It's possible that we'd see Expansionist Gaeni Councilors, and I would naturally align them that way because they do have the exploratory bent. Remember when they brought the Liao home just to show them off to us? But it's also possible we'd see Development or Mercantile (remember the Gaeni are run by corporate science institutes). And a new faction, perhaps "Advancement" or similar, might also be possible.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
I think it us useful to think In terms of what each faction wants Starfleet to be used for. I think it goes something like this:
-Pacifists want us to conduct scientific and diplomatic functions both internally and externally, whilst avoiding conflict as much as possible. They accept that we may have to use force in a peacekeeping role, but regret it terribly.
(They would rather we had a modest fleet of cruisers and frigates for garrison duty supplemented by a few big explorers for 5YM and lots of little science ships)
-Hawks believe our main function is a strong defence of the Federation from all threats. The believe proactive use of force may be necessary.
(They want us to have strong garrison squadrons in every sector and a heavy strike fleet capable of going toe to toe with peer powers)
-Expansionists want us to focus on external exploration, supporting colonization, contacting new species and encouraging new members. They believe that the use of force is just in the defence of others.
(They want lots of 5YM and capable garrison squadrons on the periphary)
-Development would like us to provide protection for core Federation Territory but dont want Starfleet to draw too many resources from internal infrastructure in industrial projects.
(Modest internal garrisons and are very wary of those big resource sink 5YM)
-Merchantile wants us to keep the external and internal trade routes safe, and at the same time open new markets with foreign powers.
(They like our 5YM and border garrisons for supressing piracy)
-A theoretical Advancer faction would want us to prioritize science over anything else, only using force when directly threatened.
(All the Keplers. All of them. )
I expect that there are already large groups in Federation politics that would fit the Advancer label but due to a lack of organization or nucleating focus are currently split amongst the Pacifist, Expansionist and Development factions.
If the Geani ratify and want to form such a faction I could see it gaining support across the Federation.
-Pacifists want us to conduct scientific and diplomatic functions both internally and externally, whilst avoiding conflict as much as possible. They accept that we may have to use force in a peacekeeping role, but regret it terribly.
(They would rather we had a modest fleet of cruisers and frigates for garrison duty supplemented by a few big explorers for 5YM and lots of little science ships)
-Hawks believe our main function is a strong defence of the Federation from all threats. The believe proactive use of force may be necessary.
(They want us to have strong garrison squadrons in every sector and a heavy strike fleet capable of going toe to toe with peer powers)
-Expansionists want us to focus on external exploration, supporting colonization, contacting new species and encouraging new members. They believe that the use of force is just in the defence of others.
(They want lots of 5YM and capable garrison squadrons on the periphary)
-Development would like us to provide protection for core Federation Territory but dont want Starfleet to draw too many resources from internal infrastructure in industrial projects.
(Modest internal garrisons and are very wary of those big resource sink 5YM)
-Merchantile wants us to keep the external and internal trade routes safe, and at the same time open new markets with foreign powers.
(They like our 5YM and border garrisons for supressing piracy)
-A theoretical Advancer faction would want us to prioritize science over anything else, only using force when directly threatened.
(All the Keplers. All of them. )
I expect that there are already large groups in Federation politics that would fit the Advancer label but due to a lack of organization or nucleating focus are currently split amongst the Pacifist, Expansionist and Development factions.
If the Geani ratify and want to form such a faction I could see it gaining support across the Federation.
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Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Starfleet won't like it though. Starfleet may be largely expansionist but it also leans pacifist. Violence isn't something they're eager to engage in.
And clueless in military concerns and self aggrandizement in leaders tends to result in messy, expensive wars or a neglect of military capacity. Especially when the military doesn't feel they can trust their leadership.
Actually, that would be a definite thing Starfleet (or at least Star Trek) would get involved in, even if only tangentially.
She might be disappointed. She's gone out of her way to be disliked and Starfleet can tell the President no.
I still think the Pacifists would just shuffle their priorities slightly and absorb what would become a Science party, if such it really were about to form. They have no strong disagreements with each other, unless I am missing something, and mostly want the same things, even if they differ a bit in which of the things they want are the most important.
All it would take is Stesk announcing that he now considers Science ultra-super-mega-awesome instead of just mega-awesome.
Something that could prevent this though is that the Gaeni could dislike the Pacifists a bit after the tantrum they threw during the Licori crisis. I have already mentioned that it would be a nice curveball if the Gaeni became a bit hawkish because of their recent experiences.
