Anyway, the point is if we sunk cost ourselves into building additional Excelsior-A past about the Ambassador prototype completion date, we've messed up in my opinion. Or at least, we should be considering alternatives.

e: There is of course the question of if we want to build a ship like the Excelsior once the Ambassador is available. I've seen arguments both yes and no.
 
Last edited:
Anyway, the point is if we sunk cost ourselves into building additional Excelsior-A past about the Ambassador prototype completion date, we've messed up in my opinion. Or at least, we should be considering alternatives.

This I agree with. Barring some major losses, we'll have enough Excelsiors by then to anchor all our sector fleets and still have some left over for the EC. After that, we can spend all our EC crew on the ambassadors, and all our starfleet crew on Keplers, Renaissances, and whatever the Miranda-A replacement ends up being.
 
Last edited:
Well... just for the sake of putting numbers to the comparisons:

The Excelsior-A is C7 S6 H4 L6 P6 D6

A pocket explorer with similar costs (an unoptimized 230/180 6/6/5) would be about C7 S7 H6 L7 P7 D7, so +1S +2H +1L +1P +1D for a total of +6 stats. I suspect I can cut about 10 SR.

A pocket explorer with similar stats would be an unoptimized 180/150 5/5/4 with the same C7 S6 H4 L6 P6 D6 and 4y build time. So savings of about 50 BR, 10 SR, 1O 1T. I suspect I can make that 1 crew all around and 20 SR.

Basically, it's technically worth doing, but we've sunk cost into the Ambassador more than anything. If we choose to continue building Excelsiors after the Ambassador is available to build, or if we plan on building Excelsiors, I would suggest we designate that Light Explorer instead.


e: OH, and C7 is really expensive, so I could probably produce a superior ship at C6 or even C5, even for combat.

This is promising, but we also don't have the research teams (and RP) for light explorer class in the near future. The next ships we're designing will be frigate(s), and then likely a heavy cruiser as opposed to a "pocket explorer"*. By then around the 2320s, that heavy cruiser will probably designed to be Excelsior-sized or 2mt that has superior stats to the Excelsior-A.

* I'm also assuming that abusing the pocket explorer concept for the lone ranger bonuses may cause the most egregious bonuses to be revisited.

I will become sad if we start calling Excelsiors "capital ships" instead of "explorers." It'll feel like we'd forgotten what we built them for. :(

I'm sure Starfleet still refers to Excelsiors as explorers. "Capital ship" just remains the technical designation that probably isn't common parlance.

Heck, the term "battlecruiser" seems to be more common than "capital ship" when referring to non-Starfleet capital ships. Enemies also tend to refer to Excelsiors as battlecruisers.

There won't be much impetus to change this, until a class is designed that is not capital ship-sized yet is intended for long-term exploration (think Intrepid) and thus force disambiguation between "capital ship" and "explorer" terms.
 
This I agree with. Barring some major losses, we'll have enough Excelsiors by then to anchor all our sector fleets and still have some left over for the EC. After that, we can spend all our EC crew on the ambassadors, and all our starfleet crew on Keplers, Renaissances, and whatever the Miranda-A replacement ends up being.

I personally see the argument for building a light capital ship for sector purposes, not nearly at the pace we're putting out Excelsiors mind you, but one every year to year and a half would keep up with sector needs. Getting such a ship into the research stage about 2321-2323 or so seems right to me.


This is promising, but we also don't have the research teams (and RP) for light explorer class in the near future. The next ships we're designing will be frigate(s), and then likely a heavy cruiser as opposed to a "pocket explorer"*. By then around the 2320s, that heavy cruiser will probably designed to be Excelsior-sized or 2mt that has superior stats to the Excelsior-A.

* I'm also assuming that abusing the pocket explorer concept for the lone ranger bonuses may cause the most egregious bonuses to be revisited.

Cruisers don't really compare to capships very well in my opinion. The design space for cruisers is quite poor.

e: Mocked up a cruiser comparable to the Excelsior-A:
Excelsior-A stats. 180/140 and 5/6/5 crew, 3.5y build time. Doesn't look like much optimization room, maybe 3.25y build time?
 
Last edited:
Given that we do have all these Excelsiors lying around, I think the idea of a light explorer sector flagship might be better thrown around some time in the early 2320s, as an alternative/replacement to the Excelsior-As that incorporates better technology to outperform them on a smaller platform.

