That's just a made up rule. I don't see why we should stop sweet bonus collection unless there's a really compelling reason not to - like someone with a better bonus. This isn't the old days where there were literally three EC postings and we're damming progress for others.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Given the Orion-Amarkia history, I think separate sectors will be smoother for dealing with getting them integrated into the federation. Fewer chances for reminders of the problems during the Orion crisis and the ancient history.
I think the FDS would insist, even if the logistics are harder.
I think the FDS would insist, even if the logistics are harder.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, another issue is that Vol Chad has been a captain for at least ten years if not more, and it'll be a few years more before his five-year mission ends. I'd feel kind of bummed stalling out his career too badly given that he did a great job on the Sappho and a damn good job on the A'Tuin even if the ship has been rather unlucky.
...
I think the Orions would be extremely unhappy and uncomfortable with this politically. They have some pride as a species, I imagine.
The Betazoids have a fairly small spacegoing presence, so folding them into Sol Sector probably didn't rankle that much. The Gaeni probably DO think there should be a "Gaen Sector," but right now most of the territory it could occupy is taken up by the Licori Border Zone, so they can at least wait and hope that the situation changes at some future time when the LBZ no longer exists.
But the Orions? They have a good claim to their own sector, from a political point of view, and the existing borders of the Amarkia and Ferasa Sectors don't extend into their existing space, so there's at least some volume 'unclaimed' under Federation law that can go into that new sector.
It's less work for us as gameplayers, but in-character imagine how it'd feel to the Orions. They have a starfaring history dating back to when all other Federation members except the Vulcans were in the Iron Age, and to go from an empire to being a footnote in someone else's sector is going to be a degradation. It may just be an administrative thing, but I can see a lot of Orion politicians who thought unification was a mistake making a lot of noise about this.
Thing is, there's no obvious reason why Orion space SHOULD need less patrolling as part of Amarkia Sector than it already did; it should still add significantly to our Defense requirements given how much of it there is and the fact that Syndicate-related issues can't have gone away entirely.
It just... to me, it feels like a very obvious example of something that seems great to us from a gameplay mechanics point of view, but would go over incredibly badly in real life. Insofar as the game is intended to simulate a realistic political situation, I think the Orions should either get their own sector, or be pissed about not getting their own sector.
Also, this.
If we're making arguments on political grounds then it shoudn't be something we decide. It should be up to the Council.
On non-political grounds I'd prefer it to be the same sector as Amarkia.
On non-political grounds I'd prefer it to be the same sector as Amarkia.
I would put all of them into Amarkia space. Ferasa sector is quite big enough, stretching all the way down to Risa!
I don't agree on this point of pride stuff. If it's a big deal, we can call it the Amarkia-Orion sector.
Elves Sector.
Orions are Elves to Amarkians.
Amarkians are Elves to Humans.
The universal translator agrees!
Orions are Elves to Amarkians.
Amarkians are Elves to Humans.
The universal translator agrees!
- Location
- Patriarchova
I don't think we do get any say in this?
Elfception?
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hm. Assuming the Orions would prefer not to be in Amarkia Sector...
It would make the most sense to put them in a new Alukk Sector. Putting them in Ferasa would be extremely suboptimal unless you did some further reorganization down there. Say, shifting the Qloathi into Rethelia Sector, or designating a new sector for them which includes the Lamarck/Ataami and hypothetically the Lecarre/Dawiar if they were to flip...
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I say combined.
Imagine Chad's Personnel bonus.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I definitely don't think the Orions should be in Ferasa Sector.
But I think the Orions themselves will be bitter for a long time if we 'just stick them in Amarkia Sector.'
Though to be fair, the Amarki themselves will laugh their blue-green 'pretty savage' asses off.
But I think the Orions themselves will be bitter for a long time if we 'just stick them in Amarkia Sector.'
Though to be fair, the Amarki themselves will laugh their blue-green 'pretty savage' asses off.
It's a bit unfortunate we name sectors after planets or species, because if we knew a stellar feature of this sector we could name it after that. That might be a more diplomatic way to do things in the future.
- Location
- USA
Are those the actual names used in game or just mechanical names?
To be clear here, a combined sector is an actual real benefit. Member fleets are allowed to travel freely in their own sector; they can support installations outside their home sector only in special travel corridors. Giving Orions their own sector means cramping their fleet into a smaller territory. Are they going to screw themselves over on a point of pride?
Orions are really sharp. They understand substance is more important than branding. They'll take a combined sector, and it'll be up to their PR campaigns to sell it to the populace.