All it would take is Stesk announcing that he now considers Science ultra-super-mega-awesome instead of just mega-awesome.
Something that could prevent this though is that the Gaeni could dislike the Pacifists a bit after the tantrum they threw during the Licori crisis. I have already mentioned that it would be a nice curveball if the Gaeni became a bit hawkish because of their recent experiences.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
There's also an interesting relationship with the merchant marine. Both of these factions want to expand resource exploitation and trade (with some differing priorities between the two), but they'd rather do that with their own member merchant marine. They don't care so much about the Starfleet's own merchant marine, except that they don't want Starfleet to federalize their own member auxiliaries. Which means they want Starfleet to be more self-sufficient.
The other factions don't care so as much, even if the hawks and expansionists would tend to want a larger Starfleet.
There's also a recognition of the major role Starfleet has with exploring new colony locations, although there's probably some annoyance by the development faction that Starfleet keeps claiming all the mining colony sites they find.
Well TBH, an "advancer" faction originating from the Gaeni would be pretty odd in the Federation.
Typically you have parties that align and prioritize on one of the political axes/spectrums, and you'd naturally have opposition from the other end of that political axis. In the Federation, rather than left vs right wing, there's the two orthogonal (for the most part) political axes of expansionist vs development and pacifist vs hawk.
The mercantile faction are odd ducks out here. They're generally neutral on the above spectrums, but they do have their own political axis of capitalism vs the Federation version of money-less socialism.
But, a "science advancement" faction? None of the existing factions, none of the populace are against science. Like, what position are these guys going to take that others are going to disagree with? If it's about allowing the Gaeni brand of mad science, it's not like the Federation is going to inhibit them other than enforcing the ban of forbidden technology that the Gaeni don't seem to be interested in anyway. Their technology and engineering are considered crazy by even Human standards, but it's not considered recklessly dangerous to civilization. What is their policy going to be that they think other factions may disagree with?
I mean, just to be clear, an advancer faction could work. But it would make much more sense coming out of the Orions or Licori (if the latter ever become members) due to the various bans and prejudices against genetic augmentation, or other trans-sophonist themes, that they favor. Much of the Federation is hostile to the notion, or neutral at best, so this advancer faction do have a policy that they can fight for.
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
An advancer faction would be more like a cross-party caucus or something.
Basically people who will jump ship from their normal party on that issue.
This never happens IRL, but IRL you almost never have politicans from pacifist and hawk factions having the same degree of respect Stesk and a lot of the Hawks seem to have. N'Gir's the first Council level politician we've seen have her competence questioned IC. We questioned Stesk's competence a lot in the leadup to the Arcadian war ... and then it turned out he had very good reasons to slowfoot because we'd not yet acquired really vital data and the FDS was pushing the war for their own reasons.
Given how ... professionally respectful the various council-members have been I take the Expansionist and Pacifist criticism of N'Gir very seriously. We've NEVER seen anyone on the council actually trash-talk the ability or intelligence of other members save that time. They may disgree with each other, but they never say that kind of shit because you don't normally get this far up the tree without being very smart and skilled.
EX: The Hawks may disagree with Stesk on a lot, but can you imagine one of them calling him a coward or an idiot? Or thinking he's not dangerous in his own way? NO!
The other big thing that pisses me off about N'Gir is that she apparently thinks Starfleet is full of morons who have somehow reached flag rank without doing basic reading on grand strategy. Remember this, from the Arcadian Crisis?
It's also being an ungrateful bitch, but that's small potatoes compared to thinking STARFLEET is going to pull a Bush and declare victory before rebuilding what we blew up.
I mean can you imagine Stesk saying that?
If we approached Stesk for something he'd be like "Oh cool, I never doubted you'd be up for rebuilding what was destroyed, but I'm especially glad to see it's a very high priority. Now let us figure out how we're going to get everyone else on side and willing to do their part. And get our planning staffs talking."
Basically people who will jump ship from their normal party on that issue.
This never happens IRL, but IRL you almost never have politicans from pacifist and hawk factions having the same degree of respect Stesk and a lot of the Hawks seem to have. N'Gir's the first Council level politician we've seen have her competence questioned IC. We questioned Stesk's competence a lot in the leadup to the Arcadian war ... and then it turned out he had very good reasons to slowfoot because we'd not yet acquired really vital data and the FDS was pushing the war for their own reasons.
Given how ... professionally respectful the various council-members have been I take the Expansionist and Pacifist criticism of N'Gir very seriously. We've NEVER seen anyone on the council actually trash-talk the ability or intelligence of other members save that time. They may disgree with each other, but they never say that kind of shit because you don't normally get this far up the tree without being very smart and skilled.
