You still have a pair of brits that reach the 90 day limit and a
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Australia
Very important to continue her role as Blue Kirk. I'll try to think of a thank you in the morning
Well, the way it's set up, actually running the battles is extremely easy, and all 80 turns proc instantly. If I were manually dicing, then yeah, I'd have to be a total head case. But having gone to the trouble of making an app, iterating the development is actually really straight forward, and it gives me ways to let you benefit from the Federation's tech advantage.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
So if we don't have enough crew, we'll need to plan ahead pretty far and have them recruited the previous turn through a political power action?
- Location
- Australia
Correct.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
And to make sure I understand correctly how Explorer Corps crew works, currently the Academy is at:
Meaning that it gives us exactly 1 Explorer Officer Unit, 1 Explorer Enlisted Unit, and 1 Explorer Science Tech Unit per year? Will expanding the academy result in more explorers or only more regular crew?
If expanding the Academy won't help, then we'll need to preserve political will for using the option for:
Request Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive, 20pp, (Gain 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs, PLUS Convert 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs from normal service)
Let me game it out. Right now we need two more Explorer Excelsiors to meet our goal of five concurrent five year missions. We're building one Excelsior, which will need to be crewed in 2305. Assuming we get right to work on the next Explorer, we'll need to crew it in 2309. Each Excelsior requires O-6, E-5, T-5.
Explorer Personnel Pool:
2302 (current) Explorer Corps: 5 Officer, 7 Enlisted, 5 Techs
2303: 6-O, 7-E, 5-T
2304: 7-O, 8-E, 6-T
2305: First goes to 8-O, 9-E, 7-T, then we deduce Excelsior, and it drops to 2-O, 4-E, 2-T
2306: 3-O, 5-E, 3-T
2307: 4-O, 6-E, 4-T
2308: 5-O, 7-E, 5-T... and we don't need to do a recruitment if the Academy graduation happens end of 2308/first thing 2309.
2309: First goes to 6-O, 8-E, 6-T, then we deduce Excelsior, and it drops to 0-O, 3-E, 1-T
Of course, that's assuming that we don't have personnel losses in the intervening years from some ship disaster requiring replacement from the pool. If that were to happen for officers, we'd have to do a Recruitment Drive.
Does all of that figure correctly?
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
This is a definite concern, especially since crew losses are now factored into battles. We should definitely focus on increasing our Academy output next turn so we have more of a buffer.
It seems it's automatic for him, so it's simply more grist for the statistics mill for us. I'd be more worried about 'adjustments' to the process that cause some of our lines of R&D to become useless or less useful.
Okay, so I think our current total combat is being underestimated. The info sheet says we're currently at 89, but I have us at 109. Check my math.
5 Excelsiors (6C) = 30
1 Constitution (5C) = 5
7 Constellations ( 3C) = 21
4 Soyuz (2C) = 8
13 Miranda (3C) = 39
2 Centaur (3C) = 6
Total = 109 unless I'm screwing up the math somewhere. That still puts us under the current Threat Level cap of 120, but we are way closer than I thought. Another Excelsior and 3 Oberths currently in production will put us at 118, and after that we'll have to retire ships to build new ones, assuming no change to the Threat level. (Which can go down as well as up, remember.)
I added this up as I tried to figure out how our current fleet is allocated as a fleet doctrine. Right now 56/109 of our total Combat is heavy and light cruisers, if that's how you're measuring we're at about at about 50/50 on cruisers versus escorts.
Talking longer term, five Excelsiors on five year missions means that we're going to have 30C on exploration at any one time, leaving us about 90C to distribute among the regular fleet. Next post I'm going to start laying out some options for Fleet Distribution in 2311.
5 Excelsiors (6C) = 30
1 Constitution (5C) = 5
7 Constellations ( 3C) = 21
4 Soyuz (2C) = 8
13 Miranda (3C) = 39
2 Centaur (3C) = 6
Total = 109 unless I'm screwing up the math somewhere. That still puts us under the current Threat Level cap of 120, but we are way closer than I thought. Another Excelsior and 3 Oberths currently in production will put us at 118, and after that we'll have to retire ships to build new ones, assuming no change to the Threat level. (Which can go down as well as up, remember.)
I added this up as I tried to figure out how our current fleet is allocated as a fleet doctrine. Right now 56/109 of our total Combat is heavy and light cruisers, if that's how you're measuring we're at about at about 50/50 on cruisers versus escorts.
