- Location
- ?
No but can we actually make one? I want one.*
*I want two, but I'd deal.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
*I want two, but I'd deal.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd like to see the Hawks have approximately the power of the Pacifists, if only so we don't have to pay PP for the privilege of remembering that our ships have phasers for things other than dealing with space debris.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
As a society, the Federation leans more towards the Pacifistic side than the Hawkish side though, so it would make sense for the Pacifists to have more power.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Admission of Bias: I never felt we need Linderly's bonus in the first place. However, I was prepared to live with it, it wasn't a huge deal, but his attitude and approach in the meeting leaves me cold to say the least
Anyway, I think evidence is currently showing that while he is capable and dedicated to information security and protecting assets... He can't see beyond that. In his position he needs to be able to see the wider implications of Intelligence use. He seems to see the hoarding of Intelligence in security as an inherent good of it's own. Except the purpose of intelligence is to see use, something that he has belligerently refused to acknowledge. (This even extends to him having to take a break in the middle of briefing the head of Starfleet in order to read up on the commander of the ship at the center of the crisis, I'm mildly willing to excuse not having the information memorized, but to have to go digging for and not having it directly at hand? He seems spectacularly ill prepared)
Perhaps this crisis has hit before he has had a chance to fully settle in and recalibrate his mindset. ( I mean for Element's sake he seems genuinely worried that the Klingons might realise that you can use a ship to intercept communications, in which case he's either a massive specist or an idiot!! Seriously though, we wouldn't loose anything by handing over the logs captured by the Courageous, WHICH WOULD HAVE LITERALLY NOTHING THEY DIDN'T KNOW. IT SHOULD BE PATENTLY OBVIOUS TO ANYONE THAT WE ACCIDENTALLIED ONE OF OUR SHIPS GETTING THIS DATA. Refusing to hand over even the unredacted Orion information which should be proof all on it's own is utter incompetence. We have no need to risk the T'Mir to prove that this cloak is out there. The T'Mir is a complete non issue. He's trying to sandbag us or something. No wonder the Klingons doubt our story if he's treating them like idiots. I have a vague suspicion that he may have actually damaged our position with the Klingons somewhat with this half assed measure that pleases no one except himself.)
But the thing that in my mind genuinely disqualifies him from his current position is that his response was rude insubordination without explanation. I'm willing to take a lot from someone willing to explain themselves, but I'd rather not have a brick wall for a subordinate.
In short, he has not acquitted himself well.
Our best bet is to go ahead and create a Vice Admiral's billet for Starfleet Intelligence, jump someone else with a strong personality into it (Patricia Chen perhaps) and let Linderly continue on as the head of Internal Security with someone to ride herd on his bad qualities. Let him dig for infiltrators and traitors in peace without bothering him with the hard questions about what to do with information.
...I miss Admiral other Nash. We should have gone to bat for her. I feel bad now for not arguing for that...
Anyway, I think evidence is currently showing that while he is capable and dedicated to information security and protecting assets... He can't see beyond that. In his position he needs to be able to see the wider implications of Intelligence use. He seems to see the hoarding of Intelligence in security as an inherent good of it's own. Except the purpose of intelligence is to see use, something that he has belligerently refused to acknowledge. (This even extends to him having to take a break in the middle of briefing the head of Starfleet in order to read up on the commander of the ship at the center of the crisis, I'm mildly willing to excuse not having the information memorized, but to have to go digging for and not having it directly at hand? He seems spectacularly ill prepared)
Perhaps this crisis has hit before he has had a chance to fully settle in and recalibrate his mindset. ( I mean for Element's sake he seems genuinely worried that the Klingons might realise that you can use a ship to intercept communications, in which case he's either a massive specist or an idiot!! Seriously though, we wouldn't loose anything by handing over the logs captured by the Courageous, WHICH WOULD HAVE LITERALLY NOTHING THEY DIDN'T KNOW. IT SHOULD BE PATENTLY OBVIOUS TO ANYONE THAT WE ACCIDENTALLIED ONE OF OUR SHIPS GETTING THIS DATA. Refusing to hand over even the unredacted Orion information which should be proof all on it's own is utter incompetence. We have no need to risk the T'Mir to prove that this cloak is out there. The T'Mir is a complete non issue. He's trying to sandbag us or something. No wonder the Klingons doubt our story if he's treating them like idiots. I have a vague suspicion that he may have actually damaged our position with the Klingons somewhat with this half assed measure that pleases no one except himself.)