EX: The Hawks may disagree with Stesk on a lot, but can you imagine one of them calling him a coward or an idiot? Or thinking he's not dangerous in his own way? NO!
The other big thing that pisses me off about N'Gir is that she apparently thinks Starfleet is full of morons who have somehow reached flag rank without doing basic reading on grand strategy. Remember this, from the Arcadian Crisis?
This is N'Gir assuming that Starfleet was going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into winning the peace. Or in other words, that all the admirals and everyone in planning are morons. Anyone who knows a damn thing about history or grand strategy knows that wrecking a nation and going home NEVER ends well.
It's also being an ungrateful bitch, but that's small potatoes compared to thinking STARFLEET is going to pull a Bush and declare victory before rebuilding what we blew up.
I mean can you imagine Stesk saying that?
If we approached Stesk for something he'd be like "Oh cool, I never doubted you'd be up for rebuilding what was destroyed, but I'm especially glad to see it's a very high priority. Now let us figure out how we're going to get everyone else on side and willing to do their part. And get our planning staffs talking."
Captain's Log - 2316.Q3.M3
- Location
- Australia
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 26117.5
Ambassador Levar Cushing has joined us for a trip to Amarkia as part of discussions into the Amarkian colony situation. After picking him up at Alpha Centauri, we are moving through the Tellar Sector, and making good time.
-
Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 26118.4
We are being scrambled by the Starbase at Vega. A sensor contact is coming in from the Sydraxians at high speed. As of yet we have no identification or intentions. It is not a large contact, too small for a Hasque. Possibly an Yrililan corsair. In any event, we want Starfleet to be the first people they meet when they reach Federation space.
-
Captain's Log, USS Endurance, Stardate 26119.1
Following the spate of mutinies among cargo ships crews, we have been helping Starfleet Intelligence and the Caitian Frontier Police run an investigation into the cause, and we believe that we have finally tracked it down. Together with the USS Bull, we will be running an operation to flush out the suspected ring-leader.
-
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 26119.5
With the Hishmeri only a year or so away from this patch of space, we are mapping intensively, making sure we've scoped out the prospective dance floor. Unfortunately, we're picking up something with our long-range sensors that we really would prefer not to: radio waves.
-
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 26120.1
A powerful ion storm has broken out over this region of space. It has been a few years since the last significant outbreak, and we thought they had died down. Unfortunately, our stellar cartography department failed to see this one coming, and we're having to batten down the hatches.
-
Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 26120.3
I must say, out of all the possible identities of our high-speed guests, refugees from the fall of another Sydraxian government was not high on the list. Members of the Greens faction are requesting sanctuary with the Federation. The Graduates have collapsed the Reds and the last of the old-guard of the Hierarchy have been removed. What happens from here, nobody knows.
[+10pp, political football encountered]
-
Captain's Log, USS Bull, Stardate 26120.8
The mutineer-in-chief is suspected to be a former Syndicate member who escaped the fall of Celos somehow. She is believed to be hiding under an assumed name on the station orbiting Bradia. A notedly paranoid customer, we are going to pay the station a visit, while the Endurance stands by to track any ships or shuttles making an unplanned exit.
-
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 26121.4
One ion bolt nearly stripped our shields when we got too close, but we have come through the storm intact.
My aim for the rest of the trip is to leave the Ambassador to his preparations, and spend it with the Chief Science Officer looking to find out just how our Stellar Cartography department ended up being flummoxed by this ion storm!
[Gain +10pp for arriving intact]
-
Captain's Log, USS Endurance, Stardate 25122.1
The plan has worked, and the former Syndicate agent has been captured in interstellar space, hopefully where she none of her associates will have a chance to see it. Bringing the Orion authorities into this investigation should allow us to roll up their operation swiftly.
[Gain +5pp, +25 relations with Orion]
-
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25122.4
We have good news, and we have bad news.
The bad news is that there is no good news.
The radio waves belonged to a pre-warp civilisation, and the Hishmeri have already found them. This could get interesting.
[Lose -10pp]
-
Bridge, USS Atuin, Stardate 25122.5
"Lieutenant, pass this back to Ferasa Task Force Command and EC Mission Control, would you?"
-
Flag Bridge, USS Endurance, Stardate 25122.6
"Commodore, this just came in for you."
"Thank you, Yeoman. Oh, it's from Captain Chad on the Atui-oh dear, Yeoman, could you pass this up to Sector?"
