Hmm, looking at the details for Base Strike and Decisive Battle, I'm pretty torn between the two.
 
Well, whenever I can get a refit spreadsheet further up my agenda. Will always be a bit sticky with the canon ships whose stat blocks were created before the spreadsheet.

I'm glad you're planning that refit spreadsheet, but yeah, no need to rush on it.

I think for the ship classes existing at the start of this quest, the current ad-hoc refit process works fine, because of the very fact that they're no longer aligned with the ship design spreadsheet. Plus, you yourself admitted that the Constitution and Renaissance are overpowered (for their expected times, relative to ship design spreadsheet), and there's not much that can be done to retroactively fix that. At least not without pissing off players :p

A revamped refit process with a refit spreadsheet, along with a more finalized ship design spreadsheet, is only needed once we actually do concretely fully design a ship via the spreadsheet, and that will be in-game years from now, which translates to a RL month or so from now.
 
I don't believe researching Escort design is a hot priority right now, so putting a second team on Warp Cores. Also, I want to get the Lone Range Doctrine thoroughly researched as soon as possible. I'm wiling to take a small hit to Cardassian research by putting Games & Theory on it instead of the Tiger Team. There will always be another level there, so whatever. There is no reason not to put Games and Theory on the Cardassians just because the Tiger Team could get our intelligence better one year earlier (_maybe_) when it means starting research on an Offensive Doctrine we don't plan to continue. So instead I'm proposing we research all three branches of Lone Ranger.

Research ideas:
San Francisco Fleet Yards: Starship Construction Turn of the Century Starship Frames +8
40 Erdani A Shipyards: Escort- 2310's Warp Cores +6
Vulcan Science Academy: Sensors- 2310s Short-Range Sensors +8
Starfleet Science Academy : Computing- 2310s Computing Installations+6
Daystrom Institute: Computing- 2310s Shipboard Computing +8
Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science: Mineral Science- Turn of the Century Mineral Technology +6
Andorian Academy: Shields 2310s Deflector Shields +6
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: Warp Tech- 2310s Warp Propulsion +8
Starfleet Tactical Command - Games & Theory Division: Foreign Analysis - Cardassian +7
Spock: 2300s Xenopsychology +10
Starfleet Medical Command: Medical- Early 24th Century Trauma Medicine +6
Utopia Planitia Design Group: Renissance Techs +10
Lt-Cdr Kuznetsova's Tiger Team: Lone Ranger Way of the Elephant +9
Admiral Lathriss: Fleet Design- Lone Ranger Way of the Anchor +9
Federation Broadcast Service Innovations Department Comms- 2310s Message Security +4
Office of Naval Architecture- Lone Ranger Way of the Giant +7
University of Betazed Research School, Personal-Basic ToC Equipment +6
Weapons Fabrication Division Test Office Weapons-ToC Weapons +4

[X] Base Plan Renaissance and Counter Intel
-[X] San Francisco Fleet Yards: ToC Starship Frames
-[X] 40 Erdani A Shipyards: Early 24th Century Escort Science Package
-[X] Vulcan Science Academy: 2310s Long-Range Sensors
-[X] Starfleet Science Academy : 2310s Shipboard Computing
-[X] Daystrom Institute: 2310s Computing Installations
-[X] Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science: ToC Mineral Technology
-[X] Andorian Academy: 2310s Deflector Shields
-[X] Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: 2310s Warp Cores
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Command - Games & Theory Division: Klingon Research
-[X] Spock: 2300s Xenopsychology
-[X] Starfleet Medical Command: Early 24th Century Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia Design Group: Renissance Techs
-[X] Lt-Cdr Kuznetsova's Tiger Team: Cardassian Research
-[X] Admiral Lathriss: Lone Ranger Way of the Giant
-[X] Federation Broadcast Service Innovations Department: 2310s Message Security
-[X] Office of Naval Architecture: Lone Ranger Way of the Elephant
-[X] University of Betazed Research School: Basic ToC Equipment
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division Test Office: ToC Weapons

18 teams at 8 RP =144 RP used, 70 RP remaining



Klingon Research in case we want to debate on offensive doctrine more. Otherwise finishing up the initial techs and starting two of the lone ranger doctrine choices. I do have two on computers as one path leads to reduced crew requirements and the other to +1 PP per colony (we have 11 right now)

Things that can change: 40 Erdani could be moved to one of the warp techs, Tactical Command could be moved to an offensive doctrine if we can decide on which one to do

Also do we have generic teams available? If we do activating one or two may not be a bad idea.

Can you put Daystrom on the Computing Installations? That gives us a 75% chance of finishing the 2320s mainframe in 3 turns, doing science academy this turn on computing installations then Daystrom on 2320s mainframe drops the chance to 12.5% for finishing in three years which is significant. It is one more year until we get to the colony core which will be giving us at least 11 pp a year once we finish it.

