Augument Tech: 20th century humanity fucked up, humanity convinced everyone else not to touch is.

IIRC, genetic augment research isn't necessarily banned in the Federation. Obviously, extremely dangerous tech like engineering a biophage would be prohibited as a Federal rule, but I'm not sure if augments fall under that category. The vast majority of member worlds, definitely including Earth, would ban augment research. But there might still be member worlds that don't explicitly ban it, even if such research would be frowned upon and receive little to no support. (And no doubt Starfleet Intelligence will keep an eye out.)

It's just that the Federation has mandated that Starfleet will not accept augments nor do any research in it or other forbidden techs, and thus it's not gonna happen in this quest. With that said, research into non-augment genetic engineering is allowed as a branch of medicine.

Do we go with the 'Enterprise must always be a flagship' idea?

I'd rather not treat the Enterprise so specially, other than always trying to have an EC ship called Enterprise in the fleet. It may have a history, but Starfleet shouldn't treat it as a special snowflake relative to other EC ships and invent special rules for it. I feel that would diminish the history of other ship names.
 
Okay research we have 13 remainder 6, so as long we get 3 RP points in the explorer log for Q2 we can have all 14 activated. And as we will have the income to keep 9 teams activated plus any from new affiliates and explorer logs I see no reason to bank any for next turn.

San Francisco Fleet Yards: Explorer Design- Turn of the Century Starship +8
40 Erdani A Shipyards: Turn of the Century Escort +6
Vulcan Science Academy: Sensors- Early 24th Century Long-Range Sensors +9
Starfleet Science Academy : Comms- Early 24th Century Message Security +6
Daystrom Institute: Computing- Early 24th Century Computing Installations +8
Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science: Mineral Science- Turn of the Century Mineral Technology +4
Andorian Academy: Shields- Early 24th Century Deflector Shields +6
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: Warp Tech- Early 24th Century Warp Cores +6
Starfleet Tactical Command - Games & Theory Division: Offensive Doctrine- Decisive Battle +7
Spock: 2300s Xenopsychology +10
Starfleet Medical Command: Medical- Early 24th Century Trauma Medicine +6
Utopia Planitia Design Group: Cruiser Design- Turn of Century Explorer +10
Lt-Cdr Kuznetsova's Tiger Team: Foreign Analysis- Cardassian Research +9
Admiral Lathriss: Fleet Design- Lone Ranger +9 (finishing it off unlocks bonuses for research)

Skill ups:
40 Erdani A Shipyards-new skill of 3
Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science- new skill of 3
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems- new skill of 4

Some notes: Chose to finish first level of escort and almost finish first level of explorer, with the San Francisco Drive Yards or the Yoyodyne Propulsion systems we should move one to the starship construction tech once they finish off their current tech.

For computers, Installations has research and intel bonuses so easy pick, communications is for the various intel bonuses. Minerals was chosen to continue to get bonuses to resource production allowing us to produce more ships and better quality ships. Spock is easy, better diplomacy and more trained crew is good, the other techs just icing on the cake. I really think we need to keep spock on xenopsych at all times as there are a lot of good bonuses there.

For warp tech, warp cores reduces warp core weight, gives us a better ratio on SR cost, increases power output and increases reliability. As it, along with hull and frame are the major weight constraints being able to shave some weight here will help our hull designs a lot. As a bonus it also has a tech to reduce warp core breach.

Cruiser Engineering was chosen as that reduces hull weight, gives better shields and increases reliability. Tiger team on Cardassian research to minimize number of turns for the various tech. With that Tactical Command would be better getting us started on our offensive doctrine as it is 50 points just to unlock it so 4 turns (+5 from inspiration each turn and the last will be at skill 4 so get to 50 exactly). Finally Lathriss to finalize the Lone Ranger Doctrine so we can start researching the good stuff in it.

Medical Command was figuring which gave us the best boost to crew survival between the med techs and personal tech. Vulcan Science Academy had to pick one of the two sensor techs and improved science weight and reliability plus a +1 bonus to mapping missions seemed better than combat weight savings, improved cloak detection and a bonus to non explorer resource gathering. Finally with the Andorian Academy Deflector shields has a lot of good tech for improving the shield aspect, while navigation deflectors improves defense and the shield bonuses seem better right now.