-
Mission Control, Starbase 7 (Ferasa Orbit), Stardate 25122.7
"Admiral, I have an urgent message from Commodore Rawlings."
"Best let me see it, then, Yeoman ... and never mind, straight through to the Vice Admiral at Theatre, Yeoman."
-
Theatre Command, Starbase 5 (Amarkia), Stardate 25123.1
"Thank you for the tea, Yeoman. Send through the morning communiques to my computer. ... Yeoman, prepare a dispatch for Admiral Chen."
-
Commander, Starfleet's Office, San Francisco, Stardate 25123.5
"Admiral, I just received word that there is a pre-warp civ-"
"Yes, I know, the Explorer Corps told me hours ago, but I've already got the powerbroker of the Hawks faction halfway between the transporter room and here, I have summons with the President and three separate Development dominated Council committees, and Linderley is telling me that on Dar Nakar the Reds are dying in the streets, the Greens have run for the hills, the Blues are holding together by the skin of their teeth and the Graduates and Vanguard are fighting for the future of the Hierarchy."
"I see. Sounds like quite the conundrum. Well, good luck, Admiral Sulu."
"And you, Admiral Chen."
-
Ambassador Levar Cushing has joined us for a trip to Amarkia as part of discussions into the Amarkian colony situation. After picking him up at Alpha Centauri, we are moving through the Tellar Sector, and making good time.
-
Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 26118.4
We are being scrambled by the Starbase at Vega. A sensor contact is coming in from the Sydraxians at high speed. As of yet we have no identification or intentions. It is not a large contact, too small for a Hasque. Possibly an Yrililan corsair. In any event, we want Starfleet to be the first people they meet when they reach Federation space.
-
Captain's Log, USS Endurance, Stardate 26119.1
Following the spate of mutinies among cargo ships crews, we have been helping Starfleet Intelligence and the Caitian Frontier Police run an investigation into the cause, and we believe that we have finally tracked it down. Together with the USS Bull, we will be running an operation to flush out the suspected ring-leader.
-
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 26119.5
With the Hishmeri only a year or so away from this patch of space, we are mapping intensively, making sure we've scoped out the prospective dance floor. Unfortunately, we're picking up something with our long-range sensors that we really would prefer not to: radio waves.
-
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 26120.1
A powerful ion storm has broken out over this region of space. It has been a few years since the last significant outbreak, and we thought they had died down. Unfortunately, our stellar cartography department failed to see this one coming, and we're having to batten down the hatches.
-
Captain's Log, USS Cheron, Stardate 26120.3
I must say, out of all the possible identities of our high-speed guests, refugees from the fall of another Sydraxian government was not high on the list. Members of the Greens faction are requesting sanctuary with the Federation. The Graduates have collapsed the Reds and the last of the old-guard of the Hierarchy have been removed. What happens from here, nobody knows.
[+10pp, political football encountered]
-
Captain's Log, USS Bull, Stardate 26120.8
The mutineer-in-chief is suspected to be a former Syndicate member who escaped the fall of Celos somehow. She is believed to be hiding under an assumed name on the station orbiting Bradia. A notedly paranoid customer, we are going to pay the station a visit, while the Endurance stands by to track any ships or shuttles making an unplanned exit.
-
Captain's Log, USS Voshov, Stardate 26121.4
One ion bolt nearly stripped our shields when we got too close, but we have come through the storm intact.
My aim for the rest of the trip is to leave the Ambassador to his preparations, and spend it with the Chief Science Officer looking to find out just how our Stellar Cartography department ended up being flummoxed by this ion storm!
[Gain +10pp for arriving intact]
-
Captain's Log, USS Endurance, Stardate 25122.1
The plan has worked, and the former Syndicate agent has been captured in interstellar space, hopefully where she none of her associates will have a chance to see it. Bringing the Orion authorities into this investigation should allow us to roll up their operation swiftly.
[Gain +5pp, +25 relations with Orion]
-
Captain's Log, USS Atuin, Stardate 25122.4
We have good news, and we have bad news.
The bad news is that there is no good news.
The radio waves belonged to a pre-warp civilisation, and the Hishmeri have already found them. This could get interesting.
[Lose -10pp]
-
Bridge, USS Atuin, Stardate 25122.5
"Lieutenant, pass this back to Ferasa Task Force Command and EC Mission Control, would you?"
-
Flag Bridge, USS Endurance, Stardate 25122.6
"Commodore, this just came in for you."