And I do think making sure we get the two combat power changes and the evasion in two turns guaranteed is worth waiting on anchor for a year. Of the three lone rangers anchor is the one that I see as being furthest off. Explorers and the Connie-B already have very good response rolls, and we are not bumping into our combat score cap yet so I feel like that can wait.

Did @OneirosTheWriter really put in all that work, and we're still going to have a research turn where it's near-unanimously voting for the same plan?

I mean, hell, don't vote for my plan if you don't like but there must be some kind of argument for some sort of alternative. Please someone make one!

I have an issue with the current plans – they don't consider Explorer design.

For the Ambassador, I want Explorer Science and Engineering done, because I don't want to use 2200s tech on our next-gen explorer.

To that end, we should obtain a new Light Cruiser team (we only have UP right now) to finish the Rennie project in 2310, freeing up UP to rush explorer research. We should have multiple because of the branching anyways.

Yes, it could wait until next year, but our deadline for a canon introduction is 2313.

@OneirosTheWriter, what are the numbers for L2 and L3 fudge?
 
True, but Wolf Pack looks to be a little more geared towards fleets of smaller ships, and right now we're leaning further towards prioritizing Explorers.
Explorers operating alone or in small groups could pick off vulnerable targets.

Any ship could pull off guerilla warfare and skirmishing tactics. They're all pretty mobile.
 
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True, but Wolf Pack looks to be a little more geared towards fleets of smaller ships, and right now we're leaning further towards prioritizing Explorers.

Decisive battle also has some sub-techs that are bonuses for having lots of escorts. It looks like all of them have a few things that help with lots of small ships, and a bunch of neat things that don't.
 
[X] Base Plan Lone Ranger, Counter Intel and Ambassador Prep
-[X] San Francisco Fleet Yards: Turn of the Century Explorer
-[X] 40 Erdani A Shipyards: 2310s Warp Core Safety
-[X] Vulcan Science Academy: 2310s Long-Range Sensors
-[X] Starfleet Science Academy : 2310s Shipboard Computing
-[X] Daystrom Institute: 2310s Computing Installations
-[X] Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science: ToC Mineral Technology
-[X] Andorian Academy: 2310s Deflector Shields
-[X] Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: 2310s Warp Cores
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Command - Games & Theory Division: Cardassian Research
-[X] Spock: 2300s Xenopsychology
-[X] Starfleet Medical Command: Early 24th Century Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia Design Group: Renissance Techs
-[X] Lt-Cdr Kuznetsova's Tiger Team: Lone Ranger Way of the Elephant
-[X] Admiral Lathriss: Lone Ranger Way of the Giant
-[X] Federation Broadcast Service Innovations Department: 2310s Message Security
-[X] Office of Naval Architecture: Lone Ranger Way of the Anchor
-[X] University of Betazed Research School: Basic ToC Equipment
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division Test Office: ToC Starship Frames

Based on Renaissance and Counter Intel and I believe stictly superior in all respects except arguably Cardassian Research (see below).
Since we can start the Ambassador project as early as 2310 and there is no chance to finish any tier 1 weapon research until then we can delay that in favor of Explorer design. Cardassian reseach will finish the vital counter intel tech at the same time even with the Games & Theory team because it got inspiriation before, possibly two other techs as well if they also get inspiration in the next two turns. Researching the more immediately relevant second warp power tech compared to Briefvoice's plan.

[X] Lone Ranger, Counter Intel and Ambassador Prep
 
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I have an issue with the current plans – they don't consider Explorer design.

For the Ambassador, I want Explorer Science and Engineering done, because I don't want to use 2200s tech on our next-gen explorer.

To that end, we should obtain a new Light Cruiser team (we only have UP right now) to finish the Rennie project in 2310, freeing up UP to rush explorer research. We should have multiple because of the branching anyways.

Yes, it could wait until next year, but our deadline for a canon introduction is 2313.

@OneirosTheWriter, what are the numbers for L2 and L3 fudge?
FFS we can just ignore canon introduction, since that matters precisely ZERO in this quest. We could wait 20 years and it won't matter

Edit: I seem to have went a little Elmer Fudd in my grammar there for some reason, fixed :p
 
@OneirosTheWriter I'm pretty sure a few parts of the following need to be fixed:
PREREQS - ToC Communications
2310s Networking
Technology for enabling people to work together.