Edit: Swapped out cruiser research and moved utopia to do Explorer research and San Francisco Yards to do Starship Construction per suggestion from @aledeth
 
Last edited:
Omake - Welcome to the USS Sappho, bro - IronWolf
The lounge on USS Sappho was a din of noise and shouting, much to the chagrin of Commander Abigail Taggart. She was currently pressed against the bar by a crush of beer-swilling and sweaty men, several of them in various states of dress. Taggart had noted with some distaste earlier that the room had, indeed, been expanded in violation of regulations. But she was glad for it as another group of men shoved their way in, several of them showing off rippling muscle,. Although not so glad that the tea that she was gripping was nearly spilled on her, to say nothing about the close calls she was having with the spillage from the overflowing glasses around her.
Most of the crew was concentrated on the center of the room, where an arm wrestling match proved to be a generator of continual shouts of encouragement or disappointment. From what Taggart had gathered from her quick perusal of the ship's roster, the contest was between the Betazed Chief Engineer, Lieutenant Commander Kole, and the ship's Orion Counselor (and only other woman on board), Lieutenant Jelanna Ye Holena. The two, were, of course, shirtless. Their exposed muscles trembled with the effort of trying to break the stalemate they were locked in, cheers erupting whenever their hands moved one way or the other. The candidates themselves made no sounds, because in an apparent rules variation that made Taggart feel slightly queasy, members of the crew were funneling synthale into their mouths. Taggart wondered if the Chief Medical Officer would approve... until she realized he was one of the people controlling the supply of beer into the funnels. She sighed heavily, moving her arm out of the way as an ensign gesticulated wildly with delight as Jelanna seemed to temporarily gain the upper hand.
This is not what she expected from her posting as USS Sappho's new XO. She'd debated with herself for a long time about leaving Courageous for the unremarkable vessel, knowing that her chances of advancement on the Explorer would be more limited than if she accepted a promotion on a smaller, non-explorer corps ship. Besides, her role-model (and, honestly, giant crush) Victoria Eaton had departed, and despite the fact that Ajam seemed like a nice lady, it simply wasn't the same. So when USS Sappho had been reporting as having an opening for an XO, she took it and dedicated herself to bringing Eaton's sense of poise, grace, and quiet dignity to her new posting.
So far that looked only like a bitter fantasy.
Firstly, from the name she had expected… significantly more women. Looked forward to it - in fact, that is what drew her to this particular Constellation in the first place. And on a quick glance, the crew manifest backed that up. Maybe a high number of male pronouns for the Andorians, but more Ashleys, Joyces, Alexes and Jamies than you could shake a stick at. Gender neutral names might be more politically correct, Taggart mused sourly, but it had allowed her to be tragically misled.
So, instead, there was only her and Lieutenant Holena. Taggart had tried to gently broach the subject of Holena's relationship status when she bumped into her in the ship's gym earlier this morning. But all Holena had done was laugh, and then immediately launched herself into a set of bicep curls that continued until Taggart walked away. So she was considering that a 'no'.
She suspected those curls were coming in handy now, as the tide of the contest was now firmly in the Orion woman's favor. The crowd was going insane, and one Andorian Ensign ripped his shirt off in emotional agony at seeing Kole on the path to defeat. He assuaged his agony by quickly downing a synthale that was passed to him. Taggart squinted at him in disapproval. As soon as she could actually finish her tea, she would clear out.
Then, the activity in the room came to an abrupt halt as the lounge door slid open. Holena's eyes shifted to see who had entered and she spluttered her synthale. Kole took advantage of her momentary distraction to slam her hand back, the table rocking under the force. Then, he turned to look too. Taggart herself could just make out who walked into the room -- oh, thank God. It was the Captain, a short-set Tellarite. By the way the room was acting, she knew that he was about to put an end to this unruliness. She'd have to apologize later for not bringing it under control herself. But for the time being, she took the opportunity to sip her green tea in peace.
The Tellarite walked over to the now-finished arm-wrestling match, looking at Holena and Kole. He sniffed disapprovingly, and then looked backwards at the Andorian ensign who had been handed a fresh glass of Synthale. He took the glass from the suddenly-still ensign's hand and sniffed it. Then, he upended the whole glass, dumping its contents onto the carpeted floor at an agonizing rate.
"Do you think this," he gestured angrily at the arm-wrestling table, "Is acceptable, let alone this swill?"
Taggart beamed at the display of discipline and -- why was Holena smiling. Why did she look like she was on the verge of laughter?
"This stuff isn't fit to serve to a Klingon!" The Tellarite boomed, "Ensign th'Inzker, bring out the good stuff!"
The crew murmured with excitement and Taggart's heart sank as the aforementioned Ensign and several crewmen carted in kegs on antigrav sleds. Several of the shiny barrels were covered in Vulcan script. The Captain -- whose name was Vol Chad, because of course it was, slapped the kegs. "This here, boys, is only the finest stimulant-fortified wine, brewed by the best chemist-monks on P'Jem - only the best for our new XO!" He gestured at Taggart, and the crew turned and applauded. She smiled thinly back, and it turned into a frown as someone's wild applause caused her to spill her mostly-full cup on herself. Captain Chad didn't notice her discomfort. "And when you're all hopped up on whatever exotic caffeine strain they they put in this, you can join us one deck down for a real sport, not this arm wrestling shit." th'Inzker opened up a crate and tossed a volleyball to Chad as he pulled off his jacket. Taggart had no desire for the male form but she could tell the Captain was firmly in the territory of 'shredded,' and he easily caught the tossed ball. "Simulated beach is all ready, boys and girls! Let's go!"
The crew erupted into wild cheers and began to hoist several of the kegs until Holena slammed her fist down on the table to call for silence. She posed precariously, one foot on the table, one on the top of her wobbling seat as she pointed at Chad, "Sir! You are forgetting our sacred duties!" She twisted, her arm arcing to point at Taggart, "She must undergo... the keg stand."
"No thanks." Taggart said, flatly.
Holena blinked in surprise as an awkward hush settled over the crew, "But it's --"
"I will do it in her stead," Chad said, abruptly. He tossed the volleyball back to th'Inzker, who whooped his approval.
"DO IT! DO IT SIR!"
The crowd's attention was now firmly off Taggart as the Captain was lifted aloft and turned upside down, the noise deafening. She couldn't continue to watch this absurdity, so she turned back to the bar. Might as well order a tea in a secure mug and beat a hasty retreat. She looked up to see the bartender was a Vulcan. A Vulcan with a garish shirt, the collar on it popped high. A cap on his head was twisted sideways. Taggart just raised her eyebrow at him.
"It is only logical to attempt to 'blend in' for the sake of group cohesion," the Vulcan explained, before adding, "Bro."