Talking longer term, five Excelsiors on five year missions means that we're going to have 30C on exploration at any one time, leaving us about 90C to distribute among the regular fleet. Next post I'm going to start laying out some options for Fleet Distribution in 2311.
- Location
- somewhere
I think it just hasn't been updated after 20 combat worh of new constructions completed in q1 this year.
- Location
- USA
So we need to start researching the explorer or other two doctrines since those drop how much the ships combat score counts against our total
[X] Commodore Sanik
[x] Spock - Xenopsych
[x] Starfleet Science Academy - Communications
[x] Daystrom Institute - Computer
[x] Spock - Xenopsych
[x] Starfleet Science Academy - Communications
[x] Daystrom Institute - Computer
Proposed 2312 Fleet Composition Alternatives (assuming current Threat Level 7)
Caveats: New Federation members may increase cap on total Combat due to more sectors to Defend. Threat level may go up or down. We may use political will to allow for more ships, and fleet strategies may reduce costs for ships. We may build Starbases to increase Defense. These alternatives are intended to provoke discussion and thought and argument.
Locked: 5 Explorer Excelsiors on five year missions; 3 Oberths on missions of peaceful scientific exploration (neither counts towards defense).
33C/120C used; ~87C allowable (we can go up to 9 over without penalty) to garrison Key Sectors.
Heavy Cruiser Focus (Lone Wolf) Strategy
Description: Use new Excelsior berth at 40 Eridani A to produce new Excelsiors completing Q12308 and Q12312. Use new Excelsior berth at Tellar Prime to produce a new Excelsior completing Q2309. Maintain Cheron in service. Decommission escorts as required, leaving only minimum 5 for flexibility requiring small ship missions. Produce Light Cruiser Constellations as required.
Final 2312 Fleet Status (Explorers/science not counted)
5 standard service Excelsiors (3 more built) - 30C
1 Constitution - 5 C
13 Constellations (6 more built) - 39C
0 Soyuz (4 retired) - 0 C
3 Miranda (10 retired, no more built) - 9C
2 Centaur (no more built) - 6C
Resources required (not counting scrap bonuses, but counting crew returned to the pool from retiring ships): 1110 br, 690 sr, O-16, E-15, T-13.
Sol (D20) - 1 Excelsior (6), 3 Constellations (9), Starbase I (5)
Vulcan (D12) - 1 Excelsior (6), 1 Constellations (3), Starbase I (5)
Andoria (D8) - 1 Constellation (3), Starbase I (5)
Tellar Prime (D8) - 1 Constellation (3), Starbase I (5)
Romulan Border Zone (D6) - 1 Excelsior (6)
Klingon Border Zone (D6) - 2 Constellations (6)
Flexible Fleet Deployed as Needed - 2 Excelsiors, 1 Constitution, 5 Constellations, 3 Miranda, 2 Centaur
Science from non-Explorers: 61
Comments: As you can see, the high defensive features of the heavy cruisers in the Lone Wolf Strategy still offer high flexibility by leaving a number of ships available for a flexible "floating" fleet that can be deployed as needed. Not just in matters of war, but for a myriad of other tasks. However, it is expensive! Don't forget we also have to pay for that fifth explorer.
Escort Focus (Swarm) Strategy
Description: Produce no new Excelsiors beyond those required as Explorers. Decommission Cheron. Retire half our Constellations. Produce Centaurs (retiring Soyuz) and no new Mirandas.
Final 2312 Fleet Status (Explorers/science not counted)
2 standard service Excelsiors (0 more built) - 12C
0 Constitution (1 retired) - 0C
3 Constellations (4 retired) - 9C
0 Soyuz (4 retired) - 0 C
13 Miranda (no more built) - 39C
9 Centaur (7 more built) - 27C
Resources required (not counting scrap bonuses, but counting crew returned to the pool from retiring ships): 560br, 420 sr, (-)O-6, (-)E-14, (-)T-4. (The negative signs mean that we're returning more crew to the pool from retired ships than the Centaurs are using. Shut down the Academy!)
