences since that post are the +0.1/0.1/0.1 from new Kadeshi affiliate (assuming that somehow counts) and the Rigel membership, which depending on whether the original major affiliate bonus is kept, is either +0.75/2/1 or +0.65/1.7/0.85.
In your spreadsheet, shouldn't Connie-B crewing occur at CNB9, a year before launch?
I'm seeing 3 Connie-Bs being crewed in Q2 and 2 more Connie-Bs being crewed in Q4. In your spreadsheet, that should be CNB9, one year before launch after CNB12, analogous to how Excelsiors are crewed at EX13/EX13EX than launched the quarter after EX16. Plus that Oberth crewing in Q2. Then the Kearsage crew replenishment of 1/1/1, and the Gale crew replenishment of 0/0/1.
That totals 3*5+1*1+1=17 officers, 4*5+1*1+1 = 22 enlisted, 4*5+4*1+1+1 = 26 tech.
I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I'll try to come up with a full tally backed up by spreadsheet in a couple hours. I need to double check all the posts (and geez 2311 has been filled with updates).
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- Location
- nz
[X] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about those last two Connie-Bs since they were crewed so late int he year.
Updated Ship Registry Details inc Member Worlds
- Location
- Australia
Updated Registry Log Details
NCC-3xx - Freighters
NCC-4xx - Cargo Ships
NCC-6xx - Prospecting Ships
NCC-8xx - Engineering Ships (Ranger Derivative)
NCC-9xx - Colony Ships
NCC-14xx - Soyuz
-1420, 1421 Vulcan; 1422 Andor; 1423 Tellarite
NCC-15xx - Oberths
-1512 Vulcan
NCC-16xx - Mirandas
-
NCC-17xx - Constitutions
-1749 Vulcan; 1750 Tellar; 1751 UESPA
NCC-18xx - Constellations
-1813-1814 UESPA; 1815-1817 Vulcan; 1818-1820 Andor; 1821-1823 Tellar
NCC-19xx - Mirandas
-1901-1905 UESPA; 1906-1910 Vulcan; 1911-1916 Tellar; 1917-1921 Andor
NCC-20xx - Excelsiors
-2017 UESPA, 2018 Tellar
NCC-21xx - Centaurs-
-2109-2110 UESPA; 2111 Vulcan; 2112 Tellar; 2113-2117 Andor; 2118 Tellar; 2119 Amarkia; 2120 Betazed; 2121-2122 Amarkia
NCC-22xx - Rialas
-2201-2203 (Riala, Friec, Abriec)
NCC-23xx - Amarki Escorts
-2301-2304 Brieca class Heavy Escorts, 2305-2308 Calac class Light Escorts
NCC-24xx - Amarki Cruisers
-2401 Perciar class (Perciar); 2402-2405 Hebrinda class (Hebrinda, Hilindia, Odala)
NCC-25xx - Betazed Ships
-2501-2503 Betazoid Cruisers, 2504-2509 Betazoid Patrollers
NCC-26xx - Renaissance
-
NCC-27xx - Fatherships
-2701-2704 Caitian (Pride of Ferasa, Horfa, Mrshawn, Shrr'harr)
NCC-28xx - Swarmers
-2801-2803 Old Swarmers; 2804-2813 Modern Swarmers
NCC-29xx - Turtleships+Megatortoises
-2901 Megatortoise (Yagad-Tich), 2902-2906 Turtleships (Endurance, Hadabat, Monsad)
NCC-30xx - Rigellian Cutters
-3001-3003 Old Cutters; 3004-3008 Cutters
NCC-31xx - Queenships/Little Queenships
-3101 Unity, 3102-3106 Little Queenships
NCC-32xx - Stingers
-3201-3212 Modern Stingers, 3113-3118 Old Stingers
NCC-33xx - Foragers
-3301-3307 Foragers
NCC-34xx - Indorian Ships
-3401 - Ship of the Line, 3402-3404 - Frigates, 3405-3415 Escorts (Patrol/Combat/Large)
NCC-35xx - Hospital Ships
NCC-36xx - New wave Freighters
NCC-37xx - New wave Cargo Ships
NCC-38xx - Next Gen Amarkian Frigates
NCC-39xx - Ambassador class
NCC-40xx - Gaeni Tech-Ships
-4001-4002 Tech-Skiff, 4003-4009 Tech-Cruiser, 4010-4015 Tech-Frigate
NCC-41xx - Keplar class
NCC-42xx - Orion Frigates
4201-4203 Mekpali Light Frigate, 4204-4214 Patrol Escort
NCC-43xx - Orion Cruisers and Explorers
-4301 Vigilante, 4302 Enforcer 4303-4304 Intercept Orbiter
NCC-44xx - New Caldonian Science Cruiser Prototype
NCC-45xx - Caitian Arsharra N'Gir Fatherships
NCC-46xx - Qloathi Capital Ships and Cruisers
-4601 Arqueniou Leb Nin, 4602-4604 Torqui Leb Lagan, 4605-4607 Qalla Leb Tigran, 4608 Arqueniou Leb Nin
NCC-47xx - Qloathi Frigates
-4701-4703 Harqui Leb Adiquan, 4704-4707 Quital Leb Quitan, 4708-4714 Arquila Leb Hoiathi
NCC-48xx - Seyek Capitals and Cruisers
-4801-4802 Sunrise Battleships, 4803-4806 Audacious Cruisers, 4807-4810 Constrictor Destroyers
NCC-49xx - Seyek Frigates
-4901-4902 Seeker Science Frigates, 4903-4904 Soxistin Corvettes, 4905-4910 Peacemaker Corvettes
NCC-50xx - Risan ships
-5001-5005 Heavy Corvette, 5006-5013 Corvette
NCC-51xx - Comet class
NCC-52xx - New build Starfleet Passenger class
NCC-53xx - Ked Paddah ships
-5301-5306 Aggadah class capital, 5307-5325 Orah class frigate
NCC-54xx - Honiani Capitals & Cruisers
-5401-5404 Basilica, 5405 Cathedral, 5407-5412 Reliquary/Chapel
NCC-55xx - Honiani Escorts
-5501-5510 Monastary
NCC-56xx - Laio ships
-5601 Egillah, 5602-5608 Laian Explorers, 5609-5615 Laian Frigates
NCC-3xx - Freighters
NCC-4xx - Cargo Ships
NCC-6xx - Prospecting Ships
NCC-8xx - Engineering Ships (Ranger Derivative)
NCC-9xx - Colony Ships
NCC-14xx - Soyuz
-1420, 1421 Vulcan; 1422 Andor; 1423 Tellarite
NCC-15xx - Oberths
-1512 Vulcan
NCC-16xx - Mirandas
-
NCC-17xx - Constitutions
-1749 Vulcan; 1750 Tellar; 1751 UESPA
NCC-18xx - Constellations
-1813-1814 UESPA; 1815-1817 Vulcan; 1818-1820 Andor; 1821-1823 Tellar
NCC-19xx - Mirandas
-1901-1905 UESPA; 1906-1910 Vulcan; 1911-1916 Tellar; 1917-1921 Andor
NCC-20xx - Excelsiors
-2017 UESPA, 2018 Tellar
NCC-21xx - Centaurs-
-2109-2110 UESPA; 2111 Vulcan; 2112 Tellar; 2113-2117 Andor; 2118 Tellar; 2119 Amarkia; 2120 Betazed; 2121-2122 Amarkia
NCC-22xx - Rialas
-2201-2203 (Riala, Friec, Abriec)
NCC-23xx - Amarki Escorts
-2301-2304 Brieca class Heavy Escorts, 2305-2308 Calac class Light Escorts
NCC-24xx - Amarki Cruisers
-2401 Perciar class (Perciar); 2402-2405 Hebrinda class (Hebrinda, Hilindia, Odala)
NCC-25xx - Betazed Ships
-2501-2503 Betazoid Cruisers, 2504-2509 Betazoid Patrollers
NCC-26xx - Renaissance
-
NCC-27xx - Fatherships
-2701-2704 Caitian (Pride of Ferasa, Horfa, Mrshawn, Shrr'harr)
NCC-28xx - Swarmers
-2801-2803 Old Swarmers; 2804-2813 Modern Swarmers
NCC-29xx - Turtleships+Megatortoises
-2901 Megatortoise (Yagad-Tich), 2902-2906 Turtleships (Endurance, Hadabat, Monsad)
NCC-30xx - Rigellian Cutters
-3001-3003 Old Cutters; 3004-3008 Cutters
NCC-31xx - Queenships/Little Queenships
-3101 Unity, 3102-3106 Little Queenships
NCC-32xx - Stingers
-3201-3212 Modern Stingers, 3113-3118 Old Stingers
NCC-33xx - Foragers
-3301-3307 Foragers
NCC-34xx - Indorian Ships
-3401 - Ship of the Line, 3402-3404 - Frigates, 3405-3415 Escorts (Patrol/Combat/Large)
NCC-35xx - Hospital Ships
NCC-36xx - New wave Freighters
NCC-37xx - New wave Cargo Ships
NCC-38xx - Next Gen Amarkian Frigates
NCC-39xx - Ambassador class
NCC-40xx - Gaeni Tech-Ships
-4001-4002 Tech-Skiff, 4003-4009 Tech-Cruiser, 4010-4015 Tech-Frigate
NCC-41xx - Keplar class
NCC-42xx - Orion Frigates
4201-4203 Mekpali Light Frigate, 4204-4214 Patrol Escort
NCC-43xx - Orion Cruisers and Explorers
-4301 Vigilante, 4302 Enforcer 4303-4304 Intercept Orbiter
NCC-44xx - New Caldonian Science Cruiser Prototype
NCC-45xx - Caitian Arsharra N'Gir Fatherships
NCC-46xx - Qloathi Capital Ships and Cruisers
-4601 Arqueniou Leb Nin, 4602-4604 Torqui Leb Lagan, 4605-4607 Qalla Leb Tigran, 4608 Arqueniou Leb Nin
NCC-47xx - Qloathi Frigates
-4701-4703 Harqui Leb Adiquan, 4704-4707 Quital Leb Quitan, 4708-4714 Arquila Leb Hoiathi
NCC-48xx - Seyek Capitals and Cruisers
-4801-4802 Sunrise Battleships, 4803-4806 Audacious Cruisers, 4807-4810 Constrictor Destroyers
NCC-49xx - Seyek Frigates
-4901-4902 Seeker Science Frigates, 4903-4904 Soxistin Corvettes, 4905-4910 Peacemaker Corvettes
NCC-50xx - Risan ships
-5001-5005 Heavy Corvette, 5006-5013 Corvette
NCC-51xx - Comet class
NCC-52xx - New build Starfleet Passenger class
NCC-53xx - Ked Paddah ships
-5301-5306 Aggadah class capital, 5307-5325 Orah class frigate
NCC-54xx - Honiani Capitals & Cruisers
-5401-5404 Basilica, 5405 Cathedral, 5407-5412 Reliquary/Chapel
NCC-55xx - Honiani Escorts
-5501-5510 Monastary
NCC-56xx - Laio ships
-5601 Egillah, 5602-5608 Laian Explorers, 5609-5615 Laian Frigates
Last edited:
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Thanks for doing this analysis.
Taking the data at face value, it does look like the majority of events are science events, followed by presence events. Did the Centaur-A really have that many science events and nearly 0 presence events?
I don't get the distinction between comms vs sensors as detection method.
I wonder if we could estimate what the distribution of event DCs are from this data. Not a statistician so wouldn't know where to start. Would be nice to know if that event DCs are gradually rising over time, like I suspect it is.
Hopefully, increasing the number of ships, even mediocre ones, helps with net event rewards, factoring in event response, successes, and failure risks. I'm guessing that most events allow multiple responses, and that multiple responses is a net positive, even if it also increases risk.
It's all we can do for the moment, for the first half of this decade at least. Because we're already building as many Excelsiors we can get, committed to starting the Ambassador project first, and we're more worried about meeting garrison requirements and guarding our borders than events at the moment, hence the preference for Renaissance and Centaur-As over Oberths.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Does anyone actually still have any Soyuz up and running? I thought they all got decommissioned.
- Location
- Australia
There are four belonging to Member Worlds (2 Vulcan, 1 Andorian, 1 Tellarite) that are still in service.
There's no distinction. Half of the data gathered is narrative so it can be used IC. In the case of comms versus sensors, or any other method or piece of equipment, it is purely from reading the description of the event, or assumed from the description. If they say they used a deflector, or they reference creating some beam, then I put "Deflector". If they say that Sector Command asked them to go, then I say "Assigned" or "Report", versus if they received a distress call themselves. That kind of thing.
Lone Ranger I believe allows the two best responders to make a roll together? But ships respond individually always.
[X] Vice Admiral Valentina Sousa
- Location
- Australia
With an exception for two explorers - no more than one explorer can respond to an event.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Well, Centaurs sure are popular among the member world fleets. That's 13 Centaurs, up from 7 back in 2307.Q4. Still eclipsed by the 33 Mirandas that the member worlds have, and I don't recall any member world Mirandas being lost recently (only Starfleet lost Mirandas recently).
Weren't their two Perciars? ...
Oh, it got destroyed back in 2309. Before the MWCO was created and registration numbers were assigned to non-Starfleet (or non-Starfleet-designed) vessels.
How the heck did I recall this anyway...
- Location
- Australia
Some of those are still under construction, mind you (about 5 of them)
Also had to make a small fix to the Amarkian and Betazed Centaur registry assignments.
There were but one was lost before the MWCO normalised registries, so it never got one.
... oh, Tal Shiar'd in the same post, I guess