"Thank you, Yeoman. Oh, it's from Captain Chad on the Atui-oh dear, Yeoman, could you pass this up to Sector?"
-
Mission Control, Starbase 7 (Ferasa Orbit), Stardate 25122.7
"Admiral, I have an urgent message from Commodore Rawlings."
"Best let me see it, then, Yeoman ... and never mind, straight through to the Vice Admiral at Theatre, Yeoman."
-
Theatre Command, Starbase 5 (Amarkia), Stardate 25123.1
"Thank you for the tea, Yeoman. Send through the morning communiques to my computer. ... Yeoman, prepare a dispatch for Admiral Chen."
-
Commander, Starfleet's Office, San Francisco, Stardate 25123.5
"Admiral, I just received word that there is a pre-warp civ-"
"Yes, I know, the Explorer Corps told me hours ago, but I've already got the powerbroker of the Hawks faction halfway between the transporter room and here, I have summons with the President and three separate Development dominated Council committees, and Linderley is telling me that on Dar Nakar the Reds are dying in the streets, the Greens have run for the hills, the Blues are holding together by the skin of their teeth and the Graduates and Vanguard are fighting for the future of the Hierarchy."
"I see. Sounds like quite the conundrum. Well, good luck, Admiral Sulu."
"And you, Admiral Chen."
-
What makes this truly ridiculous is that the whole Anti-Syndicate Campaign ended in 2314-Q1 while the Arcadia Crisis started just nine months later and ended a mere eight months after that and both happened under Admiral Sousa's term.
Remember what we did throughout the Anti-Syndicate Campaign? We kept helping rebuild Orion! This isn't something N'Gir could have missed given how recent it was. And yet somehow N'Gir thought Sousa would be against rebuilding the Licori when Sousa was one of the big pushers for helping to rebuild the Orions. Madness!
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fudgenuggets.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Well this is going to be interesting.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I meant that?
/Shrug.
That's not how prototypes work...
Oops. Let's pick another letter.
SpcS?
Yay?
Frowning_Stesk.webm
Well..
That sounds like fun.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Shiiiit, double crisis.
- Location
- somewhere
@OneirosTheWriter in case you are doing the research results next just a quick reminder you forgot about ch'Shennaryth's medical research bonus last year (unless that has been retconned?)
Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
Well, if anything history will certainly remember joining up with the Cardassians being one the worst decisions of the Sydraxian Hierarchy.
Let's hope that pre-warp civ hasn't been hit yet, or lasts long enough for us to save anything but ashes.
Let's hope that pre-warp civ hasn't been hit yet, or lasts long enough for us to save anything but ashes.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
It's implied that they have.
At this point, the Sept have a presumably Class-M to strip mine.
Radio implies a modern-age or information age Civ, so this is very bad.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, we've got a full up Sydraxian Civil War, and any chance of diplomacy beyond "surrender unconditionally or die" with the Hishimari just vanished.
I have no doubt that the hawks would like us to drop a fleetball on the Hishimari's ass.
I have no doubt that the hawks would like us to drop a fleetball on the Hishimari's ass.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
I'm pretty sure it's Monday.So a regular Tuesday in Starfleet then
I find this a very interesting look into how regular Starfleet vs. the Explorer Corps works. Chad sent the message off to both the local (regular) Starfleet HQ and the EC HQ. Regular Starfleet progressed through the departments going from Task Force Command -> Sector Command -> Theater Command -> Operations Command -> Starfleet Commander. The Explorer Corps meanwhile likely went straight from Mission Control -> Ainsworth -> Sulu if they didn't skip Ainsworth and go directly to Sulu.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Well, things are certainly happening aren't they?
Edit: Ok had to take a moment to refresh my memory of things.
Edit: Ok had to take a moment to refresh my memory of things.
As much as we can decry the bloodshed this is the most positive outcome for us, the Graduates want out of the pact and the Vanguard are willing join the Federation. Either way both of these factions no longer want to fight us, which is good.
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Of note, this step took until Theatre Command picked up their morning tea and communiques, a full 0.4 stardates.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Okay, first wow what a clusterfuck. So this is what you meant with your "Oh dear" a couple days ago. It's been over a year since our last crisis, time for two more!
Second, I love how much more direct of a line the Explorer Corps has to the Commander of Starfleet than through the burgeoning bureaucracy of Starfleet Operations. Although it is concerning.
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Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
- Location
- The Future
Why do we lose pp for a situation we couldn't know or prevent? It's not like we were connected with pre-warp civilization at all.