Sol (D20) - 1 Excelsior (6), 1 Constellations (3), 3 Mirandas (6), Starbase I (5)
Vulcan (D12) - 1 Constellations (3), 2 Mirandas (4), Starbase I (5)
Andoria (D8) - 2 Mirandas (4), Starbase I (5)
Tellar Prime (D8) - 2 Mirandas (4), Starbase I (5)
Romulan Border Zone (D6) - 1 Excelsior (6)
Klingon Border Zone (D6) - 1 Constellations (3), 2 Mirandas (4)
Flexible Fleet Deployed as Needed - 2 Miranda, 9 Centaur
Science from non-Explorers: 47
Comments: Oh my... well, this doesn't compare very favorably at all, does it!? The only real advantage is that this is the considerably cheaper option, but it leaves us with an actually smaller and less powerful flexible fleet than the heavy cruiser focus! I suppose if we were fighting a war and expecting to lose ship after ship in combat, this would be the way to go. However we all hope that will never happen.
Combined Arms (no Light Cruisers) Strategy
Description: Build as many Excelsiors as possible, but retire the Constitution. Retire all of our Constellations and fill the rest of the fleet with Escorts.
Final 2312 Fleet Status (Explorers/science not counted)
5 standard service Excelsiors (3 more built) - 30C
0 Constitution (retired) - 0 C
0 Constellations (7 retired) - 0C
0 Soyuz (4 retired) - 0 C
13 Miranda (no more built) - 39C
6 Centaur (4 more built) - 18C
Resources required (not counting scrap bonuses, but counting crew returned to the pool from retiring ships): 1010br, 690 sr, (-)O-1, (-)E-13, T-1. (The negative signs mean that we're returning more crew to the pool from retired ships than the Centaurs are using. Shut down the Academy!)
Sol (D20) - 1 Excelsior (6), 5 Mirandas (10), Starbase I (5)
Vulcan (D12) - 1 Excelsior (6), 1 Miranda (2), Starbase I (5)
Andoria (D8) - 1 Excelsior (6), Starbase I (5)
Tellar Prime (D8) - 1 Excelsior (6), Starbase I (5)
Romulan Border Zone (D6) - 1 Excelsior (6)
Klingon Border Zone (D6) - 3 Mirandas (6)
Flexible Fleet Deployed as Needed - 4 Mirandas, 6 Centaur
Science from non-Explorers: 50
Comments: Well this is... we've been left with the weakest flexible fleet yet and barely any more science for our trouble.
Overall: While the heavy cruiser option might seem like a clear winner, there's an important fact to keep in mind. It's contingent on no ships being destroyed. No matter how mighty they may seem, the recent example of the Cheron shows us just how fragile a starship can be to unexpected disaster. One Miranda is, with no disrespect to those crewing them, something easily replaceable. One Excelsior not so. An important lesson to keep in mind.
Caveats: New Federation members may increase cap on total Combat due to more sectors to Defend. Threat level may go up or down. We may use political will to allow for more ships, and fleet strategies may reduce costs for ships. We may build Starbases to increase Defense. These alternatives are intended to provoke discussion and thought and argument.
Locked: 5 Explorer Excelsiors on five year missions; 3 Oberths on missions of peaceful scientific exploration (neither counts towards defense).
33C/120C used; ~87C allowable (we can go up to 9 over without penalty) to garrison Key Sectors.
Heavy Cruiser Focus (Lone Wolf) Strategy
Description: Use new Excelsior berth at 40 Eridani A to produce new Excelsiors completing Q12308 and Q12312. Use new Excelsior berth at Tellar Prime to produce a new Excelsior completing Q2309. Maintain Cheron in service. Decommission escorts as required, leaving only minimum 5 for flexibility requiring small ship missions. Produce Light Cruiser Constellations as required.
Final 2312 Fleet Status (Explorers/science not counted)
5 standard service Excelsiors (3 more built) - 30C
1 Constitution - 5 C
13 Constellations (6 more built) - 39C
0 Soyuz (4 retired) - 0 C
3 Miranda (10 retired, no more built) - 9C
2 Centaur (no more built) - 6C
Resources required (not counting scrap bonuses, but counting crew returned to the pool from retiring ships): 1110 br, 690 sr, O-16, E-15, T-13.
Sol (D20) - 1 Excelsior (6), 3 Constellations (9), Starbase I (5)
Vulcan (D12) - 1 Excelsior (6), 1 Constellations (3), Starbase I (5)
Andoria (D8) - 1 Constellation (3), Starbase I (5)
Tellar Prime (D8) - 1 Constellation (3), Starbase I (5)
Romulan Border Zone (D6) - 1 Excelsior (6)
Klingon Border Zone (D6) - 2 Constellations (6)
Flexible Fleet Deployed as Needed - 2 Excelsiors, 1 Constitution, 5 Constellations, 3 Miranda, 2 Centaur
Science from non-Explorers: 61
Comments: As you can see, the high defensive features of the heavy cruisers in the Lone Wolf Strategy still offer high flexibility by leaving a number of ships available for a flexible "floating" fleet that can be deployed as needed. Not just in matters of war, but for a myriad of other tasks. However, it is expensive! Don't forget we also have to pay for that fifth explorer.