4 / 40 DataNet 2.0 (Research Net II) (Gain +5 RP/year)
0 / 40 Regional DataNet (Colony Research Net I) (Research Colonies cost -1 pp)

LEADS TO - 2320s Federation Datanet
LEADS TO - 2320s Colony Datanets
The above says it leads to the below, but the below says it requires something else.
PREREQS - 2310s Message Security
2320s Federation Datanet
Technology for looking into other people's messages, or stopping them from looking into yours.

0 / 60 Federation DataNet 3.0 (Research Net III) (Gain +5 RP/year)
0 / 40 Public Outreach I (1 Non-Affiliate at Random gets a Diplomatic Push)

LEADS TO - 2330s Federation Datanet
LEADS TO - 2330s Affiliate Datanet
I'm pretty sure Public Outreach I should only be in one of these, but note that the numbering in 2340s assumes the latter is right so you might need to fix it as well.
PREREQS - 2320s Federation Datanet
2330s Federation Datanet
Technology for looking into other people's messages, or stopping them from looking into yours.

0 / 80 Federation DataNet 3.5 (Research Net IV) (Gain +5 RP/year)
0 / 60 Public Outreach I (1 Non-Affiliate at Random gets a Diplomatic Push)

LEADS TO - 2340s Federation Datanet
LEADS TO - 2340s Affiliate Datanet

For everyone else, Public Outreach appears to be very useful. I would prefer if our research plans started on the prerequisite (whatever that might be).
 
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For those who are submitting plans, when it comes to the techs that have their full trees laid out, can I ask if you have short-term goals in mind, or long term targets? Are the future techs affecting your decisions at all?
Beelining for Colony Cores is affecting my decisions for sure, other future techs to a lesser degree. So a mix of some long term and a lot of short term goals.
 
Seems to be a split with the people who are more into ship design who seem to see a new Explorer project as an immediate thing, whereas it's not really on my radar right now.
 
It's actually only really AD who want's explorer NOW, we're more on a better Oberth at the moment
Until the crew rules get revamped or we get crew saving techs the only possible better Oberth is an Oberth refit. Everything in the thread would be a worse Oberth, with higher stats, but lower science:tech ratio.

You also shouldn't confuse number of designs posted with desire to start a project of that kind, the science ship would be entirely new and therefore there is more to discuss there compared to the Ambassador, that doesn't mean people see it as higher priority.
 
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Random question but at any point would it be worth it to do the refit projects on Mirandas and Constellations? Make them more useful in general than they have been or is it now not worth it at this point?
 
Random question but at any point would it be worth it to do the refit projects on Mirandas and Constellations? Make them more useful in general than they have been or is it now not worth it at this point?
I'm provisionally eyeing 2310 or 2311 for one of those refits. We will start the first wave of Constitution-Bs in 2309, they finish in 2312, the Renaissance prototype should finish in 2314, that means there is a gap we can fit a bunch of refits into.
 
[X] Base Plan Renaissance and Counter Intel

I appreciate the detailed explanation of the reasons for all choices. I admit I'm having trouble keeping track of all the variables involved; can anyone give me a reason I shouldn't vote for this plan?
 
Although honestly, the research options are so dizzyingly big, with potentially dozens of teams on dozens of topics, that it's a "hard" topic to keep track of. It's a lot easier to have a contentious vote on a subject where there is only one thing to decide on, like "turn left or turn right." When there are twenty different things to decide upon, and most of them seem like good ideas without an obvious downside, there isn't enough margin of opportunity cost to make it easy for people to get contentious.

I agree. I'm having a tough time cross-referencing between tech trees and research teams (the accordion/slide isn't helping either), trying different combinations, and just comparing plans in general. I think I need the equivalent of Briefvoice's ship building planner spreadsheet for research planning. Ideally complete with inspiration probabilities and the ability to handle the research branching.

I'm also undecided on the offense doctrine I prefer, to the point that I'm tempted to just vote for avoiding researching it this year.

Plus, I'm too tired to think this through, so I'll vote after I get some sleep (assuming it isn't closed by then).

Random question but at any point would it be worth it to do the refit projects on Mirandas and Constellations? Make them more useful in general than they have been or is it now not worth it at this point?

In addition to what the others said, I want to wait for the member world coordination office to see if it can help with the refits - my reasoning.
 
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[X] Base Plan Renaissance and Counter Intel

I appreciate the detailed explanation of the reasons for all choices. I admit I'm having trouble keeping track of all the variables involved; can anyone give me a reason I shouldn't vote for this plan?
We can research all 3 lone ranger techs without sacrificing any counter intel and we can prepare for the Ambassador without sacrificing anything at all. The only possible advantage of that plan over mine is slightly faster Cardassian research, but not for the vital counter intel tech anyway.
 
Okay, so what is this plan researching that you didn't select to research? If they've dropped something you want to try, it must be in favor of something else.
 
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