But the thing that in my mind genuinely disqualifies him from his current position is that his response was rude insubordination without explanation. I'm willing to take a lot from someone willing to explain themselves, but I'd rather not have a brick wall for a subordinate.
In short, he has not acquitted himself well.
Our best bet is to go ahead and create a Vice Admiral's billet for Starfleet Intelligence, jump someone else with a strong personality into it (Patricia Chen perhaps) and let Linderly continue on as the head of Internal Security with someone to ride herd on his bad qualities. Let him dig for infiltrators and traitors in peace without bothering him with the hard questions about what to do with information.
...I miss Admiral other Nash. We should have gone to bat for her. I feel bad now for not arguing for that...
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I'm in favor of increasing expansion to a larger plurality.
Can we order him to release only the Courageous data to the Klingons with a notice saying "We lost good people to get this intel." and something about honor.
But Akuz if we did that we wouldn't have had the PP to stroke our REVENGE BONER
Thanks!
Just for you, here's the Hawk symbol. Its a stylized depiction of the Amarki goddess of war, Mag-Ukka.
- Location
- the Moon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A lot of people are going to judge the current head of SFI based on a cost-benefit basis, so please answer me what the expected benefit of having the klingon's believe us about the cloaked ship? The cloak in question was so badly damaged everyone thought it was destroyed. I will be astonished if it isn't the mother of all kit bashes. Even if the klingons still have the schematics I doubt they would be very helpful. Were we hoping for them to send us some ships? Why would the cloak matter? hell, they're gearing up for a war with the romulans
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Don't look at the benefit, look at the cost. The Klingons now believe we lied to them for some nebulous political gain, possibly to use them. This is a problem considering they're seeing an honor-based cultural resurgence around this time. Linderly just did some not insignificant damage to their respect for us.
I propose a simple but perhaps unorthodox solution:
- We get the USS Sappho
- We get them drunk
- We give them knives
- We send them into Klingon space
- ???
- Respect
- Pronouns
- They/Them
But Akuz if we did that we wouldn't have had the PP to stroke our REVENGE BONER
What's that from?
- Location
- somewhere
Being skeptical is a very different thing from a positive belief that you have been lied to and generally doesn't cause any strong negative reaction. In fact long term it might cause them to be less skeptical the next time once it becomes clear we were telling them the truth this time.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
FIRST, ALL THE STUFF THAT ISN'T ABOUT LINDERLEY:
If we can get behind this "assemble the ships into fleets for ease of coordination" move, I think we're good. That's what's really causing problems- there are like forty individual ships we need to coordinate, and that's before we even consider the member worlds.
____________________________________________
NOW, ABOUT LINDERLEY:
I could say a lot of stuff about the Linderley thing. In fact, I have already written it. Like, two thousand words.
But I've decided to save time and space by saying, basically I agree with everything @The Laurent and @AKuz said. They nailed it, and I don't need to spend the next umpty paragraphs rambling about it. Also props to @Glassware, though if we're lucky the Klingons will find out we weren't lying to them, we were just being a bunch of secretive creeps.
I will say one thing, in my defense:
I was most worried about mole hunts, and that so far has not been a problem yet, you're right- but this is a very closely related problem. A guy I was worried would go on mole hunts to protect secrets and defend against having his agents subverted, is instead refusing to reveal information to the Klingons in order to protect secrets and defend against having his agents subverted. Because he's worrying about "what if there are Cardassian moles in the Klingon government" just as he might worry about Cardassian moles in the Federation government.
I freely admit I didn't predict this specific problem, but I do feel that I correctly identified that there could be a problem, and correctly identified the reasons why.
You also gave them a wacky "eye on the pyramid" vibe.
The catch is that if we have ships far from the crisis area, and we don't start moving them now, they may not get there until the crisis comes to a head. If the crisis resolves itself in a fleet battle, that could result in us getting defeated in detail.
Well, the system would work pretty well if we were just fighting, oh, the Sydraxians, because we'd only have to worry about moving a relatively small number of ships. But against a combined Cardassian-Sydraxian threat with a side order of wandering stealth cruiser, we're moving basically every ship we have including the member world fleets. Keeping track of that on a single-ship level is going to be exhausting.
The problem is that our trained NPC staff is in fact OneirosTheWriter, who while undoubtedly a fine strategist isn't necessarily a better strategist than, say, Briefvoice. It's not obvious that letting Oneiros write three plans and hand them to us leads to better outcomes than soliciting write-ins from the players. Furthermore, then it's Oneiros moving all the chess-pieces on both sides of the board, which can detract from the fun a bit in my opinion.
If we can get behind this "assemble the ships into fleets for ease of coordination" move, I think we're good. That's what's really causing problems- there are like forty individual ships we need to coordinate, and that's before we even consider the member worlds.
____________________________________________
NOW, ABOUT LINDERLEY:
I could say a lot of stuff about the Linderley thing. In fact, I have already written it. Like, two thousand words.
But I've decided to save time and space by saying, basically I agree with everything @The Laurent and @AKuz said. They nailed it, and I don't need to spend the next umpty paragraphs rambling about it. Also props to @Glassware, though if we're lucky the Klingons will find out we weren't lying to them, we were just being a bunch of secretive creeps.
I will say one thing, in my defense:
I'm going to be honest, my suspicions were very broad and I leapt to the worst-case scenario in there, but my general fear was that he would start acting like a generic 'spook' That the 'spook' mentality would color his actions in ways that would be counterproductive, because counterintelligence is a world where the distorting hall of mirrors is at its most distorting.
I was most worried about mole hunts, and that so far has not been a problem yet, you're right- but this is a very closely related problem. A guy I was worried would go on mole hunts to protect secrets and defend against having his agents subverted, is instead refusing to reveal information to the Klingons in order to protect secrets and defend against having his agents subverted. Because he's worrying about "what if there are Cardassian moles in the Klingon government" just as he might worry about Cardassian moles in the Federation government.
I freely admit I didn't predict this specific problem, but I do feel that I correctly identified that there could be a problem, and correctly identified the reasons why.
I see it on tumblr but I honestly have no clue otherwise.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While this may be true for now, I won't pretend I am not looking forward to absorbing the Dawiar.
- Location
- USA
Unless I missed something what people are not addressing is Linderly's concern over losing an Intel method not an Intel source. this is just not oh T'mir has to be recalled, no it would be we can't send Oberth on that type of mission again if it leaks.
Also consider each faction had their own tech tree and abilities, and the Federation is very science focused. it is quite likely that our ships have capabilities the others do not which we are using.
And you have to consider that cardassians have a different cultural mindset. the openness of the Federation without a hidden motive is not something they can understand as it does not fit into their framework on how things work. the same applies to Intel, some of our methods would be ones they never consider.
Also bear in mind we have more constraints on the actions and methods of our Intel compared to the other factions.
Also consider each faction had their own tech tree and abilities, and the Federation is very science focused. it is quite likely that our ships have capabilities the others do not which we are using.
And you have to consider that cardassians have a different cultural mindset. the openness of the Federation without a hidden motive is not something they can understand as it does not fit into their framework on how things work. the same applies to Intel, some of our methods would be ones they never consider.
Also bear in mind we have more constraints on the actions and methods of our Intel compared to the other factions.
Honestly while I don't agree with his assessment that isn't my problem with Linderly. My problem with him is that he made two critical fuckups in a very short period of time.