This was going to be a long assignment.​
 
Last edited:
IIRC, genetic augment research isn't necessarily banned in the Federation. Obviously, extremely dangerous tech like engineering a biophage would be prohibited as a Federal rule, but I'm not sure if augments fall under that category. The vast majority of member worlds, definitely including Earth, would ban augment research. But there might still be member worlds that don't explicitly ban it, even if such research would be frowned upon and receive little to no support. (And no doubt Starfleet Intelligence will keep an eye out.)

It's just that the Federation has mandated that Starfleet will not accept augments nor do any research in it or other forbidden techs, and thus it's not gonna happen in this quest. With that said, research into non-augment genetic engineering is allowed as a branch of medicine.



I'd rather not treat the Enterprise so specially, other than always trying to have an EC ship called Enterprise in the fleet. It may have a history, but Starfleet shouldn't treat it as a special snowflake relative to other EC ships and invent special rules for it. I feel that would diminish the history of other ship names.

Look up the Canon history of USS Hood sometime, she's a damn impressive ship. And quite possibly the only Survivor of Wolf 359
 
If we are relaunching Constitutions, we may want to look into reusing their old names:

Constitution class gives us the Ahwahneee, Constellation, Defiant, Eagle, Emden, Engeavour, Enterprise, Excalibur, Exeter, Hood, Intrepid, Korolev, Lexington, and Potemkin.

The original Constellation, Intrepid, and Defiant were all lost or destroyed, so salvaged ships were either not them, or replacements of the same name.

Carolina, Farragut, Kongo, Merrimac, Olympia, Republic, Valiant, and Yorktown are also names that were likely Constitutions.
On the other hand, most of the ones that are not already in use elsewhere are explicitly Human names.
Since we're "relaunching" Connies as ConnieBees (in the sense of peeling the nametags off and sticking them on new ships with some of the old furniture), I recommend using Connie-names, though we can certainly take inspiration from secondary canon sources and whatnot.

Meanwhile, we start using nonhuman names more or less exclusively in the Centaurs and heavily in the Excelsiors. And make sure to show props to various alien cultural heroes when we get around to commissioning Renaissance-class cruisers. So they're being respected, but at the same time the history and tradition of Starfleet's 23rd century background is respected.

How does that sound?

Remember, you can pitch it as "the past of Starfleet has been very much a human thing, and humans have made great contributions that made our Federation what it is today. That is why the Constitutions are named as they are. The future of Starfleet is one of infinite diversity in infinite combinations, and that is why the ships that are still going to be in active service in 2350 are named as they are."

Honestly, lighter but more numerous Light Cruisers would be good if we could get the numbers to organize 'Wolf Packs' of them. that said, are Cloaking Devices possible eventually?
The problem is that requiring ships to travel in pairs makes them a lot less useful than ships which can stand up for themselves alone. Like, a LOT.

You may well end up in a situation where it takes two Constellations or similar ships to do the job of a superior cruiser (like a Rennie or a Connie) that is cheaper than the pair of Constellations, takes less total time to build, AND has lower manpower requirements.

Also, if you build ships small and cheap, they are disproportionately likely to get blown up or take heavy crew casualties in large scale combat, as we saw over Kadesh against the biophage. Since we're trying to build up a durable, permanent fleet and avoid heavy casualties, that's bad from our point of view.

What a wierd list.
Look at the different reasons for banning:
Augument Tech: 20th century humanity fucked up, humanity convinced everyone else not to touch is.
Time Travel: Do not play with this shit unless the result of not playing with it is everyone dying anyway.
Genesis: Fatally flawed for terraforming. Perfect if you want a planetkiller.
M5: One experiment went wrong because they used someone KNOWN to be unstable as the template for the AI.
Cloaking: Pure politics.
Transwarp: Didn't work when we tried in a couple decades ago.

