>yfw all the new members go development and we hand N'Gir a majority in a council clearly designed not to encourage majorities.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
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- alphen aan den rijn
?so can anyone tell me what the results where with that political fight over the peacekeeper force and all that?
i can not find anything about the results of that?
cardasian sneaking about in our back yard / dwarf warming up to relations too our affiliates / the ppl in the north doing mostly the same
so apart from being unstable and it could lead into a war, maybe
all of this sounds like good news so far
then i hear the romulans are mostly losing there war.... can not make my mind up if that is good or bad? because a strong klingon border does not sound like a thing many of us would like i think??
so mostly oke news in the west, not that great news in the east and some positve sounds from up north? so yay?
i can not find anything about the results of that?
cardasian sneaking about in our back yard / dwarf warming up to relations too our affiliates / the ppl in the north doing mostly the same
so apart from being unstable and it could lead into a war, maybe
all of this sounds like good news so far
then i hear the romulans are mostly losing there war.... can not make my mind up if that is good or bad? because a strong klingon border does not sound like a thing many of us would like i think??
so mostly oke news in the west, not that great news in the east and some positve sounds from up north? so yay?
When we do go into full bore "tweak-the-Cardies" mode it might be worth making sure we keep a decent level of medical presence near the borders with their affiliates, ready to respond to distress calls and such.
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The political infighting got so bad that the Temporal Cold War went hot. As a result, those posts have been removed from the list of threadmarked canon-posts.
Since it just got brought up, it'd be pretty amusing to me if we spent all this time getting H Y P E about the romulans only for them to get completely defeated by the Klingons, who basically no-one writes about.
ps I think we saw an appearance of the Magician in the latest update.
ps I think we saw an appearance of the Magician in the latest update.
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- USA
We probably should have and it does make a lot of sense in hindsight. They have a resource problem so they are more likely to concentrate one or two designs that would allow replacement equipment for general maintenance and repair to be the same so that any parts produced can be used for most of their fleet. The Federation is resource rich in comparison so is more likely to go into multiple designs even if that means having to use more resources to maintain a similar reserve of parts for multiple designs.
Is that not why the Treaty of Gaen was allowed in the first place
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Look on the bright side if they implode into civil war we might end up getting Romulus to join the Federation after all!
Speaking of good times to bring up uncomfortable things. I apparently misread the Development ideal logistics build schedule. They want a freighter and two cargo ships under construction at all times, not a freighter and two cargo ships finishing every year. This means doubling the auxiliary berths, not tripling them and an output of 1/3 of a freighter and a cargo ship every year, on average.
Sorry everyone.
And now, some more crunchy numbers.
Cardassian Logistics Predictions
Assumptions
The Yards
At 2 years per cargo ship and 75% capacity -> That brings us to an expected 3 cargo ships a year.
Freighter Berths: 2 (2@Cardassia Merchant Yards)
At 3 years per freighter and 75% capacity -> That brings us to an expected freighter every two years on average.
Superfreighter Berths: 1 (1@Todamak)
I am treating this as a special case with continuous production since the only known auxiliary that masses this much is the superfreighter.
At 4 years per superfreighter - That brings us to an expected superfreighter every 4 years.
Treating a super freighter as two freighters, that gives them an effective rate of a freighter each year of additional bulk capacity.
That is more than double the actual Development dream build.
All in all, the Cardassians are planning a major logistical build up and they appear to intend to maintain it.
Sorry everyone.
And now, some more crunchy numbers.
Cardassian Logistics Predictions
Assumptions
- Auxiliary builds will happen in yards that have 'Merchant' in their names and Bajor (because I'm pretty sure that the Cardassians don't trust them with weapons platforms).
- Yards will spend three quarters of their time building logistics ships with the remaining quarter producing other auxiliary hulls.
- Berths will produce the largest logistics ship they can handle - ie. The 2mt berth at Todamak won't be turning out cargo ships.
The Yards
Cargo Berths: 8 (2@Todamak, 3@Prophetforge, 3@Balobot)
At 2 years per cargo ship and 75% capacity -> That brings us to an expected 3 cargo ships a year.
Freighter Berths: 2 (2@Cardassia Merchant Yards)
At 3 years per freighter and 75% capacity -> That brings us to an expected freighter every two years on average.
Superfreighter Berths: 1 (1@Todamak)
I am treating this as a special case with continuous production since the only known auxiliary that masses this much is the superfreighter.
At 4 years per superfreighter - That brings us to an expected superfreighter every 4 years.
Treating a super freighter as two freighters, that gives them an effective rate of a freighter each year of additional bulk capacity.
That is more than double the actual Development dream build.
All in all, the Cardassians are planning a major logistical build up and they appear to intend to maintain it.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
always nice when people give useful feedback.
logistic might win them the war more then ships will
logistic might win them the war more then ships will
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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The way to fix our Development problem is difficult. We as a thread need to hold back our Expansionist desires and stop dropping pushes on anyone over 100 without good reason (Yrillians and anyone diplomatically threatened by an enemy a la Sydraxians would be good exceptions). A couple years of research will land us free affiliate rolls on 3 non-affiliates plus a random diplopush. That should be enough to keep us diplomatically covered while restraining our Expansionist urges.
From the Intel post, it does appear that a combination of the Cardassians weak initial logistics (one of the early posts, if I recall correctly, indicated that some shipping was being done by their Jalduns as there weren't enough cargo hulls to shift it all) and whatever they found in the GBZ has driven their merchant fleet to it's knees, trying to shift all the raw and refined materials to the construction yards.
Once they have caught up though, expect a cruiser surge.