On the other hand, having their own sector lets the keep the Aramaki out of their turf.
A trading mercantile race eager to sell to the new Federation market. Are they going to be more concerned about keeping Amarki out of their turf, or are they going to be more concerned about access to the Amarki turf?
Given Orion nature and given Orion pride, I would say 100% that it's more important to them that they have easy access to Amarki worlds than it is that they keep Amarki away from their worlds. I believe they have a lot of confidence in their ability to come out ahead on a fair competition of development and commerce. Tell me I'm wrong.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You're wrong. Trade can move freely between sectors, so that's utterly irrelevant. It's non-Starfleet militaries that are restricted, and I very much doubt the Orions are about to use their warships for shipping, that's what someone who doesn't have a bajillion free yards for freighter builds does.
Pshaw, they don't use warships for shipping exactly but 95% of the time they aren't using them for war either. Armed military starships are used to support civilian shipping, trade, exploration, investigation, and science. We've seen it over and over again in our own events. Why exactly would they deny themselves the opportunity to do that over a wider area of space in return for the dubious pleasure of keeping the Amarkians from doing the same?
It would probably come down to if TUP wants to throw its member fleet around as a point of pride or if they'd go "Alukk First Defense Strategy" so to speak.
If the trade flows they might not care about their military fleet going all over the place; it might even be seen as a feature.
If the trade flows they might not care about their military fleet going all over the place; it might even be seen as a feature.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
TBH I doubt the Orions are gonna be all that interested in operating near the Amarki anyhow. I mean, if they're gonna negotiate for a neighboring area to expand into/ trade more with I figure they'd see Ferasa Sector as more appealing. Literally everywhere from Arqueniou to Risa, with two very new markets opening up...
Though I will again note that shoving Alukk into Ferasa sector would probably give bureaucrats across the Federation heart attacks. The size of the resulting monstrosity hardly bears thinking about.
Though I will again note that shoving Alukk into Ferasa sector would probably give bureaucrats across the Federation heart attacks. The size of the resulting monstrosity hardly bears thinking about.
Ferasa probably needs to be partially chunked into a spinward BZ or something.
Speaking of @OneirosTheWriter if we had hypothetically made a borderzone long the straights of Themis, what would happen to it when the Seyek and Qloathi joined? Would we get to push it to their far side for free or would it just be eaten?
I mean, we never actually had the option to do anything like that probably for that exact reason.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That's more or less what happened to the Cardassian Border Zone- the latter, I mean. It used to be that the Apiata and Indorians were definitely on the far side of that border zone. Now they're not.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
It would be helpful if you start including other bits of context with the continuing growth of Federation sectors/members/affiliates:
- homeworlds contained in the sector
- neighboring affiliates sector is responsible for
- other neighboring polities (neutrals, threats) sector is responsible for
Quibble: It's a bit jarring to see "current" on the front page when it usually is not in fact the current date. Could you replace the "Current" labels with "As of 2317.Q4"?
Shouldn't this be 16D?
Due to the 3 affiliates, 1 neutral, and 2 non-BZs this border zone supports, I'd prefer to keep more decent presence ships here.
Consider swapping the Constellation for a Centaur-A (SBZ/CBZ's Gale?) or a Constellation-A (Tellar's Challorn?).
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
A couple points here:
1) I'd prefer having Amarkia sector include Orion space, since increasing numbers of sectors limits Starfleet garrison flexibility.
2) To avoid stepping on any toes, perhaps rename the sector to Amarkia-Alukk Sector? The same could be said for Apinae-Indoria, and Sol-Betazed-Gaen, although the latter is rather awkward. It is fair though.
Caldonia being part of the KBZ is going to be interesting - we want it to remain a border zone, but the Caldonians being subordinate to "Klingon Border Zone" in sector naming is unfortunate, to say the least.
3) I consider all these homeworld-centric sectors somewhat shortsighted. It's a fine system with just a few sectors, and it'll continue working just fine for the next decade or so. But at some point, with the way the Federation is expanding and colonizing worlds all over the place, and as those worlds become major worlds, the Federation is going to become a lot more of a ... cosmopolitan patchwork, for lack of a better phrase. It's going to be a time when traditional member territorial boundaries start to lose meaning, the scope and operational bounds of member fleets become increasingly awkward, and major worlds gain more and more importance relative to the species and/or interstellar member governments they're supposedly beholden to.
It's not something the Federation has to be that worried about right now, but we're starting to see of some of this in the GBZ, with the Caitians claiming significant territory that is nowhere near adjacent to their homeworld-centric territories.
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