First and foremost he failed to properly advise Admiral Kahurangi with regards to informing the Klingons of the prototype cloak. While it's (apparently) his right to decide what information can and cannot be shared the simple fact that Admiral Kahurrangi was surprised is unacceptable. The instant she proposed alerting the Klingons he should have spoken up and said he's declared key information too sensitive to reveal. Even in the worst case scenario he should have told her before the message to the Klingons went out so she could decide if she still wanted to send it knowing it would be ignored.
His second mistake was blatantly disrespecting the head of Starfleet. Sure he said "Respectfully" but what followed was full on disrespect. He talked to her like a child who didn't understand the importance of intelligence gathering. To make matters worse not only did he do this not in private, where it could potentially be excused, but in front at least three Vice Admirals (Sulu, Sousa, and Eriksson). There was no reasoning, no calm discussion, just him flat out saying he knows better and then when warned about his behavior he doubled down and taunted her by saying she can't touch him.
This sort of behavior is flat out unacceptable for a Starfleet officer let alone a Rear Admiral and department head.
First and foremost he failed to properly advise Admiral Kahurangi with regards to informing the Klingons of the prototype cloak. While it's (apparently) his right to decide what information can and cannot be shared the simple fact that Admiral Kahurrangi was surprised is unacceptable. The instant she proposed alerting the Klingons he should have spoken up and said he's declared key information too sensitive to reveal. Even in the worst case scenario he should have told her before the message to the Klingons went out so she could decide if she still wanted to send it knowing it would be ignored.
His second mistake was blatantly disrespecting the head of Starfleet. Sure he said "Respectfully" but what followed was full on disrespect. He talked to her like a child who didn't understand the importance of intelligence gathering. To make matters worse not only did he do this not in private, where it could potentially be excused, but in front at least three Vice Admirals (Sulu, Sousa, and Eriksson). There was no reasoning, no calm discussion, just him flat out saying he knows better and then when warned about his behavior he doubled down and taunted her by saying she can't touch him.
This sort of behavior is flat out unacceptable for a Starfleet officer let alone a Rear Admiral and department head.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Linderley says it's skepticism. Linderley was also shifting awkwardly and hesitating to respond. I think Linderley may have been trying to recast things in a favorable light...
This is actually not a bad plan, fraternity bros would get along well with Klingons. Although Klingons seem to have a surprisingly diverse outlook and are accepting of all kinds of people, as long as they are suitably cranky, violent, and honorable.
[ @AKuz , I know you've been playing Star Trek Online; given your achievements in the field of yuri I have to ask, did you ever run into the Klingon lesbians?]
There was arguably a third back there earlier- when the Courageous incident was still being investigated, Linderley got busy hunting for moles who 'blew' the operation, rather than, say, focusing on where the Syndicate got their weapons from or something like that. I suspect that his mole hunt turned up nothing, while we might have learned something about, say, Cardassian supply channels to and from the Syndicate otherwise.
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Lesbian Klingons was actually so surprising and unexpected I thought I'd misunderstood something. I imagine my character didn't know Klingon that well and had a Gal Pals moment.
"She's my par'mach."
"Haha, they're your... soulmate, then? Good to see you're so close!
"
2310.Q1.M1.W1 - Ghosts and Whispers Pt 3 (Revamped Vote)
- Location
- Australia
Okay, revamped vote system. Starfleet Tactical has three response plans for this scenario, part of a number of possibilities they have been processing since becoming aware of the Kadak-Tor.
Current Situation
Multiple groups of Cardassian warships are on the move, coming from all major systems. Exact number and composition of each team is yet to be ascertained. Those ships that typically operate within the frontier area against our Explorer Corps (The Trager, Karnack, Ronagot, and Parok) are converging on an area in or around -5c. Those coming from within Cardassia are headed for Bajoran space.
The Kadak-Tor is suspected, with minimal confidence attached, to be in or around subsector -4f. It was headed tailward, past Bajoran space through the gap between Seyek and Federation space.
[ ] Case Alpha - Push up to the Border
(Detach some reinforcements from Vulcan, KBZ and RBZ fleets to reinforce the others.
Focus your strength in: Vega, Tales Har, 15 Themis, Ord Grind Duk, Pygmalion
Sarek, S'harien, Enterprise group up at Seyek's Celesipos Outpost, between Qloath and Lecarre, as a potential flanking force.)
[ ] Case Beta - Consolidate
(Your fleets will gather closer to home, looking to protect vital systems and potentially counter-attack intrusions.
Abandon the Apinae Sector and CBZ to create consolidated fleets. Sydraxian/Yrillian threats must be covered by the member world fleets while Starfleet focuses on the Cardassians.
Focus your strength in: Selindra, Sar Alpha
Sarek, S'harien, and Enterprise move to group up near Risa as a rapid interdiction force.)
[ ] Case Gamma - Risk Dawiar anger, gut the other sectors to rush forces to Ferasa
(Abandon the CBZ to hold the line at Leas Akaam instead. Andor, Tellar, Vulcan, Amarkian sector shift as many ships as possible to Ferasa. Sol Sector moves to Lagh Cheg to support any of Tales Har, Klivvar Proxima, or Vega.
Focus your strength in: Ferasa, Lagh Cheg
S'harien and Enterprise move to Ferasa, Sarek moves at all possible speed tailward to not get cut off from Federation territory.)
[ ] Case Delta - Insuffiicent information, don't commit yet.
(Simply shift sector fleet deployments to the rimward parts of their sector.
Sarek, S'harien, and Enterprise move to group up near Risa as a rapid interdiction force.)
[ ] Case Epsilon - Write in fleet-wide instructions
Current Situation
Multiple groups of Cardassian warships are on the move, coming from all major systems. Exact number and composition of each team is yet to be ascertained. Those ships that typically operate within the frontier area against our Explorer Corps (The Trager, Karnack, Ronagot, and Parok) are converging on an area in or around -5c. Those coming from within Cardassia are headed for Bajoran space.
The Kadak-Tor is suspected, with minimal confidence attached, to be in or around subsector -4f. It was headed tailward, past Bajoran space through the gap between Seyek and Federation space.
[ ] Case Alpha - Push up to the Border
(Detach some reinforcements from Vulcan, KBZ and RBZ fleets to reinforce the others.
Focus your strength in: Vega, Tales Har, 15 Themis, Ord Grind Duk, Pygmalion
Sarek, S'harien, Enterprise group up at Seyek's Celesipos Outpost, between Qloath and Lecarre, as a potential flanking force.)
[ ] Case Beta - Consolidate
(Your fleets will gather closer to home, looking to protect vital systems and potentially counter-attack intrusions.
Abandon the Apinae Sector and CBZ to create consolidated fleets. Sydraxian/Yrillian threats must be covered by the member world fleets while Starfleet focuses on the Cardassians.
Focus your strength in: Selindra, Sar Alpha
Sarek, S'harien, and Enterprise move to group up near Risa as a rapid interdiction force.)
[ ] Case Gamma - Risk Dawiar anger, gut the other sectors to rush forces to Ferasa
(Abandon the CBZ to hold the line at Leas Akaam instead. Andor, Tellar, Vulcan, Amarkian sector shift as many ships as possible to Ferasa. Sol Sector moves to Lagh Cheg to support any of Tales Har, Klivvar Proxima, or Vega.
Focus your strength in: Ferasa, Lagh Cheg
S'harien and Enterprise move to Ferasa, Sarek moves at all possible speed tailward to not get cut off from Federation territory.)
[ ] Case Delta - Insuffiicent information, don't commit yet.
(Simply shift sector fleet deployments to the rimward parts of their sector.
Sarek, S'harien, and Enterprise move to group up near Risa as a rapid interdiction force.)
[ ] Case Epsilon - Write in fleet-wide instructions
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
In that case, his forth mistake was not presenting any options moving forward. He expected the Federation to pull a rabbit our of a hat again, and did not accept he was on stage and part of the act.
If he had a way to get more and better information while protecting sources, then he would be helping, and not just empire building.
If he had a way to get more and better information while protecting sources, then he would be helping, and not just empire building.