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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Steven Kodaly said:
They're also expensive and intended for event response, not combat.
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Under the current rules they would be really useful in the scouting and skirmishing phases of a battle and can retreat after that. They will also be much more durable than Oberths which we have been using in battles with reasonably good survival rates. They basically do every thing cruisers and capitals can't do in a battle, and much better than any current frigate design. So much so that I'm questioning whether we actually want a "combat" frigate in the future, as opposed to a large number of Renaissances and Explorers and a moderate number of Keplers to fulfill the necessary frigate roles but try to stay out of the main battle.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Fwiw, the Cardassians also have the Konen, Goshawnar, Dylaarians, and anyone else they've picked up
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I don't recall what we know about the Konen and Goshawner fleet strengths, but the implication from the intel posts is that the Dylaarians are potentially the Cardassian-equivalent to our Amarkia or Apaine. So they may have a quite strong member fleet able to approach us from core-ward GBZ.

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From 2313:
The Goshawnar are an autocratic society who as of their most recent coup are tightly involved with the Cardassian Union. Their forces are built around a set of lightly protected, heavily armed, high speed escorts and cruisers. These operate in a swarm attack system. Their homeworld is located in GR l1, with two other major colony worlds nearby. Their production capacity is significant, on a similar level to the Caitians. We hold considerable concern as to our ability to restrain these forces from acting in effective commerce raider roles.

The Konnen are former rivals of the Cardassian Union, and we are still endeavouring to find out what transpired to cause them to join up under the Cardassian Union's aegis. From what material we have so far been able to analyse, it may be as simple as the Obsidian Order being able to offer better personal advantages to the Konnen's autocratic leaders. This is the faction that most alarms Starfleet Intelligence, as their empath capability and their military are both useful assets to the Cardassians. Their military is not dissimilar in scope to the Amarkian fleet, and provides a nucleus of durable explorers for the Cardassians to work with. Their homeworld is located in l-4.
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So effectively they have an Apaine, an Amarkia and a Caitian scale member that can be called up, at minimum.
 
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Forgothrax said:
The way to fix our Development problem is difficult. We as a thread need to hold back our Expansionist desires and stop dropping pushes on anyone over 100 without good reason (Yrillians and anyone diplomatically threatened by an enemy a la Sydraxians would be good exceptions). A couple years of research will land us free affiliate rolls on 3 non-affiliates plus a random diplopush. That should be enough to keep us diplomatically covered while restraining our Expansionist urges.
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My logic for the Yan-Ros push was that they were the closest affiliate we have to the ISC, and I want them pretty firmly in Federation orbit as we engage with that power. But in general, yes I agree.
 
Steven Kodaly said:
They're also expensive and intended for event response, not combat.
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As Nix said, they are basically made for the scouting phase and can hold their own in skirmish, retreating afterwards. Depending on how the module rules end up we may have a peace time survey sensor module and a wartime +1L or even C module, which could give them similar performance to a Miranda-A. They would be expensive but the ability to win a phase with them almost guaranteed would be amazing.

Nix said:
So much so that I'm questioning whether we actually want a "combat" frigate in the future, as opposed to a large number of Renaissances and Explorers and a moderate number of Keplers to fulfill the necessary frigate roles but try to stay out of the main battle.
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I am concerned that without a decent combat frigate design we will have difficulties with the Skirmish phase. Our Mirandas, while very efficient, aren't very useful in peace time and they can't 1v1 almost anything the Cardassians have to offer, so if we get a "combat encounter" roll like the Saratoga and that one Jaldun the Miranda gets corncobbed by anything it's facing. Realistically we should view a new combat frigate as a way to make a Miranda-esque vessel that can hold it's own solo, not necessarily improve on the Miranda's cost efficiency.

The Vanguard phase is also going to suck because our Rennies will have to deal with a pile of Jalduns without Excelsior backup.
 
Do we actually have a inventory of mothballed starfleet/member ships?

I wonder if the mercantile faction is willing to sponsor reconditioning them for civilian sale, or handing them off to minor civs. There must be some equivalent to the Canadian/South American naval market.
 
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TyrialFrost said:
Do we actually have a inventory of mothballed starfleet/member ships?

I wonder if the mercantile faction is willing to sponsor reconditioning them for civilian sale, or handing them off to minor civs. There must be some equivalent to the Canadian/South American naval market.
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Starfleet runs her ships until they are coming apart at the seams. What museum ships we have are inoperable.
 
The only ships that have been depreciated during the quest were the Soyuz hulls. There is one left, in the Vulcan fleet, unless I've missed it's scrapping.
The ships were sent to the breakers to be recycled.

Which makes that poster someone put up a few days ago amusing in a way, as it listed refitted Soyuz being used as gun boats in the Dominion War ....
 
Goat said:
2MT berth at UP and assigning it to super-freighter production.
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Why not offer to trade lease the 2 mt berth to members who want to build 2 mt designs in exchange for access to member yards for auxiliaries, or pp? I don't see us getting maximum benefit from a 2 mt berth vs. say the member fleets, who maintain the Trunk Loop.

TLDR: give the yard to the MWCO.

@OneirosTheWriter Is this okay?
 
AlphaDelta said:
Why not offer to trade lease the 2 mt berth to members who want to build 2 mt designs in exchange for access to member yards for auxiliaries, or pp? I don't see us getting maximum benefit from a 2 mt berth vs. say the member fleets, who maintain the Trunk Loop.

TLDR: give the yard to the MWCO.