So only two things on the list have actual good reason for perma-ban. Transwarp is temp-banned for engineering reasons, the rest is just political.
Attempts by other powers to augment themselves ALSO tend to end badly, and if someone actually succeeded they would in effect be turning their own species into a master race that would dominate other species, which is not in the collective interests of a multi-species federation.

Genesis is extremely dangerous to meddle with and uses exotic, unstable substances. Also its ability to kill literally everyone on a whole planet with a single shot is extremely destabilizing. People will attack you rather than let you have such a dangerous thing.

The M5 computer is VERY far from the only example of unstable or hostile AI technology in Star Trek. Anyone who tells you "we're going to build robot battleships but THIS time we'll do it RIGHT" is someone you should not hand control of a robot battleship to.

Transwarp drive is probably extremely expensive, and it may well be there are theoretical reasons to think that developing it is simply impossible for current technology- note that the Federation never did succeed in developing it up to and into the TNG timeframe, even as the conventional warp drives of their ships got considerably more capable.

Time travel is insanely dangerous, literally the most powerful weapon imaginable in the wrong hands... and the Federation already has an entire organization dedicated to protecting its timeline (including agents from its own future who will do so). There is literally no reason for them to push that area of research.

So all in all, you are being foolishly dismissive of why these extremely destabilizing and/or dangerous technologies are not researched.

you might be right, now onto a topic I tried to raise earlier:

how are we going to handle the Enterprise's 'evolution'? Do we go with the 'Enterprise must always be a flagship' idea? or are we going to wear the Enterprise of the time ragged before replacing it at a natural time.
Standing Starfleet policy seems to be "don't decommission/rename an existing Enterprise just because ships of a new class become available."

Both Enterprise-nil and Enterprise-A remained in service as Connies of that name, even after the first Excelsior(s) were commissioned.

the second option is more natural, probably cheaper and less money wasted on a 'Mayfly Enterprise'(IE a Galaxy Enterprise that is replaced within ten years by a Sovvie-prise), and allows a good deal more flexibility with where to place the Enterprise(at first mind you, it will lose utility as ship technology marches)...
If this were actually a problem, the obvious move would be to rename the current Enterprise and name a new ship of the new class Enterprise. However, Starfleet hasn't really had to bother with this.

Enterprises tend to lead active service lives, and so far of the seven ships of the name (NX-01 through NCC-1701-E), AT LEAST four were lost in action. NX-01 and the Enterprise-A were presumably retired, and Enterprise-E was still in service as of the last primary canon works in Star Trek. So most of the time, the decision to commission a new Enterprise was made for Starfleet by default.

The ideal one in my mind is the first one, as an Enterprise and any bonus' associated stay on the best classes and are where they are most valuable...and we may have problems keeping good captains on an Enterprise that's been slowly phased out of the dangerous duties is spurts...and honestly, I think Enterprise Captains like Kirk, Picard, and Nash are the best we have; they have a connection to the chair and the ship; and it would be a shame to chase Nash and other such special captains away by relegating them to patrols and boarder defense full time. I will say I want Nash to be the first captain of the Enterprise-C, but that's just me.
Put this way. If this ever becomes an actual problem, we can talk about how to deal with it.

"Historically," the Enterprise-B was apparently lost in action to a space plague around 2330, roughly the same time the Ambassadors started coming into service. Hopefully, things will be Different this time.
 
Okay research we have 13 remainder 6, so as long we get 3 RP points in the explorer log for Q2 we can have all 14 activated. And as we will have the income to keep 9 teams activated plus any from new affiliates and explorer logs I see no reason to bank any for next turn.

San Francisco Fleet Yards: Explorer Design- Turn of Century Explorer +8
40 Erdani A Shipyards: Turn of the Century Escort +6
Vulcan Science Academy: Sensors- Early 24th Century Long-Range Sensors +9
Starfleet Science Academy : Comms- Early 24th Century Message Security +6
Daystrom Institute: Computing- Early 24th Century Computing Installations +8
Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science: Mineral Science- Turn of the Century Mineral Technology +4
Andorian Academy: Shields- Early 24th Century Deflector Shields +6
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: Warp Tech- Early 24th Century Warp Cores +6
Starfleet Tactical Command - Games & Theory Division: Offensive Doctrine- Decisive Battle +7
Spock: 2300s Xenopsychology +10
Starfleet Medical Command: Medical- Early 24th Century Trauma Medicine +6
Utopia Planitia Design Group: Cruiser Design- Early 24th Century Cruiser Engineering Package +10
Lt-Cdr Kuznetsova's Tiger Team: Foreign Analysis- Cardassian Research +9
Admiral Lathriss: Fleet Design- Lone Ranger +9 (finishing it off unlocks bonuses for research)

Skill ups:
40 Erdani A Shipyards-new skill of 3
Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science- new skill of 3
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems- new skill of 4

Some notes: Chose to finish first level of escort and almost finish first level of explorer, with the San Francisco Drive Yards or the Yoyodyne Propulsion systems we should move one to the starship construction tech once they finish off their current tech.

