Personally I like Base Strike more, because not only does it help us attack enemy starbases and secure orbit, but helps us defend against the same thing.

Was there a post detailing the bonuses of each doctrine in more detail somewhere? I could've sworn i saw one.
 
Attack patterns unlocked in other doctrine trees will still be available for use by your Captains.

Changes that those doctrines make in terms of shifting defence obligations, costs, etc, are obviously incompatible, only those belonging to the active doctrine will apply.


Wait, I'm not sure that I totally understand the contention here.

We have three branches of doctrines, Fleet Design, Offensive and Defensive. Are we allowed to have one of each active at once? I recall you mentioning at one point that trying to have an Offensive and Defensive Doctrine active at the same time could lead to issues, although my memory may be wrong.
 
Attack patterns unlocked in other doctrine trees will still be available for use by your Captains.

Changes that those doctrines make in terms of shifting defence obligations, costs, etc, are obviously incompatible, only those belonging to the active doctrine will apply.

Wait, that's news to me. The attack/defense patterns unlocked across any doctrines being accessible to ship captains regardless of current doctrine part that is. I mean, it's something I wanted, so I'm not complaining at all. It makes it useful to research other doctrines even if we don't intend to switch to them.

Was there a post detailing the bonuses of each doctrine in more detail somewhere? I could've sworn i saw one.

Latest one I found: Sci-Fi - Starfleet Ship Design Bureau ("To Boldly Go...") | Page 20
 
We have three branches of doctrines, Fleet Design, Offensive and Defensive. Are we allowed to have one of each active at once? I recall you mentioning at one point that trying to have an Offensive and Defensive Doctrine active at the same time could lead to issues, although my memory may be wrong.
Yes we can have one of each. It was mentioned we can change the active doctrine but there would be a period with penalties or reduced effectiveness as we switched focus.
 
I'm in favor of decisive battle. It might synergies better with fleet in being than forward defense, though.
 
I'm surprisingly liking Wolf-Pack combined with Lone Wolf. It gives us a lot of control of when we fight and don't fight, and I think it is good for wearing people down to get them to the negotiation table, as opposed to kicking down their industrial base or killing off their whole fleets.
 
Can you put Daystrom on the Computing Installations? That gives us a 75% chance of finishing the 2320s mainframe in 3 turns, doing science academy this turn on computing installations then Daystrom on 2320s mainframe drops the chance to 12.5% for finishing in three years which is significant. It is one more year until we get to the colony core which will be giving us at least 11 pp a year once we finish it.

Sure, done.

Explorers and the Connie-B already have very good response rolls,

There is no such thing as a "good enough" response roll given that you can miss the whole event with a low roll, and remember that Constellations are cruisers and this will help improve their lousy Response rolls. I view the response improvements as one of the most valuable things in the entire doctrine.

Well you may remember how the Cardassians have beaten us in the intel field twice and are launching multiple major operations a year with the potential to destroy ships, remove allies, spark open conflict, etc etc etc. Getting better counter-intel means we lose fewer people.

Getting better counter-intel means a few extra lines of text on our yearly intelligence report. I don't think it'll do anything game mechanically to stop any those other things. No fewer people lost. No more Cardassian operations interrupted. Nothing, nada. Doesn't affect rolls at all. All it means is we get two or three extra sentences in the end of the year intelligence report.

If two or three extra sentences of narrative are worth it to you, by all means vote to get it a little faster. Me, I'd rather push something that will aid ship responses.
 
Did @OneirosTheWriter really put in all that work, and we're still going to have a research turn where it's near-unanimously voting for the same plan?

I mean, hell, don't vote for my plan if you don't like but there must be some kind of argument for some sort of alternative. Please someone make one!
 
What are your thoughts on this?
Just to finally track back to this...

Refit projects cost no additional RP and tie up no additional research teams, complete earlier, provide stat points in the space of a year of dock time without increasing crew requirements, and allow older ships to remain relevant, and stave off the period where I start getting tempted to hit them with reliability problems like what happened to the old Soyuz.

So, yes, they are expensive in terms of political will.
 
I like [] Base Plan Renaissance and Counter Intel except for the part about Klingon analysis
 
By the way, I like Decisive Battle and Forward Defense for the Offensive and Defensive Doctrines.

Decisive Battle I like all the Federation United Fleet stuff, with the United Fleet having its own roving sector to seek out and steamroll opposition. Also the fact that Member World fleets get in on the action. I like Forward Defense because it covers a more limited area, letting us know where to load our best ships for the best Defense.
 
I like [] Base Plan Renaissance and Counter Intel except for the part about Klingon analysis

You could always vote for my plan, which both does Cardassian Counter-Intel and really pushes our Fleet Desig Doctrine to completion with technologies we will continue to improve instead of possibly wasting an action on Klingon Analysis.
 
[X] Base Plan Renaissance and Counter Intel

Since there's a good chance we can get decisive battle in this plan, though I might switch if BV puts in DB into his plan
 
Just to finally track back to this...