@OneirosTheWriter Is this okay?
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Superfreighters are the fastest way for us to grow our bulk cargo capacity on a year*berth basis. Unless we get two yards for renting out the 2mt one, or better that is.
Narratively, superfreighters work best on the trunk loop - I don't deny this. But we could fit two on the Industrial loop for Starfleet without any effort. That's eight years of build time from now, and if we don't have more capacity that needs to be filled by then I'll be deeply surprised. Also worried.
 
chriswriter90 said:
It's a 'Tier 1 Escort' by 2409 standards.
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No, that's a case of them building an NX-shaped hull, filling it with 2409-vintage equipment (like shield generators), peeling the paint off of the original NX, and very carefully reapplying it to their new NX-shaped... thing. Seriously, review the description of the ship given in the purchase listings. :p

UbeOne said:
Maybe it was refitted during the STO timeline?

Or it's a sleeper ship made by Starfleet's Corps of Engineers. Vintage-looking NX-class on the outside with the latest tech on the inside.
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Most likely this.

Forgothrax said:
I am concerned that without a decent combat frigate design we will have difficulties with the Skirmish phase. Our Mirandas, while very efficient, aren't very useful in peace time and they can't 1v1 almost anything the Cardassians have to offer, so if we get a "combat encounter" roll like the Saratoga and that one Jaldun the Miranda gets corncobbed by anything it's facing. Realistically we should view a new combat frigate as a way to make a Miranda-esque vessel that can hold it's own solo, not necessarily improve on the Miranda's cost efficiency...
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The catch is, I'm not sure that our fleet commanders are actually sending lone Mirandas out there much if they can avoid it. They're not really fast enough to make good scouts, if their Defense score is any sign. And yes, a lone Miranda is likely to get mauled on its own, but that was never really what Miranda-As were for conceptually. We send them in squadrons to mob attacking battle fleets and thicken the firepower of our own forces in a very crew- and cost-efficient way.

The Miranda-A is a class of fleet escort destroyers, not independent scouting frigates- that would be the Centaur-A's job, or arguably the Keplers.

The Vanguard phase is also going to suck because our Rennies will have to deal with a pile of Jalduns without Excelsior backup.
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A Renaissance slightly overmatches a Jaldun in single combat due to greater firepower and depth of shielding- remember that a Rennie is ALMOST as good in a fight as a stock Excelsior, yielding only a single point of Combat to the larger ship. It's on event response rolls that there's a more significant performance gap.

Nervos Belli said:
Starfleet runs her ships until they are coming apart at the seams. What museum ships we have are inoperable.
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To be fair, there do seem to be exceptions or near-exceptions to that rule. The Constellations are a likely candidate, because they're very manpower-hungry relative to the Centaur-A (which is almost as good) and relatively weak relative to the upcoming Kepler in their designated role.

It's possible that at some future time we'll have an incentive to sell off ships to a member world or affiliate in exchange for resources of some kind. But on the whole people seem to prefer to build ships rather than buy.
 
nocarename said:
Exploring is hard on a hull. Just ask Courageous.

Which reminds me. Do we know who is heading the Economics post in the current Orion Government? Asking for a passing thought bubbling up.
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I'm not sure what you mean by this. Economics as in, the guy in the Orion Government who's the Executive Officer of Finance? Or the Starfleet person in charge of Orion Economic Analysis? Or did you get 'intelligence' autocorrected to economics?

Because if you mean the later we've got a Commander level Orion Analysis Chief and also Office 8, the field intelligence collection unit for Orion, headed by a Commander-level Supervisor. They'd probably handle economic analysis. I had a few names mentioned here. Of them, your best bet would be to use Torrt Kineak [Rigellian] or Ensign (probably Lt. now) Pouren [Human]. Either of them is good for getting fleshed out. :D
 
Iron Wolf said:
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Economics as in, the guy in the Orion Government who's the Executive Officer of Finance? Or the Starfleet person in charge of Orion Economic Analysis? Or did you get 'intelligence' autocorrected to economics?

Because if you mean the later we've got a Commander level Orion Analysis Chief and also Office 8, the field intelligence collection unit for Orion, headed by a Commander-level Supervisor. They'd probably handle economic analysis. I had a few names mentioned here. Of them, your best bet would be to use Torrt Kineak [Rigellian] or Ensign (probably Lt. now) Pouren [Human]. Either of them is good for getting fleshed out. :D
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Executive Officer of Finance is probably who I'm after here. I'm thinking that the QM has mentioned the Alukk yard upgrading and working to get things ready plus piles of economic problems from having a civil war, but I can't recall anything about new ships being started.
And goodness knows N'Gir would love to kill two problems with one leap, so maybe Starfleet would be willing to build some logistics hulls in a non-member world yard at a reasonable rate and prime the Orion economic pump a little?
 
Simon_Jester said:
It's possible that at some future time we'll have an incentive to sell off ships to a member world or affiliate in exchange for resources of some kind.
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If memory serves - and you would know, seeing as the Constitution-B is your baby! - the eventual transfer of Constitution-B hulls to member governments was part of the original plan when we put that design in service.
 
nocarename said:
Superfreighters are the fastest way for us to grow our bulk cargo capacity on a year*berth basis. Unless we get two yards for renting out the 2mt one, or better that is.
Narratively, superfreighters work best on the trunk loop - I don't deny this. But we could fit two on the Industrial loop for Starfleet without any effort. That's eight years of build time from now, and if we don't have more capacity that needs to be filled by then I'll be deeply surprised. Also worried.
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Fair enough.

I guess that's a mid-term usage - between when we get logistics sorted out and when we make a 2 mt cruiser.
 
I've got to go see Baby Driver, but when I get back I can have an updated cabinet. because why not.

Although I see someone added a Hahn Xenoss to the database... ;)

Other relevant positions would be Executive Officer of Commercial Development and Procurement and People's Advocate for Infrastructure and Development. e: which is roughly analogous to Public Works and Government Services Canada for the former and a combo of the department of Housing and Urban Development and the department of Energy (US) for the latter.
 
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