Escort Focus (Swarm) Strategy
Description: Produce no new Excelsiors beyond those required as Explorers. Decommission Cheron. Retire half our Constellations. Produce Centaurs (retiring Soyuz) and no new Mirandas.
Final 2312 Fleet Status (Explorers/science not counted)
2 standard service Excelsiors (0 more built) - 12C
0 Constitution (1 retired) - 0C
3 Constellations (4 retired) - 9C
0 Soyuz (4 retired) - 0 C
13 Miranda (no more built) - 39C
9 Centaur (7 more built) - 27C
Resources required (not counting scrap bonuses, but counting crew returned to the pool from retiring ships): 560br, 420 sr, (-)O-6, (-)E-14, (-)T-4. (The negative signs mean that we're returning more crew to the pool from retired ships than the Centaurs are using. Shut down the Academy!)
Sol (D20) - 1 Excelsior (6), 1 Constellations (3), 3 Mirandas (6), Starbase I (5)
Vulcan (D12) - 1 Constellations (3), 2 Mirandas (4), Starbase I (5)
Andoria (D8) - 2 Mirandas (4), Starbase I (5)
Tellar Prime (D8) - 2 Mirandas (4), Starbase I (5)
Romulan Border Zone (D6) - 1 Excelsior (6)
Klingon Border Zone (D6) - 1 Constellations (3), 2 Mirandas (4)
Flexible Fleet Deployed as Needed - 2 Miranda, 9 Centaur
Science from non-Explorers: 47
Comments: Oh my... well, this doesn't compare very favorably at all, does it!? The only real advantage is that this is the considerably cheaper option, but it leaves us with an actually smaller and less powerful flexible fleet than the heavy cruiser focus! I suppose if we were fighting a war and expecting to lose ship after ship in combat, this would be the way to go. However we all hope that will never happen.
Combined Arms (no Light Cruisers) Strategy
Description: Build as many Excelsiors as possible, but retire the Constitution. Retire all of our Constellations and fill the rest of the fleet with Escorts.
Final 2312 Fleet Status (Explorers/science not counted)
5 standard service Excelsiors (3 more built) - 30C
0 Constitution (retired) - 0 C
0 Constellations (7 retired) - 0C
0 Soyuz (4 retired) - 0 C
13 Miranda (no more built) - 39C
6 Centaur (4 more built) - 18C
Resources required (not counting scrap bonuses, but counting crew returned to the pool from retiring ships): 1010br, 690 sr, (-)O-1, (-)E-13, T-1. (The negative signs mean that we're returning more crew to the pool from retired ships than the Centaurs are using. Shut down the Academy!)
Sol (D20) - 1 Excelsior (6), 5 Mirandas (10), Starbase I (5)
Vulcan (D12) - 1 Excelsior (6), 1 Miranda (2), Starbase I (5)
Andoria (D8) - 1 Excelsior (6), Starbase I (5)
Tellar Prime (D8) - 1 Excelsior (6), Starbase I (5)
Romulan Border Zone (D6) - 1 Excelsior (6)
Klingon Border Zone (D6) - 3 Mirandas (6)
Flexible Fleet Deployed as Needed - 4 Mirandas, 6 Centaur
Science from non-Explorers: 50
Comments: Well this is... we've been left with the weakest flexible fleet yet and barely any more science for our trouble.
Overall: While the heavy cruiser option might seem like a clear winner, there's an important fact to keep in mind. It's contingent on no ships being destroyed. No matter how mighty they may seem, the recent example of the Cheron shows us just how fragile a starship can be to unexpected disaster. One Miranda is, with no disrespect to those crewing them, something easily replaceable. One Excelsior not so. An important lesson to keep in mind.
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[X] Commodore Sanik
[x] Spock - Xenopsych
[x] Starfleet Science Academy - Communications
[x] Daystrom Institute - Computer
We'll also probably need to use the phrase 'employment program' a lot to our bosses in this case.
[x] Spock - Xenopsych
[x] Starfleet Science Academy - Communications
[x] Daystrom Institute - Computer
I think our current goal is actually to build enough Excelsior slipways that they are replaceable. If we actually get 5 yards cranking them out (Earth, Mars, 40 Eridani A, Andor, and Tellar Prime) we may end up putting a bunch of them directly into mothball.
