To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Then that is fair. He's proven himself incapable of larger command. Besides Starfleet has no issues with someone hanging around at the same rank for 50 years or whatever. If he was ambitious that would be bad, but if all he wants is to sit in his command chair, then everything works out.
I'd fully agree with you if he were the Captain of an Oberth or some other minor vessel. But we really should not have people like him in command of one of the most advanced ships in the fleet.
- Location
- Germany
I don't think we want people like that as officers in our fleet.
I know that might lead to a less shiny path than we want, but this crisis is not over and the next will follow at some point.
In a battle were every second counts that kind of behaviour is not just irresponsible, it's criminal. That attitude means that foes willing to take hostages have a weapon against him. Always.
I want a full trial. It doesnt have to end with anything bad for him, no, prison or something like that, but I don't want him giving orders during a battle ever again.
I know that might lead to a less shiny path than we want, but this crisis is not over and the next will follow at some point.
In a battle were every second counts that kind of behaviour is not just irresponsible, it's criminal. That attitude means that foes willing to take hostages have a weapon against him. Always.
I want a full trial. It doesnt have to end with anything bad for him, no, prison or something like that, but I don't want him giving orders during a battle ever again.
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Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This.
This.
This, so, so much. This is not Hard Spacers Doing Hard Things, While Hard. This isn't 40k either, where the Grim Finality of Defiance Against The Alien, Mutant and Heretic is core to everyone's beliefs. This is Star Trek, one of the most optimistic and positive settings in all of Science Fiction.
We should nurture that.
Eh, wouldn't it actually be an advantage if the Plaque took over the shipyards considering it would give us/you a perfect target to attack that the enemy is more or less forced to defend? I mean the main problem here seems to catch the enemy since at this point we outnumber him quite clearly.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
By all indications he is a fine commander in regular situations. If we weren't dealing with something (on a scale so large most people in Starfleet probably haven't fully had it sink in yet.) So out of the ordinary this would never have come up. After the crisis is over he should be fine where he is. And this sort of respectful compromise may end up as the most politically expedient thing to do anyway.
He balked at orders to / kill civilians./
The situation warranted that call, but he should not be condemned for that.
His failing was one of personal judgement not morality. And even then the personal failing is not severe enough for punishment, merely reassignment.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
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We don't know of there are infected shipyards in the RNZ
- Location
- Germany
Starfleet is still military, isn't it?
The possibility of hostage-situations should have come up before he became captain of a ship that sees military use.
- Location
- somewhere
I don't want them to have access to federation shipyard tech even briefly. Worst case they use it to upgrade their existing shipyards in the neutral zone.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Once again he didn't balk at orders to fight. He balked at orders to KILL CIVILIANS. Even then his actions were to buy time and not to refuse the order utterly. The ultimate utility of that order was correct, but I will not see a man censured for his conscience.
I expect that in all other circumstances he would be a perfectly acceptable officer. His inability to set himself aside derecommends his from higher command, but he should still be able to serve well once the crisis has passed.
- Location
- Germany
Don't get me wrong, I understand the decision and all that. But it's about this:
If he wasn't prepared for a situation where shooting at civilians might be the least bad option, then it's a failure in our system.
This was a classic hostage situation where not killing the hostages was clearly the worse option, not just for the Federation, but for them too.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
He was in command of the Excelsior in the Sol Garrison.
Ships on exploration cruises may have had hostage situations, but it is much less likely in Sol.
Given his posting in the Sol System he most likely hasn't seen nearly as much action as his peers in the explorer corps or in a riskier sector. I'd hazard to say that he could be one of those good on paper but unable to perform types.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Like, politically and morally our best bet is to put him on developing rapid transporter protocols or something for the duration of the crisis as a manager if nothing else, then return him at the end of the crisis, and leave Excelsior as a garrison vessel. Then when assignment opportunities come up, we simply don't pick him for anything. He doesn't need much more than a reprimand for needing to be relievedby T'Faer. And we avoid a political fight and we take the moral high ground, and we get the utility of having him out of the Captain's chair.
Use his example to make sure in a positive manner that all our Captain's will follow orders because no one will be afraid to say "I might not be able to" before we put them elsewhere. O dont want someone to sit there in doubt and paralysis feeling forced to do something. I want people who know they can do the job.I would respect officers who admit that they might not be able to use the Challorn Protocols.