For computers, Installations has research and intel bonuses so easy pick, communications is for the various intel bonuses. Minerals was chosen to continue to get bonuses to resource production allowing us to produce more ships and better quality ships. Spock is easy, better diplomacy and more trained crew is good, the other techs just icing on the cake. I really think we need to keep spock on xenopsych at all times as there are a lot of good bonuses there.

For warp tech, warp cores reduces warp core weight, gives us a better ratio on SR cost, increases power output and increases reliability. As it, along with hull and frame are the major weight constraints being able to shave some weight here will help our hull designs a lot. As a bonus it also has a tech to reduce warp core breach.

Cruiser Engineering was chosen as that reduces hull weight, gives better shields and increases reliability. Tiger team on Cardassian research to minimize number of turns for the various tech. With that Tactical Command would be better getting us started on our offensive doctrine as it is 50 points just to unlock it so 4 turns (+5 from inspiration each turn and the last will be at skill 4 so get to 50 exactly). Finally Lathriss to finalize the Lone Ranger Doctrine so we can start researching the good stuff in it.

Medical Command was figuring which gave us the best boost to crew survival between the med techs and personal tech. Vulcan Science Academy had to pick one of the two sensor techs and improved science weight and reliability plus a +1 bonus to mapping missions seemed better than combat weight savings, improved cloak detection and a bonus to non explorer resource gathering. Finally with the Andorian Academy Deflector shields has a lot of good tech for improving the shield aspect, while navigation deflectors improves defense and the shield bonuses seem better right now.
Cruiser Engineering doesn't actually help us for the next few turns since the Rennaisance design is an arbitrary project. It'd be better IMO to have Utopia Planitia do Explorer design and let SF Fleet Yards start on Ship Construction.
 
Standing Starfleet policy seems to be "don't decommission/rename an existing Enterprise just because ships of a new class become available."

Both Enterprise-nil and Enterprise-A remained in service as Connies of that name, even after the first Excelsior(s) were commissioned.

If this were actually a problem, the obvious move would be to rename the current Enterprise and name a new ship of the new class Enterprise. However, Starfleet hasn't really had to bother with this.

Enterprises tend to lead active service lives, and so far of the seven ships of the name (NX-01 through NCC-1701-E), AT LEAST four were lost in action. NX-01 and the Enterprise-A were presumably retired, and Enterprise-E was still in service as of the last primary canon works in Star Trek. So most of the time, the decision to commission a new Enterprise was made for Starfleet by default.

Put this way. If this ever becomes an actual problem, we can talk about how to deal with it.

"Historically," the Enterprise-B was apparently lost in action to a space plague around 2330, roughly the same time the Ambassadors started coming into service. Hopefully, things will be Different this time.
honestly, you guys have me convinced really, and i'll go with that as long as the ship doesn't stay around long enough to be a 'Shit Detail' ship.
 
Cruiser Engineering doesn't actually help us for the next few turns since the Rennaisance design is an arbitrary project. It'd be better IMO to have Utopia Planitia do Explorer design and let SF Fleet Yards start on Ship Construction.
I suppose it comes down to which class do the ship designers think we are going to have a custom design for first between cruiser and explorer. Another possibility is do the escort this turn with 40 A erdani which will finish the first tier then move that over to warp tech and move Yoyodyne Propulsion onto starship construction. I guess that needs some feedback from the designers.
 
I suppose it comes down to which class do the ship designers think we are going to have a customer for first between cruiser and explorer.
Definitely Explorer. With us grabbing the Renaissance next year, and it operating off arbitrary research, cruiser research won't be useful until, if we do at all, decide to build a heavy cruiser. Meanwhile from what I've seen mentioned people are planning on starting the Ambassador, or similar Explorer, in the next couple years.
 
I'd honestly prefer to start work on ALL the refits to our existing ships first, but yeah, I could see starting the Ambassador project within the next five years or so, if we don't pressingly need political will to deal with other problems.
 
Definitely Explorer. With us grabbing the Renaissance next year, and it operating off arbitrary research, cruiser research won't be useful until, if we do at all, decide to build a heavy cruiser. Meanwhile from what I've seen mentioned people are planning on starting the Ambassador, or similar Explorer, in the next couple years.
More like five years or so, but yeah, we're pretty much in agreement that Explorer comes next so that we can actually build heavy cruisers without the Council giving us grief
 
Okay, then @aledeth suggestions for dropping the cruisers research to move utopia to explorer and san Francisco yards to starship construction would be the best solution.
 
Definitely Explorer. With us grabbing the Renaissance next year, and it operating off arbitrary research, cruiser research won't be useful until, if we do at all, decide to build a heavy cruiser. Meanwhile from what I've seen mentioned people are planning on starting the Ambassador, or similar Explorer, in the next couple years.
This. We've been told that making a SuperCruiser that out-stats our Explorers is "going to have the Federation Council gnawing out our skulls until we get the Ambassador running" so it's best to avoid the Zombie Apocalypse and get the Ambassador going first.

Plus, most of the Heavy Cruiser designs don't need much extra research at all anyway. It's the Ambassador that's tricky to make right now.
 
Attempts by other powers to augment themselves ALSO tend to end badly, and if someone actually succeeded they would in effect be turning their own species into a master race that would dominate other species, which is not in the collective interests of a multi-species federation.

Genesis is extremely dangerous to meddle with and uses exotic, unstable substances. Also its ability to kill literally everyone on a whole planet with a single shot is extremely destabilizing. People will attack you rather than let you have such a dangerous thing.

The M5 computer is VERY far from the only example of unstable or hostile AI technology in Star Trek. Anyone who tells you "we're going to build robot battleships but THIS time we'll do it RIGHT" is someone you should not hand control of a robot battleship to.

Transwarp drive is probably extremely expensive, and it may well be there are theoretical reasons to think that developing it is simply impossible for current technology- note that the Federation never did succeed in developing it up to and into the TNG timeframe, even as the conventional warp drives of their ships got considerably more capable.

Time travel is insanely dangerous, literally the most powerful weapon imaginable in the wrong hands... and the Federation already has an entire organization dedicated to protecting its timeline (including agents from its own future who will do so). There is literally no reason for them to push that area of research.

So all in all, you are being foolishly dismissive of why these extremely destabilizing and/or dangerous technologies are not researched.
You do realize that my "foolishly dismissive" opinion agrees with you on Time Travel, Genesis, and Transwarp? Transwarp is possible. This is canon. The question is only when it's worth expending the resources to try again, and you'll note that I said to leave that to RnD. I said to save travel for when it can't make things WORSE. And the only difference on our stances on Genesis is phrasing.

As for the remainder, It's canon that the M5 failed at least in part because they used a mentally unstable dude as the template. And the rest is engineering idiocy. There's precisely zero evidence that the tech doesn't work when people don't do moronic things like use an unstable programmer instead of a starship captain as the template. It's a tech of the week in TOS, so it not reappearing isn't saying anything. And there's no evidence that it's even particularly dangerous to test if the program doesn't do moronic shit like run the first test with a capital ship that only has software lockouts preventing live weapons fire. Or not have people in place for a hard shutdown. Run the test on a Miranda that's had the the power conduits for full-power shots removed and has preplaced remote shutdowns, and if it does go wrong you are out a few high-spec computers at worst.

In fact, the most parsimonious explanation for an M5 based off an unstable computer programmer, not a starship captain, actually working just fine as a tactical control system save for mistaking an exercise for real combat is that the tech works just fine and simply copied the mental issues of the template.

Edit: It certainly means it's canon that the general theory behind the M5 is sound.

As for augmentation? That's an argument against comic book logic all or nothing superman genetic enhancements, not enhancement in general. Again, shit implementation tainting a perfectly viable idea.
 
Omake - The Gap - Briefvoice
So a funny thing about our Ship Design Bureau. Have you seen... the Gap?

The Gap

The cutting beam entered the side of the warp nacelle with surgical precision, slowly moving up and down until the next ring in the series had been safely severed and pulled away by an enormous mechanical clamp. So the Soyuz continued to slowly die. Or perhaps it had died when the crew left for the final time, and this was nothing but a scavenger eating the corpse.

Vice Admiral Rinias ch'Vohlet wondered why his mind was going to such depressing metaphors. Getting old, maybe. Even after a year, he was still vaguely surprised still to be in Starfleet. His desk had all but been packed when a new Vice Admiralty was suddenly created. He still might not have applied, but his wife had demanded it; told him that second careers were all very well but he'd regret not trying to stay in the fleet. She would know, never having wavered from her first calling.

Despite his long career, this was the first time he'd seen the deliberate scrapping of a starship. Not written off for damage too extensive to repair nor mothballed after a long service, but just... cut up. For parts. His predecessor at the head of Research Command, Rear Admiral Sanik, would call his feelings of guilt illogical. Would be right to do so. Nevertheless it was those vague feelings of guilt that had driven him down to watch the process in the middle of the night shift, the only time he could get away from work. A time when almost no one was around. A time when-

Oh. Rinias realized someone was sneaking up behind him. He felt their presence by air currents on his antenna, the movement of vibration on the ground giving him an intuitive sense of their velocity. About 3 seconds away, sacrificing speed for stealth. Long enough for Rinias to sacrifice a full second of his time to spot a blurred reflection in a nearby piece of reflective plating. Human or Vulcan, probably. Something raised in the right hand, can't tell what. Might be wearing a Starfleet light duty uniform, but of course that's what anyone trying to sneak around here would wear.

Two seconds. Tense muscles, inhale, suddenly drop forward. Normally a bad strategy in a fight to go vertical, but he wasn't doing that. Inverting instead, all weight in a handstand for a fraction of a second before pushing back to strike at the interloper with the soles of his boots, least vulnerable part of his body. He made contact just as planned, knocking the other back staggering into a wall.

Twist turn, move forward. A human after all. Apply one hand under chin for control and lift slightly to slam head into- Oh.