We'll also probably need to use the phrase 'employment program' a lot to our bosses in this case.
I think people are underestimating these two bonuses are. If they apply to our explorers, and I think they do, that should hopefully mean the vast majority of combat we might see.
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Federation is a defensive-reactive nation, one that does not truly benefit from the advantages of long-range, small-scale raider warfare. Wolfpack lends itself incredibly well to star empires that have Cloaking technology, which dramatically amplifies all its benefits, but for a navy that, ultimately, comes down to its big, incredibly enduring battle-brick cruisers? No. Wolfpack is not the way to go.
I don't think we have a current goal. That's the purpose of me posting various fleet compositions we could shoot for in ten years time, which I think is a nice medium time frame to consider.
If your idea is to make enough Excelsior slips that they're replaceable, well, that's not a terrible idea. Though note that Plan Heavy Cruiser assumes three active Excelsior slips cranking at maximum capacity, and right now we only have the option for one more beyond that (if there's a new Andor shipyard). If we go "all Excelsior, all the time" then we definitely want that fourth berth open for repair purposes if nothing else.
I'd really like to have the Renaissance design done so that we could start focusing on replacing Constellations with those ships.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Let's get a science ship that's not a hunk of junk first. The Oberth needs to be replaced with something with enough shields and structural toughness to survive a hit or two so it can bug out if shit goes wrong.
If we stick to stock designs, we'll still be using Oberths while we have Galaxies as our heavy cruiser.
If we stick to stock designs, we'll still be using Oberths while we have Galaxies as our heavy cruiser.
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I guess?
Honestly, I have no idea what to expect from the Oberths. Once we've got the first batch built, I figure we can take a couple of years and see what kind of missions they're sent on and how dangerous those missions actually are. If it's at the level of random events for our regular fleet, where ships can go years without anything particularly interesting happen, then maybe they're fine as they are. If they spend a lot of time in trouble, then something probably needs to be done.
But yeah, I need to see the Oberths in action before I conclude an upgrade is needed. Right now they're cheap and replaceable so if we only lose one every ten years or so due to random events then who cares, build another one. If they're in danger every turn, then we can definitely talk.
What's wrong with using Pocket Battleships as raiders? That seems like a valid enough tactic that Britain moved heaven and earth to try to get the Pocket Battleship banned.
What about:
- Request funding to start Utopia Planitia Shipyards, 175pp (16 turns, gain new shipyard starting with 2 3m t berths, 2 1m t berths)
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Because Britain was in a geopolitical situation where its enemies had immediate and unquestionable access to almost all its important ports.
The Federation isn't Space Britain, which has to worry about Space Germany (the Klingons) suddenly blasting everything and everyone to pieces (they tried that and they couldn't do it).
The Federation is Space America, fat, ponderous, and without really having anyone who can threaten its home waters without extending to a degree that they get immediately fucked by any counterattack.
(Well, until we meet the Borg and the Dominion I guess, but those are basically just Bigger Space Americas doctrinally)
It is really expensive. I mean, that is 7 years worth of political will if we hoarded each year's entire income. Then it takes four years to build.
Again, I'm talking medium term planning. Up through 2312. We are not getting UP in that time frame. No way.
- Location
- Panama City
My idea for the Oberths is something that follows our actual explorers and does in-depth study to anything they find. Sure, they suck at combat, but they make great platforms for long term science missions in controlled space, plus we can use the platform for prototypes and stuff.
As for doctrine, yeah I'm in favor of more Excelsiors and getting Renaissance, and pumping those out in favor of more escorts.
As for doctrine, yeah I'm in favor of more Excelsiors and getting Renaissance, and pumping those out in favor of more escorts.
- Location
- Wollongong, Australia
How can it be combined arms if you're dropping an entire ship class??? Ton for Ton, the Light Cruisers are more cost effective than the Escorts, at least until we pick up the Defiant. That said, Escorts allow for greater dispersion of our Armament. Hence... Combined Arms. While the Feds like their Heavy Cruisers, we're also the Tech Guys, which means that Combined Arms certainly works in our favour.
And at that point, if we've been playing decently, we should be able to SCIENCE our way to parity fairly quickly. With the latter, that is. I'm somewhat leery as to where the former will be placing...
That's why we need the Oberths, not for Combat, so that Starfleet can do what Starfleet does best: