To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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There is only 1 Soyuz at the Klingon Border Zone right now, so how are you transferring 2 to Tellar? Currentt Klingon deployment:
- Currently, 1 Constellation (3), 1 Soyuz (1), 2 Miranda (4)
[X][BOSS] Captain Rachel Ainsworth
[X][XO] From Medical
[X] [DEPLOY] Nix but #Soyuz corrected
-[x] Recall USS Courageous & USS Sarek from Explorer Duties to the Romulan Border Zone
-[x] Sol - USS Excelsior to Transfer to Romulan Border Zone, 2 Constellations to Andoria
-[x] Vulcan - USS Charon to Transfer to Kingon Border Zone
-[X] Tellar - 1 Constellation to Klingon Border Zone, 1 Miranda to Andoria.
-[X] Klingon Border Zone - 1 Soyuz to Tellar
-[X] Andoria - 1 Soyuz to Sol
- Location
- somewhere
Seems I mixed that up with the number of Mirandas? Thanks, corrected.
- Location
- Australia
Or ... for that matter ... if that hideous half-life, half-death existence as self-aware bio-circuitry even counts as death in battle, or merely something worse than death?
So I'd like to make a more complete argument for picking Ainsworth.
Detecting cloaked ships is important, but that roll will happen relatively few times. +1 Shields will affect every single ship that's fighting.... and we're sending quite a fleet! Is it better to do well on a few detection rolls, or to be able to take nine extra hits if there's a fleet battle? Remember, all ships have been ordered to keep their shields up at all times, so an out-of-nowhere Alpha strike is less dangerous than it would be normally.
Detecting cloaked ships is important, but that roll will happen relatively few times. +1 Shields will affect every single ship that's fighting.... and we're sending quite a fleet! Is it better to do well on a few detection rolls, or to be able to take nine extra hits if there's a fleet battle? Remember, all ships have been ordered to keep their shields up at all times, so an out-of-nowhere Alpha strike is less dangerous than it would be normally.
AKuz
Been Better
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- A Rising Tide of Horrors
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The few detection rolls are more important, I would rather lose half our fleet than Ten Billion civilian lives. What if we let one slip through? Extra shield rolls aren't going to matter when your family is swallowing blood tentacles.
-[x] Recall Courageous & Sarek from Explorer Duties to the Romulan Border Fleet
-[x] Sol - 1 Excelsior to Transfer to Romulan Border Fleet, 2 Constellations to Andor
-[x] Vulcan - 1 Constitution to Transfer to Romulan Border Fleet
-[X] Tellar - 1 Constellation to Klingon Border Fleet
[X] [BOSS] Captain Rachel Ainsworth
[X] [XO] From Medical
I'm gonna have to go with Ainsworth. We don't need to just stop the Inflictor, we need to survive the aftermath, and we're going to lose enough ships as it is. Plus, the Romulans are legitimately crazy enough that I would not be at all shocked if their followup to 'Yay the plague is destroyed' is 'Now we all breach our warp cores and die with glory to ensure the absolute safety of our people. Don't be shy, we'll help you out.'
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Is that what you see as being the stakes on the Detection rolls? I don't. This thing may be intelligent, but it's not that strategic. I'm sure all of us could come up with far more devastating strategies given its resources. I think it's going to fly around infecting colonies and outposts as it happens upon them until it sees a chance to pick up more ships to carry itself, then try to grab those.
But fair enough. I get your position, even if I don't agree.
AKuz
Been Better
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- A Rising Tide of Horrors
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- She/Her
To lay out a better reasoning:
Our first and main advantage is numbers. Unless the Romulans are still fucking around with us even now, we know that The Inflictor Mutaphage has two vessels: The Warbird and The Miranda.
Any wolf pack of ships should be able to take out a Miranda, hell an angry tree could take out a Miranda. And a Warbird is something we are also capable of taking out, as long as ships don't start moving around in small numbers, and those that are damaged burn themselves rather than spread the Infection (The Romulans certainly will, hopefully the Starfleet crews can make the same sacrifice. )
Our advantages are that The Inflictor Mutaphage has limited vectors and obvious fixed targets. Detecting threats to those targets is paramount, and so is preventing it from reaching any target, and we must minimize it's ability to fulfill it's goals.
The most effective strategy is detecting it as fast as possible, catching two vessel isolated from each other and our fleets will eliminate it before it can begin dropping shields, but if it slips through our nets, Infliction vectors will increase and so will attacks on vessels. Only then would a shield advantage come into play.
Smothering it in the crib is a more efficient use of resources. Less opportunities for infection, faster resolution of the issue.
Detect this thing early enough and shielding doesn't even need to come into play. Heck if we detect the Heavy Warbird operating under cloak we can hit it with its shields down and prevent any return fire. Compared to that a single Miranda is a limited thread in a fleet battle environment.
Also, commanders aside: If at all possible we should offload non-essential personnel and allow those remaining the opportunity to leave, taking volunteers ready to die only.
Our first and main advantage is numbers. Unless the Romulans are still fucking around with us even now, we know that The Inflictor Mutaphage has two vessels: The Warbird and The Miranda.
Any wolf pack of ships should be able to take out a Miranda, hell an angry tree could take out a Miranda. And a Warbird is something we are also capable of taking out, as long as ships don't start moving around in small numbers, and those that are damaged burn themselves rather than spread the Infection (The Romulans certainly will, hopefully the Starfleet crews can make the same sacrifice. )
Our advantages are that The Inflictor Mutaphage has limited vectors and obvious fixed targets. Detecting threats to those targets is paramount, and so is preventing it from reaching any target, and we must minimize it's ability to fulfill it's goals.
The most effective strategy is detecting it as fast as possible, catching two vessel isolated from each other and our fleets will eliminate it before it can begin dropping shields, but if it slips through our nets, Infliction vectors will increase and so will attacks on vessels. Only then would a shield advantage come into play.
Smothering it in the crib is a more efficient use of resources. Less opportunities for infection, faster resolution of the issue.
Detect this thing early enough and shielding doesn't even need to come into play. Heck if we detect the Heavy Warbird operating under cloak we can hit it with its shields down and prevent any return fire. Compared to that a single Miranda is a limited thread in a fleet battle environment.
Also, commanders aside: If at all possible we should offload non-essential personnel and allow those remaining the opportunity to leave, taking volunteers ready to die only.
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Hmm... That does make a bit more sense.
[x] Nix
[x] Nix
- Location
- somewhere
Agreed on the first three, but after that xenopsychology, then sensors. Medical can wait until the specialist team is done with the biophage research. It's a bit premature to talk about that now, though.
- Location
- Australia
By the way, what do people feel about the mechanics used by the Federation Council turns? I'm currently nailing down some of my mechanics for things such as war-time/crisis turns and want to see what people have liked and disliked with the mechanics to try to make this enjoyable and not frustrating for people.
Edit: and, I suppose, how it stacks up to the Research turns mechanics (having 'x' number of teams to activate) in terms of accessibility and interest?
Edit: and, I suppose, how it stacks up to the Research turns mechanics (having 'x' number of teams to activate) in terms of accessibility and interest?
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- Location
- somewhere
I generally like them a lot. One thing that might make it even more interesting would be differentiating between things that are unpopular and things that are difficult/expensive, maybe some requests like shipyards and starbases should have a resource cost in addition to pp?
Something else that could make them more interesting is costs fluctuating more in response to events and public opinion, though that would make them a lot more work for you.
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Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
- Location
- Neon Ghetto
[X]Nix
For a warrior culture, I could see the solution on this being the consignment of any crews assigned to combatThe Beast Biophage to death. Basically, they're considered dead the moment they enter combat. I'd suspect then that the Klingon crews would fight with an even greater ferocity, to "prove" that they had earned their privilege of afterlife , rather than it being handed to them.
...For any other race I'd also see the crews being motivated to win back their lives from death by beating the Biophage, but Klingons seem big on veneration of death.
On an off note though, I will say that I prefer the TOS Klingons to TNG ones; they're still a warrior culture, but one that's significantly more predatory. In a way, not unlike the Samurai, in that deception and traps on field of battle aren't really cowardice as long as you get to fight and kill the other guy. But then again, my favorite Klingon was Chang, so...
For a warrior culture, I could see the solution on this being the consignment of any crews assigned to combat
...For any other race I'd also see the crews being motivated to win back their lives from death by beating the Biophage, but Klingons seem big on veneration of death.
On an off note though, I will say that I prefer the TOS Klingons to TNG ones; they're still a warrior culture, but one that's significantly more predatory. In a way, not unlike the Samurai, in that deception and traps on field of battle aren't really cowardice as long as you get to fight and kill the other guy. But then again, my favorite Klingon was Chang, so...
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
[X] [DEPLOY] No Free Lunch for Inflictor
-[X] Recall USS Courageous & USS Sarek from Explorer Duties to the Romulan Border Zone
-[X] Sol - USS Excelsior to Transfer to Romulan Border Zone, 2 Constellations to Andoria
-[X] Vulcan - USS Charon to Transfer to Kingon Border Zone
-[X] Tellar - 1 Constellation to Klingon Border Zone, 1 Miranda to Andoria.
-[X] Klingon Border Zone - 1 Soyuz to Tellar
-[X] Andoria - 1 Soyuz to Sol
[X][BOSS] Commodore T'Faer
[X][XO] From Medical
-[X] Recall USS Courageous & USS Sarek from Explorer Duties to the Romulan Border Zone
-[X] Sol - USS Excelsior to Transfer to Romulan Border Zone, 2 Constellations to Andoria
-[X] Vulcan - USS Charon to Transfer to Kingon Border Zone
-[X] Tellar - 1 Constellation to Klingon Border Zone, 1 Miranda to Andoria.