"Commander Bertholt, what in the world did you think you were doing sneaking up on me like that?" asked Rinias. He didn't release his grip.

The other man at least managed to collect himself with a speed becoming of a Starfleet officer. "I- I didn't mean to sneak up. It's just- I wasn't sure I should even be trying to talk to you, so I walking softly because- I suppose so I could turn and change my mind at the last second if I couldn't go through with it."

This was Commander Reginald Betholt, Deputy Director of the San Francisco Design Bureau. A human half Rinias's age. Maybe less. Rinias only knew him to talk to, being the man was three removes down the chain of command. Frizzy hair that spread wildly. Dark skin. He recalled that Admiral Sanik had referred to Bertholt as having 'a genius for organization that overcomes his inability to correctly read common social cues'. He noticed that the object still clutched in Bertholt's hand was in fact a data pad and not any sort of weapon.

Rinias relaxed his hold and took a step back. "And now we see that lacking courage of commitment has result in embarrassment for us both," he told his subordinate.

"How did you do that?" asked Bertholt.

"I believe you saw how I did that," said Rinias, carefully not rubbing his aching forearms. One didn't sleep with a Grandmaster of Andor's most revered martial art for forty years without picking up a few things... but that didn't mean his 67 year old body wasn't going to pay for this later. With all the dignity he could muster, Rinias asked, "Why are you here Commander, and what do you want."

Bertholt rubbed his head nervously. "I've been sending memos... reports.... write-ups... for... for months now, but I know that Admiral Sanik is ignoring them all. Captain Sidana humors me by letting them go through, but she's far too busy prepping the docks for the Centaurs to seriously back me up. Rear Admiral Sanik doesn't want to hear what I'm saying, and you know how he can get when he's made up his mind that your concerns are 'illogical'. I caught on some logs that you had written yourself a pass for tonight, and I thought- Vice Admiral Chee-velt is in charge of the whole Ship Design Bureau and this is something that only you could act on anyway, so what not take the chance and talk to you direct? Why not talk to you about the Gap, Admiral sir?"

Rinias's antenna twitched when Bertholt completely butchered the pronunciation of his name, a name that he knew for a fact Bertholt must hear a dozen times a day. This guy. Still, curiosity demanded he hear whatever it was that Sanik was so dedicated to ignoring. If it wasn't worth Rinias's time, there was probably a mining colony somewhere that needed an officer like Bertholt supervising. "So talk."

"We need a Weapons development team," said Bertholt. He paused, then waved his hands as if to indicate 'halt' or 'reverse' or 'I don't know how to conversationally backtrack without waving my hands like a bird'. "Right now we have technical teams with the ability to do true innovation in just about all aspect of starship design and construction. Explorers, cruisers, escorts, sensors, shields, comms, computing... even things that are mission related rather than ship related like xenopsychology and personal scale equipment. They even stick us with the doctrine and foreign analysis teams, sir. We can do everything except-" He stopped meaningfully.

"Yes, a weapons team, you rather spoiled the punchline on that one Commander," said Rinias dryly. "Is this supposed to be some sort of revelation? I assure you, I have an excellent grasp on the teams under my purview. In fact, I was just recently thinking that the Tellar Prime Academy of Mineral Science could use someone on one of their remote installations. I-"

Bertholt must have sensed his window closing because he interrupted without any pretense of politeness. "You don't understand, it's creating a gap. A hole in our designs- many holes, small ones, that can have fatal consequences in ways you can't imagine. Ways I can't imagine."

Fatal consequences? Rinias gave the young human his best glare. "You bought yourself another minute. Explain."

"Even when a team isn't on a big project, their expertise is available. They review the work of other teams, they can be tapped for knowledge and experience, they can answer questions and ask questions no one else knew to ask. Systems on a ship are interrelated. They all affect each other. Shields feed off the power generated by the warp core, sure that's obvious, but Medbay has to know what the navigational shields are letting through, sensors and comms are two sides of the same coin, everything affects everything else, I've been charting it, writing up patterns of internal communication, creating a three dimensional reputation of how design work flows through our system, using the internal resources of our experts and innovators even when those people supposedly aren't involved in the project at all." Berthold tapped his data pad and a three dimensional holographic display popped out of it.

Rinias studied it, read the legend, traced the latticework of internal communications sorted by subject matter and source. It was insanely complicated and yet intuitive to use. It was brilliant. And among the sparkling lines and weave of the work of his entire command.... among it was a dark place. Empty, with lines passing into it and fading out, representative of inquiries left unanswered. A hole.

A gap.

Bertholt sighed in relief seeing that Rinias was taking his creation seriously. "I started putting this together for my own understanding, because I wanted to know how the Design Bureau really works. I'm not... good with people, but I'm good at seeing patterns. Once I saw this one it was hard to unsee it."

Rinias waved the pad. "Why? We have plenty of technicians and engineers who could tell you all about phasers and photon torpedoes in detail. Just because we're not researching weapons heavily, how can it do this, whatever this is doing to our work?"