Refit projects cost no additional RP and tie up no additional research teams, complete earlier, provide stat points in the space of a year of dock time without increasing crew requirements, and allow older ships to remain relevant, and stave off the period where I start getting tempted to hit them with reliability problems like what happened to the old Soyuz.

So, yes, they are expensive in terms of political will.

I do hope this process can get revamped later. The way ship refit projects work so differently than ship design projects is jarring, and introduces these confusing asymmetrical costs. I would love to have the opportunity to have refit projects use our research/design teams (complete with actual research) at a reduced pp cost. Right now, I have to try justifying it all in my head, like handwaving some of the pp cost to be an implicit temporary design team.
 
Did @OneirosTheWriter really put in all that work, and we're still going to have a research turn where it's near-unanimously voting for the same plan?
He himself pitched a lot of the work as investment for the future- because right now there are still a lot of techs where the tree hasn't split fully. Twenty or thirty years down the road we may see a lot more contention.

EDIT:
Although honestly, the research options are so dizzyingly big, with potentially dozens of teams on dozens of topics, that it's a "hard" topic to keep track of. It's a lot easier to have a contentious vote on a subject where there is only one thing to decide on, like "turn left or turn right." When there are twenty different things to decide upon, and most of them seem like good ideas without an obvious downside, there isn't enough margin of opportunity cost to make it easy for people to get contentious.
 
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I do hope this process can get revamped later. The way ship refit projects work so differently than ship design projects is jarring, and introduces these confusing asymmetrical costs. I would love to have the opportunity to have refit projects use our research/design teams (complete with actual research) at a reduced pp cost. Right now, I have to try justifying it all in my head, like handwaving some of the pp cost to be an implicit temporary design team.
Well, whenever I can get a refit spreadsheet further up my agenda. Will always be a bit sticky with the canon ships whose stat blocks were created before the spreadsheet.
 
Explanation of choices:
ToC Starship Frames-Starship construction is a key tech as it not only reduces frame weight (one of the three big weight hogs) it also has later techs that reduce the build length of ships
24th Century Escort-amongst the escort techs this seemed to have the most benefit with both a reduction to warp core weight and the SR cost of escorts
2310 Long Range Sensor-leads to bonuses to mission roles and also unlocks starbase sensors which increases defense of starbases and outposts as well as increasing likelihood of events, at the same time we have improved our event rolls
2310 Shipboard Computing-the key to this track of computers is that it leads to the automation techs which reduce crew requirements, this line also provides a boost to the power of the warp core, allowing us to get by with a smaller size thus saving on weight there
2310 Computing Installations-this leads to colony cores which give us +1 PP per colony (we have 11 now), that alone makes it worth it, it also provide some buffs to RP (which we don't really need) but also gives bonus points each time we do ship design research
ToC Mineral Tech-finishing off the base tech here, Mineral tech does what it says on the tin, increases our resources from events and colonies so always useful
2310s Deflector Shields-this branch of shields improved all aspect of shields (weight, power, reliability) and has shield regen as well, the other side improves defense but I felt that shields was a stronger investment
2310 Warp Cores-this is the branch that increases warp core power, decreases weight and SR cost (and warp core is a big part of the SR cost), though we are likely to bounce between the three paths as they are all solid investments
Klingon Research-Default choice as I did not want to put an offensive doctrine here since we had not decided on one.
2300s Xenopsych-Once this completes we unlock the different branches and Spock finishes all of the techs here this turn to unlock those branches. The boost to diplo rolls and .05 more crew from each affiliate are nice adds. Going down the branches that give us rolls with non affiliates and improves our diplo bonuses is key to the Federation gaining more members
24th Century Trauma Medicine-Starfleet Medical is back on Medical tech as we have another personal tech team and only one choice for personal. Trauma medicine is all about boosting crew survival, though this is one of the techs we are likely to go for completing all the choices at each tier level before advancing.
Renissance Techs-We wanted to start the project so lets start so we can get them out as soon as possible
Cardassian Research-Four good bonuses against the Cardassinas one for intel and three for combat all can be done in two years, extra dodge vs Cardassians means less chance of taking damage giving us better survivability to win or at least last long enough to flee
Way of the Giant-Of the three, the boost to explorer research (+1 more to each tech) and the PP reduction seemed the one I want first
2310's Message Security-the first of the intel techs in comms, this leads to the rest and anything to reduce the effectiveness of cardassian intel.
Way of the Elephant-This is the branch of the lone ranger with the combat bonuses and since we are likely to be outnumbered due to our emphasis on Explorer class ships lets get the bonuses. Also gives our Explorer Corp even more survival
ToC Personal Tech- The first tier that unlocks all the personal tech, it has some good bonuses scattered through the tree so lets start unlocking them
ToC Weapons-First weapons tech that unlocks the rest, improves the combat score by reducing power and weight required, increasing reliability, chance to bypass shields on a hit, all around good stuff that we want
 
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