Use his example to make sure in a positive manner that all our Captain's will follow orders because no one will be afraid to say "I might not be able to" before we put them elsewhere. O dont want someone to sit there in doubt and paralysis feeling forced to do something. I want people who know they can do the job.I would respect officers who admit that they might not be able to use the Challorn Protocols.
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Then they will have a weapon against him, always. Maybe that's acceptable.
I find @AKuz 's argument to be pretty convincing. Hesitation to kill civilians is a good trait to have.
Though at this point I'm not even clear we're going to get to vote on it. No vote was offered. Will we even have the opportunity to intervene, or is it too far down the chain of command for the head of Starfleet to make a judgment on?
- Location
- Central Standard Time
We need to set a clear precedent, and this is an existential crisis.
Also, State of Emergency.
I would like to have a clear precedent that a hesitation to kill civilians, no matter how much we seem to be in a bullshit real life trolley-style philosophical problem, will never be punished too harshly. That is the precedent I would like to set.
EDIT: You call it an "existential" crisis... but let's be serious, we both think that bullshit Star Fleet science will save the day. It's the actions we take while saving the day that will haunt us onwards.
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- Location
- somewhere
Named Starfleet Ships
Unaccounted for: 2 Constellation, 6 Miranda, 2 Oberth, 2 Soyuz
Unaccounted for: 2 Constellation, 1 Centaur, 6 Miranda, 2 Oberth, 2 Soyuz
Unaccounted for: 2 Constellation, 1 Centaur, 6 Miranda, 2 Soyuz
Also see this doc and the affiliate ship designs by @anon_user
| Ship | Class | Captain | XO | Assignment |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Adelphi | Soyuz | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Bon Vivant | Miranda | ??? | ??? | RBZ |
| Calypso | ??? | ??? | ??? | probably Sol |
| Challorn | Constellation | Michel Thuir | Mbeki | RBZ |
| Cheron | Constitution | Revak | ??? | Vulcan |
| Courageous | Excelsior | Victoria Eaton | Rosalee McAdams | Exploration Corps |
| Docana | Constellation | Syzi ch'Zelil | ??? | Andor |
| Enterprise | Excelsior | Nash ka'Sharren | Maryam Ajam | Exploration Corps |
| Eketha | Miranda | ??? | ??? | Andor |
| Excelsior | Excelsior | Yamada Ichigo | ??? | RBZ |
| Intrepid | ??? | ??? | ??? | ??? |
| Kearsage | Constellation | previously Rachel Ainsworth | ??? | KBZ |
| Kumari | Excelsior | Rachel Ainsworth | ??? | KBZ |
| Lion | Miranda | previously Nash ka'Sharren | ??? | KBZ |
| Polaris | probably Constellation | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Sarek | Excelsior | T'Lorel | ??? | Exploration Corps |
| Stallwart | Constellation | Mirko Jelenic | ??? | Sol |
| Svai | Miranda | sh'Mararis | ??? | RBZ |
| T'Kumba | Miranda | unnamed Vulcan | Percival Amin | Vulcan |
| T'Mir | Oberth | Samyr Kanil | ??? | RBZ |
| Vokau | Soyuz | ??? | ??? | Vulcan |
| Yukikaze | Centaur | Jessica Rivers | ??? | RBZ |
| Ship | Class | Captain | XO | Assignment |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Adelphi | Soyuz | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Bon Vivant | Miranda | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Calypso | ??? | ??? | ??? | probably Sol |
| Challorn | Constellation | Michel Thuir | Mbeki | RBZ |
| Cheron | Constitution | Revak | ??? | Andor |
| Courageous | Excelsior | Victoria Eaton | Rosalee McAdams | RBZ |
| Docana | Constellation | Syzi ch'Zelil | ??? | Andor |
| Enterprise | Excelsior | Nash ka'Sharren | Maryam Ajam | Romulan Quarante Fleet |
| Eketha | probably Miranda | ??? | ??? | Andor |
| Excelsior | Excelsior | Michael O'Hara (relieved)/ Yamada Ichigo (acting) | Yamada Ichigo | RBZ |
| Faithful | Miranda | Jorge | ??? | RBZ |
| Intrepid | ??? | ??? | ??? | ??? |
| Kearsage | Constellation | previously Rachel Ainsworth | ??? | ??? |
| Kumari | Excelsior | Rachel Ainsworth | ??? | RBZ |
| Lion | Miranda | previously Nash ka'Sharren | ??? | KBZ |
| Polaris | probably Constellation | ??? | ??? | Andor |