-[X] Klingon Border Zone - 1 Soyuz to Tellar
-[X] Andoria - 1 Soyuz to Sol
[X][BOSS] Commodore T'Faer
[X][XO] From Medical
@AKuz and I have a theory that the Klingon regime seen in TOS and the TOS movies, in tune with being the Soviet analouges, are actually an abnormal government that overthrew a lot of traditional Klingon elements -- see Azetbur (sp?) succeeding the Klingon Chancellor despite the fact that in TNG women aren't permitted on the high council. Basically, instead of being medieval feudalist, the TOS Klingons attempted to establish a more controlled central authority based on merit and calculating rationality versus the honor-based and warrior traditions of the past, which we know existed in Enterprise. It would actually explain a lot if this is the case, including why the Klingons are so extreme in TNG onwards - it's a bunch of reactionaries running around.
If you go with this interpretation the switch to TNG Klingons should probably be happening right around... now.
Well... I can imagine a few ways in which alliance-forming could have led to Andorians evolving complex social genders as a glue for tribal groups.
It does seem that the Klingon Empire of TOS is a much more dangerous beast than the TNG Empire - that gels with them having a major environmental disaster per ST: VI which ripped out the economic heart of their empire. However - given that the whole reason for Klingons having flat heads is now supposed to be that they stole human Eugenic Superman DNA and creating cross-breads, it may also be that the TNG Klingons don't just act dumber - they actually ARE dumber than the TOS Klingons.
fasquardon
I would dispute that. TOS Klingons are more cunning but it is reinforced even as late as DS9 that Klingons are not to be underestimated or fucked with. Despite persistent memeing to the contrary and a frankly misguided idea that the Federation is some USA-style Hyperpower, it is 100% canon that had Rachel Garret not sacrificed the Enterprise-C the Federation, even militarized, was going to get it's ass fucking kicked by the KDF in the 2360's.
They may be angry space vikings hung up on honor but that just makes them more dangerous in the sense you don't know what's going to set them off. They are still more than capable of thoroughly fucking shit up. Old Klingons would slyly wait for an excuse to ruin your day. New Klingons roll up in the War Rig and stab your kids, shoot you, blow up your house, steal your vinyls and then drag your cat behind them when they drive down the street to do it to the next house. For fun.
Do not underestimate them.
I dunno. I know Enterprise suggests that the Klingons afflicted by the Augment virus might behave differently but I think that's not really borne out (also, it's stupid, and that's from the guy who does consistent Enterprise apologia in this thread). Koloth, Kang, Kor were legendary heroes before and after they got their ridges back, and Jadzia never comments on how they've changed from the TOS days due to some genetic re-sequencing. I suspect the re-ridging was more cosmetic than anything - the difference in Klingon behavior suggests something more of a cultural/political attitude. You could interpret uh -- whichever one of those 3 is in Day of the Dove 's attutide in said episode as reflecting this. He's tired of all the cunning and the manipulation and now he wants to get back to good old warrioring.
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Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [DEPLOY] Cruiser Dogpile
-[x] Recall Courageous & Sarek from Explorer Duties to the Romulan Border Fleet
-[x] Sol - 1 Excelsior to Transfer to Romulan Border Fleet, 2 Constellations to Andor
-[x] Vulcan - 1 Constitution to Transfer to Romulan Border Fleet
-[X] Tellar - 1 Constellation to Klingon Border Fleet
[X] [BOSS] Captain Rachel Ainsworth
[X] [XO] From Medical
-[x] Recall Courageous & Sarek from Explorer Duties to the Romulan Border Fleet
-[x] Sol - 1 Excelsior to Transfer to Romulan Border Fleet, 2 Constellations to Andor
-[x] Vulcan - 1 Constitution to Transfer to Romulan Border Fleet
-[X] Tellar - 1 Constellation to Klingon Border Fleet
[X] [BOSS] Captain Rachel Ainsworth
[X] [XO] From Medical
Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
- Location
- Neon Ghetto
Show writing discrepancies aside, that's something I can agree on. Especially if you consider that ultimately, TOS Klingon Empire ended up almost self-destructing itself through Praxis Catastrophe. I always thought that the seeming shift in Klingon mentality between TOS and TNG was the natural result of Klingons reflecting on the Empire and thinking "you know, these things just don't work for us, we should look back to our good old days!", which then returned with vengeance. Even more so if you consider that Praxis was mostly just mine/energy facility; it would have been tempting for more conservative elements of Klingon society to blame the entire debacle on non-warriors and letting them run things.
...you know, that would be a good idea for plot arc for Blue Kirk, especially since it would give her the chance to insult all the groups in the Empire!
Just think of the fireworks!