"Weapons are a core system of our ships, sir. I know Federation Council hopes hates to hear it, but they are. If there is a part of our ships we do not love, then we turn our eyes away and do not look at it. When we do not look at it, we do not understand its needs and its impacts on our designs. It creates gaps and flaws that make our ships weaker. Well, weaker in addition to the weakness of working with phasers behind the technological curve," said Bertholt.

"So when you tried to explain this to Admiral Sanik, did you start with your internal communications model or did you start with the part about how we lack love for our photon torpedoes?" asked Rinias.

"I, uh-"

"I think I know the answer. So you decided to go over his head."

"Not just that! I looked at your record, sir. I know decades ago you used to work with the Andorian Academy on shields. That's written plainly. But I worked it out; you weren't in the regular design group you worked in 'adversity testing'... you were trying to make phasers that would burn through the shields, weren't you? Or at least provide the regular team with enough challenge they had to stop you from burning through their shields. I knew you would understand; you know how you can't build great shields without understanding what they're supposed to defend against. Same principle applies. I knew I could come to you Admiral Chee-velt."

Wince.

"All right commander. I'm convinced you may be on to something; enough that I'm not having you removed from your posting for your blatant disregard for chain of command, anyway. I'm just... not sure what I can do about it.

Rinias continued on, more to get his own thoughts in order than to say anything to Berholt. "I only manage the Bureau. Only the Old Lady can ask the Federation Council for an expansion, and going to them and asking straight for a weapons team, well... I'm no politics expert but you don't get to be a Vice-Admiral without knowing some of what happens in those yearly dressing downs. There's a faction on the Council that would rip her a new one just for asking for a weapons team."

Betholt tried to say something and Rinias shushed him. This was not for commanders. He stopped talking aloud but continued thinking. Maybe this was an opportunity. If he and Kahurangi could demonstrate that lack of an expert weapons team was actually hindering Starfleet's primary mission, was making them worse explorers, even the Peace faction would have to accept it. Most of them were Vulcans and logic would dictate, after all. As long as you didn't start the explanation talking about love for phasers.

He looked at Bertholt. "Go home, but report to my office at 0900 tomorrow morning. Bring your model, and be prepared to explain in depth how you created it and to defend it, because I am going to make you defend it."

The commander left with a huge smile, seemingly unconcerned by his near experience with mining outpost command. Ah, to be young and stupid.

As for Rinias, well, if he could pull this off.... it would go a long way to showing everyone he had what it takes to take over for Admiral Kahurangi someday, wouldn't it just?

***

Every generation has a Barclay... and you don't get to be Vice Admiral without being both pretty awesome and having some ambition.
 
Last edited:
Good point, we haven't been doing any research on the weapons front yet.

Looks like they need to do more work on interdisciplinary cooperation, how to integrate everything together.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I looked it over and weapons and starbase design are the only two specialties that we are missing now. So maybe a combo team there? Nice catch and nice omake. I do love the socially awkward but brilliant officer
 
I suppose it comes down to which class do the ship designers think we are going to have a custom design for first between cruiser and explorer. Another possibility is do the escort this turn with 40 A erdani which will finish the first tier then move that over to warp tech and move Yoyodyne Propulsion onto starship construction. I guess that needs some feedback from the designers.
No consensus yet, though IMO explorer needs it more. They need to last.

As of last update, with the broken warp core reliability, it took 25 techs.
Priorities:
Explorer, Warp Core, Ship Construction
Science, Shields
Defense, Cruiser, Escort
 
Last edited:
More like five years or so, but yeah, we're pretty much in agreement that Explorer comes next so that we can actually build heavy cruisers without the Council giving us grief
Honestly, I'm not sure how much we benefit from a heavy cruiser class that's only a little smaller than an Excelsior. Why is that advantageous?

Once we have the Renaissance-class out, backed by a solid line of Excelsiors and a respectable force of Centaurs to thicken the numbers, we're pretty much set. The next priority is to come up with a categorically better explorer, and a categorically better (in particular, more survivable) escort.

Then we can do what the Federation actually did in the mid-24th century with its Excelsiors, and more or less echo what we're doing with the Connies. We "refit" the Excelsiors with more advanced equipment, but classed as cruisers rather than explorers, and then they become our heavy cruiser design.
 
Honestly, I'm not sure how much we benefit from a heavy cruiser class that's only a little smaller than an Excelsior. Why is that advantageous?

Once we have the Renaissance-class out, backed by a solid line of Excelsiors and a respectable force of Centaurs to thicken the numbers, we're pretty much set. The next priority is to come up with a categorically better explorer, and a categorically better (in particular, more survivable) escort.

Then we can do what the Federation actually did in the mid-24th century with its Excelsiors, and more or less echo what we're doing with the Connies. We "refit" the Excelsiors with more advanced equipment, but classed as cruisers rather than explorers, and then they become our heavy cruiser design.
Medium cruisers are better than lights and more cost effective. They can also tear the Cardies Destroyers several new ones.
 
Back
Top