| Sarek | Excelsior | T'Lorel | ??? | RBZ |
| Stallwart | Constellation | Mirko Jelenic | ??? | Andor |
| Svai | Miranda | sh'Mararis | ??? | RBZ |
| T'Kumba | Miranda | unnamed Vulcan | Percival Amin | Vulcan |
| T'Mir | Oberth | Samyr Kanil | ??? | RBZ |
| Vokau | Soyuz | ??? | ??? | Vulcan |
| Yukikaze | Centaur | Jessica Rivers | ??? | RBZ |
| Ship | Class | Captain | XO | Assignment |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Adelphi | Soyuz | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Bon Vivant | Miranda | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Calypso | ??? | ??? | ??? | probably Sol |
| Challorn | Constellation | Michel Thuir | Mbeki | RBZ |
| Cheron | Constitution | Revak | ??? | Vulcan |
| Courageous | Excelsior | Victoria Eaton | Rosalee McAdams | Exploration Corps |
| Docana | Constellation | Syzi ch'Zelil | ??? | Andor |
| Enterprise | Excelsior | Nash ka'Sharren | Maryam Ajam | Exploration Corps |
| Eketha | probably Miranda | ??? | ??? | Andor |
| Excelsior | Excelsior | Michael O'Hara | Yamada Ichigo | Sol |
| Faithful | Miranda | Jorge | ??? | RBZ |
| Intrepid | ??? | ??? | ??? | ??? |
| Kearsage | Constellation | previously Rachel Ainsworth | ??? | ??? |
| Kumari | Excelsior | Rachel Ainsworth | ??? | RBZ |
| Lion | Miranda | previously Nash ka'Sharren | ??? | KBZ |
| Miracht | Miranda | ??? | ??? | ??? |
| Polaris | Constellation | ??? | ??? | Sol |
| Sarek | Excelsior | T'Lorel | ??? | Exploation Corps |
| Stallwart | Constellation | Mirko Jelenic | ??? | Sol |
| Svai | Miranda | sh'Mararis | ??? | RBZ |
| T'Kumba | Miranda | unnamed Vulcan | Percival Amin | Vulcan |
| Vokau | Soyuz | ??? | ??? | Vulcan |
| Yukikaze | Centaur | Jessica Rivers | ??? | RBZ |
Also see this doc and the affiliate ship designs by @anon_user
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- Location
- Germany
I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.
The issue is more "What would be too harsh?"
Do we want him imprisoned? From the tone so far I guess not.
Do we want him to continue being a member of the Starfleet? Maybe, maybe not.
Do we want him to keep his rank? Propably not.
Do we want him in charge of a military vessel during a serious crisis? I certainly don't.
I'm willing to have him in charge of a military vessel during a serious crisis in the generic. Maybe not this particular serious crisis, but a future crisis is unlikely to involve needing to blow up ships fill of civilian refugees.
Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Cheron.
Also:
Also: this is really cool and I hope it gets threadmarked and periodically updated.
I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one, given that the phage has been freely expending cloaked shuttles at us. Either the phage has infected a large supply dump of cloaked shuttles, or it's got a shipyard and has worked out the plans to build more based on the T'Seren's twelve.
In fairness, the turn's not over yet - we haven't heard from Ka'Sharren and the Romulans. The decision (if there is one) might be put there.
I'm with @AKuz and @Briefvoice and the others calling for O'Hara to be transferred, not drummed out of the service.
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Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In my case -- no, yes, yes, yes.
He made the right decision - T'Faer made the necessary decision.
Both of them should continue to serve Starfleet and the United Federation of Planets to the best of their ability.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I want his badge, on our desk, this time yesterday. I realize that that's a minority belief, but I really find his actions inexcusable. Countless people may be subjected to death or a fate worse than it because of his direct disobedience of orders and inability to handle a crisis situation he signed up for and was warned about. I would never trust his judgement after this.
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Actually the more I think about it, O'Hara and T'Faer are the perfect example of why Humans and Vulcans work so well together. Unfortunately all those qualities can turn around to lead to situations like this