Between these developments, the size of the mines that the Apaine found in the GBZ, the Development faction issues, I'm going to vote for any option we are given for more Starfleet registry logistics vessel and support building the 2MT berth at UP and assigning it to super-freighter production. In our more militant yards - more Rennies.
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- Mid-Atlantic
I suppose. Though at the moment I don't think the war's going that badly; the Klingons just suffered a significant reverse in the most important sector of the front, though they're pushing forward on another one.
It does seem plausible.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
so i am hearing a push for both races next to sydraxian`s maybe a push on that border world with romulans and one other under 100 group?
would love me some more diplomatic pressure on the sydraxian`s.
if we can get them and maybe even the dwarfs to flip that would be major
A small by type comparison. Both sides would need to hold back hulls for local support so this comparison is unrealistic, but I cannot read the QMs war plans.
Dedicated Science Vessels:
4 [Oberth] vs 3 [Takaaki] (Science) - fairly even. I would give the Federation the advantage here.
Non-Science Frigates
21 [Miranda, Miranda-A, Centaur-A] vs 24 [Takaaki, Hiroshi, Isaamu] - numbers wise close to even, though the Takaaki is a nasty little vessel and is expected to win any 1v1 against our current designs. The advantage is with the Cardassians here.
Cruisers
18 [Constellation, Constitution-B, Renaissance] vs 32-37 [Jadun, Kaldar] - we are seriously outnumbered here, and the Constellation fairs poorly in this category.
Capitals
10 [Constitution-A, Excelsior, Excelsior-A] vs 2 [Lorgot] - very strongly favors the Federation, and is really our only vector for success currently in a general war with Cardassia.
If we went to war tomorrow, we would need to depend on our superior Capitals to try to compensate for their greater hull numbers - and the combat engine does tend to favour number of shooters.
Assuming war is inevitable, but a long way off, then we will need to strengthen our cruiser line (which we are doing) and get a new Combat Frigate design that is superior to the Takaaki deployed in numbers.
EDIT:
Under Construction numbers
Cardassians:
~3 Kaldar
~6 Jaldun
~6 Takaaki
Starfleet (2316Q4):
2 Ambassador
2 Excelsior
2 Excelsior-A
1 Excelsior-A Refit
2 Renaissance
2 Constellation-A Refit
1 Miranda-A
2 Miranda-A Refit
Leaving aside the refits, we have 6 Capitals, 2 Cruisers and 1 Frigate currently under construction. In terms of hulls we are falling well behind here, though the Capitals are still welcome. But when the year ticks over, we have a bunch of new work starting up ....
If we look at next quarters projected build plan:
Starfleet (2317Q1):
2 Ambassador
3 Excelsior-A
1 Excelsior-A Refit
6 Renaissance
3 Constellation-A
2 Constellation-A Refit
1 Miranda-A
2 Miranda-A Refit
For a under construction total of 5 Capitals, 9 Cruisers and 1 Frigate. Much better by comparison, but still lacking in number of hulls (mostly because those Ambassadors won't clear the docks until 2321Q3), especially in the Frigate area. However, we know our current Frigate designs are falling behind, so as was mentioned below we have plans to design a new Miranda replacement in a couple of years and we will have the Kepler Science Frigate prototype starting construction 'soon' as well.
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- Location
- Australia
I may have been throwing out plot hooks.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
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Sydraxians have already flipped neutral. If by time of Snakepit their government has stabilized enough that we can push them, we should (if only to keep them neutral). Otherwise, my criteria would be:
If relations <100 and no special blocks to pushes (ie Sotaw): Push
If relations >100, but another polity is trying to diplomance them away, or they don't fit the usual affiliate mold (Yrillians): Push
If relations >100 otherwise: No push
Iirc we're penciling in a New Model Combat Frigate for 2319 or so. 2 years to research, 3 years to prototype, then 1.5 years (if built in Sol) each. We also will have Keplers done around 2321 iirc so expect a massive wave of them to start then. They are devastatingly effective minesweepers and will almost guarantee success in the scouting phase of a major fleet battle, too.
Remember, we're not fighting the Cardassians as "just" Starfleet. We have a considerable backstop in the form of current members, to say the least of potential future members and strong affiliates like the Qloathi and Seyek. We're also not sure if we'll need to like, super-invade them or anything. I think this will be determined in part by the doctrine we choose -- with Base Strike we'll probably make a big ball and crush their industry while using members to preserve ours, with Wolf Pack we'll remove their logistical lubricant bit by bit until they can't sustain any offensive, and with decisive battle remove enough tonnage we can just seal club anything else they produce.
I'm actually very curious what Cardassian war aims would be -- I assume it'd actually mostly be over the Gabriel Expanse and other resource colonies, and maybe forced neutrality of Seyek/Indorians/Apiata. I don't see them very interested in occupying Earth unless they were very determined or things went very wrong for us.
I'm actually very curious what Cardassian war aims would be -- I assume it'd actually mostly be over the Gabriel Expanse and other resource colonies, and maybe forced neutrality of Seyek/Indorians/Apiata. I don't see them very interested in occupying Earth unless they were very determined or things went very wrong for us.
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They're also expensive and intended for event response, not combat.
I know it's a little late to contribute to the previous discussion, but the NX technically counts as an Escort by 2300s standards, right?
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- Australia
Fwiw, the Cardassians also have the Konen, Goshawnar, Dylaarians, and anyone else they've picked up. Though their hold on some of the others is shaky, and the Lecarre are just not very useful in a fleet battle (though I can hear Linderley playing the Rocky theme song as he prepares for that counter-intel campaign), that knot of members is rather handy by itself.
It counts as a museum ship by 2300s standards.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
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- Philippines
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I like the mental image of this.
Jenny
anonymous user
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- maryland
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you not just fite cardasun you fite goshanar too we fite best