If the Berths would work out I would say two Centaur-As, presence and science wise they are the same (which I don't know if that is how poor the Connie B and Renissance are or how good a Federation Escort the Centaur-A is). Plus two of them can be in two spots at once and give more ships for commanders and captains to gain experience. Though that will cost more in resources than a Connie B.
 
If the Berths would work out I would say two Centaur-As, presence and science wise they are the same (which I don't know if that is how poor the Connie B and Renissance are or how good a Federation Escort the Centaur-A is). Plus two of them can be in two spots at once and give more ships for commanders and captains to gain experience. Though that will cost more in resources than a Connie B.

How about a Connie-B and an Oberth instead? Two of them in two spots at once, but for very different applications. That's what I have in the sheet right now.
 
We should definitely have a Starfleet Intelligence Oberth observing the Rommie/Klingon War, IMO. We could switch the T'Mir's assignment for it but I'd prefer we instead gave Intelligence a second ship for the job, and keep watching the Cardies with T'Mir at the same time.
 
How about a Connie-B and an Oberth instead? Two of them in two spots at once, but for very different applications. That's what I have in the sheet right now.
Yeah that would work, tech does not seem to be a constraint crew wise and that gives us another strong science ship. Still I think at some point we want some more Centaur-A. They work wonders as escort and can fit in around more crew heavy ships plus they are just solid all arounders. They really do fit what a Federation ship is, with balance states (only hull is not a 3).
 
We should definitely have a Starfleet Intelligence Oberth observing the Rommie/Klingon War, IMO. We could switch the T'Mir's assignment for it but I'd prefer we instead gave Intelligence a second ship for the job, and keep watching the Cardies with T'Mir at the same time.
Hmm. It doesn't put Intel Oberths in the majority, so that side of it is workable I think.
 
>oberths are science ships
>keep talking about using them as intel trawlers basically

On a shipyard somewhere in Federation space, someone is trying to stop the original designer of the Oberth as he smashes a spanner into the hull of a half-completed one repeatedly, screaming "I MADE THE OBERTH TO HELP THE FEDERATION STUDY STARS NOT DESTROY IT"
 
Your spreadsheet is still a bit off - member ratifications replace the affiliate tech-based bonus (currently 0.1/0.1/0.1) not the major affiliate bonus (0.1/0.3/0.15 for Rigel). Although this behavior isn't explicitly noted anywhere, it's what Nix and I figured out from our crew income audits.

So the increase is actually 0.65 officer, 1.9 enlisted, 0.9 tech - even better!
Previously it didn't use a "increases to" wording, so it probably replaces both in this instance.
 
>oberths are science ships
>keep talking about using them as intel trawlers basically

On a shipyard somewhere in Federation space, someone is trying to stop the original designer of the Oberth as he smashes a spanner into the hull of a half-completed one repeatedly, screaming "I MADE THE OBERTH TO HELP THE FEDERATION STUDY STARS NOT DESTROY IT"
Social sciences are sciences too, not just physics. Calm down you wrench wielding maniac.
 
On a shipyard somewhere in Federation space, someone is trying to stop the original designer of the Oberth as he smashes a spanner into the hull of a half-completed one repeatedly, screaming "I MADE THE OBERTH TO HELP THE FEDERATION STUDY STARS NOT DESTROY IT"

Look if you want us to stop using our best sensory things as AGIs, build us a dedicated AGI.
 
Okay bros and hos, I'm going to do a thing. The thing that I am going to do is the Federation Affiliate Challenge.

Every week, starting from this coming sunday, I will write an omake that explores one of the current (as of Q3 2311) Federation affiliates. That list includes:

- Apiata
- Indorions
- Caldonians
- Orions
- Risa
- Gaeni
- Qloathi
- Seyek
- Kadeshi

Before writing each one, I will trawl through the thread and read up on everything that's already been established about them, plus whatever is on Memory Alpha for the canon species. The products will be of highly variable length, tone, and importance with regards to fleshing out the species.

Who should I start with?
 
>oberths are science ships
>keep talking about using them as intel trawlers basically

On a shipyard somewhere in Federation space, someone is trying to stop the original designer of the Oberth as he smashes a spanner into the hull of a half-completed one repeatedly, screaming "I MADE THE OBERTH TO HELP THE FEDERATION STUDY STARS NOT DESTROY IT"

Funnily enough things like the genesis device seem like exactly the sort of thing Doctor Death would have created. Though he would probably have named it something like the 'Death Wave Generator'.

No doubt the project name for the Oberth would have been: 'Survey ship of Death'
 
Okay bros and hos, I'm going to do a thing. The thing that I am going to do is the Federation Affiliate Challenge.

Every week, starting from this coming sunday, I will write an omake that explores one of the current (as of Q3 2311) Federation affiliates. That list includes:

- Apiata
- Indorions
- Caldonians
- Orions
- Risa
- Gaeni
- Qloathi
- Seyek
- Kadeshi

Before writing each one, I will trawl through the thread and read up on everything that's already been established about them, plus whatever is on Memory Alpha for the canon species. The products will be of highly variable length, tone, and importance with regards to fleshing out the species.

Who should I start with?
Gaeni please! Or failing that, the Qloathi could use some love.
 
Yeah that would work, tech does not seem to be a constraint crew wise and that gives us another strong science ship. Still I think at some point we want some more Centaur-A. They work wonders as escort and can fit in around more crew heavy ships plus they are just solid all arounders. They really do fit what a Federation ship is, with balance states (only hull is not a 3).
We'll probably want to build Centaur-As again after the big initial wave of Rennies is done. By which point we'll have something like fifteen to eighteen modern cruisers, and our crew stockpiles will likely have worn down enough that ships which are lightly-manned and 'fungible' and can be shuffled around to tack on a point or three of extra Defense start to look appealing.

Although that point will also be about the right time for us to seriously consider starting our next-generation escort project.

I should note that while tech income doesn't seem to be a problem NOW, depending on what we do in the near future that could change. If we reduce tech recruitment in favor of officers, continue building explorers at a high rate, and start building a significant number of science vessels, the tech supply could start slimming down again.
 
Before writing each one, I will trawl through the thread and read up on everything that's already been established about them, plus whatever is on Memory Alpha for the canon species. The products will be of highly variable length, tone, and importance with regards to fleshing out the species.

Who should I start with?

We've seen very little about the Indorians omake-wise.

Also, should we consider building starbases at Solitude and/or Tipperary as they're right on the border?

A KBZ starbase wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
Well, it gives us a way to weave in the "TOS-era Klingon appearance is due to gene tinkering," without making the Klingons look like complete morons for picking up random genes off the curbside and splicing them in without knowing where they'd been. If you're allergic to the idea I don't object.

Plus, this was in the broader context of fan theory that the Vulcans are splicer descendants of the ancestral Vulcans. Who looked more like Romulans, but the Romulans got the hell out rather than surrender to Surak's rather drastic "abolish love and fun so we can keep our crazy splicer emotions under control" program.

Definitely a lot more fun than the "Terran Empire" mirror version of the quest that we seem to get occasional cross-posts from. The ones about how we need to unleash massive violence or have weapons of mass destruction 'just in case,' with that weird, gleeful tone. Bleh.

The Romulans and Klingons were out in space in, like, the 1500s. The Andorians and Tellarites are 'younger races' by their standards. Humans are the newest of the newbies. So as others have noted, the evidence supports the idea that all four Federation founding races were really small and puny at the founding of the Federation. By contrast, their two or three biggest rivals were all fairly old and well developed, suh that four minor powers had to pool their resources just to be competitive.

Then, over time, the Federation grew to overshadow them through diplomacy, recruiting new species, and exploration and science that gave them technological advantages...

Almost certainly not. Humans in this time-period are shifting away from commercial pursuits pretty hard; it's the only way to explain the way Picard talks. SOME humans will no doubt join the Mercantile faction, just as some humans are no doubt Hawks, Pacifists, or Developmentalists. But it won't become the dominant preferred party of United Earth.

Now, the Orions may wind up enormously grateful for this if and when the Orion Union joins the Federation. And they may become a powerful influence within the Mercantile faction.

That said, the Rigellians may currently be planning to form their own bloc for (sensible) power-brokering purposes. RIght now there are four parties, one of which is rather marginalized (Hawks), so that an alliance of any two of the other three is likely to dominate. With five parties, one of whom is new and free to throw its weight around, there is a bit less certainty. Which in turn means the Rigellians get disproportionate political leverage, more than they'd enjoy if they just became "still more Development voters."

Though it'll be interesting to see how Development and Mercantile positions differ on key issues.
For added fun, next year is election year for most of the founders.
 
I'm very curious to see what the current human politics run with for Presidential candidates.

My pet theory is that 'Idealism' is humanity's drug of choice with regards to philosophy and a response to Surak's teachings, much as 'Logic' is the vulcan drug of choice in response to his teachings.

It would explain a hell of a lot about the transitions already noted in the show from the Eugenics Wars and the human reaction to first contact. If your racial hat is basically to be the Cardassians, but you can't conveniently run across Hebitian ruins to propel a single group to prominence and get a technological kick in the pants, there are only so many directions for the naturally 'creative treachery' race to go.
 
So I have a suggestion for an Ambassador-class name, preferably an Explorer:

The Jefferson. Then we could have the voyages of the Starship Jefferson. And this would be it's theme song:






Sorry I'm not sorry.

Yes, I know it's Starship, not Jefferson Starship.
 
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