At that point, a more crew-efficient, marginally superior ship for garrison duty may appeal, especially if it can fit in two and 2.5-megaton berths while the three-megaton berths turn out Ambassadors.

Though by that point we may be combat cap limited and not crew limited. I'm not sure.
 
Last edited:
Given that we do have all these Excelsiors lying around, I think the idea of a light explorer sector flagship might be better thrown around some time in the early 2320s, as an alternative/replacement to the Excelsior-As that incorporates better technology to outperform them on a smaller platform.

What counts as "light" and "heavy" changes as time passes. The Constitution used to be considered a heavy cruiser or capship. Now its a light cruiser. The Excelsior, likewise, used to be a superheavy explorer. Once the Ambassador comes out though, it suddenly looks rather light in comparison.

For the past 150 years, capships have grown steadily bigger and bigger and dragged the size of other ship classes up with them. Canonically, this trend doesn't reverse until the later half of the twenty-fourth century, after hitting its xenith with the Galaxy, D'deridex, and Neghvar.
 
Last edited:
Is it worth writing an omake that'd probably be pretty boring (A conversation between cooks on an Oberth) just for the sake of a really terrible pun?

Arthur C. Clarke did it for Neutron Tide. So yes, yes it is.
So too did Roger Zelazny for Lord of Light, allegedly. Though the rest of the story is not boring, so perhaps Neutron Tide is a better example.
"Then the fit hit the Shan."
 
What counts as "light" and "heavy" changes as time passes. The Constitution used to be considered a heavy cruiser or capship. Now its a light cruiser. The Excelsior, likewise, used to be a superheavy explorer. Once the Ambassador comes out though, it suddenly looks rather light in comparison.

For the past 150 years, capships have grown steadily bigger and bigger and dragged the size of other ship classes up with them. Canonically, this trend doesn't reverse until the later half of the twenty-fourth century, after hitting its xenith with the Galaxy, D'deridex, and Neghvar.
I don't disagree.

My basic point is simply that the Excelsior, as a (refitted) 2280-era design, is inevitably going to look a little flabby compared to the kind of 1.8- or two-megaton cruiser or 'light explorer' we can design by 2320 or 2330. Even if the Excelsior has comparable stats, the hull is likely to be overcrewed and unnecessarily large compared to what could be achieved with a new design that straddles the line between 'heavy cruisers' and 'light explorers.' And there's a fairly good chance we'll have hull designs that are lighter AND leaner-crewed AND outperform the Excelsior-A... at which point, it starts making a lot of sense to adopt the design.

But as long as we have this huge Excelsior force and replacing it would cost thousands of resource points, and many berth-years of construction time, for little or no direct improvement in fleet stats... It's less important/desirable to do that.
 
While it is many game years before we have to make these decisions, I am currently leaning towards EC getting most of the Ambassadors (and if lose the Enterprise-B between now and then, making the second Ambassador the Enterprise-C) with an occasional model used to bulk up the general fleet.
An Excelsior-A (or two if we have excess) in every sector, supported by Rennies, Keplers and older models.
The Human fleet we already know want to field Ambassadors, I am sure that there are other members that will want their own as well.
 
Last edited:
I would allocate the Ambassadors to the EC exclusively, and also go for the luxury Ambassador designs.
 
It occurs to me that I'm going to have to edit the chain of possession on that "NX-01 Enterprise" patch that I've had the Enterprise Captains passing down from Captain to Captain as they take command of Enterprise.

And considering that the Daedalus Enterprise was lost with all hands according to history... the only way for that Patch to have moved between the Daedalus Captain and the Ranger Captain is right here -right now!

> : S

Either that or Archer did start the chain with the first Constitution captain right before he died. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...Still, on the level of the "Meta", I do like that idea of this patch that had popped up once or twice during the To Boldly Go series becoming a reoccurring motif throughout the movie (This is obviously the First TBG Feature Picture not just regular episodes) and carrying a bit of dramatic weight to it.

Especially, say, all of the other captains having their occurrences of the patch and showing that to Archer in some sort of emotional mid movie scene because he's sort of the father of the line of Starfleet Enterprise captains. (This is also sort of a neat way for all of them to know that this is no trick because of this thing that's not really known outside of the fraternity/sorority/whatever-the-gender-neutral-term-is-ity of Enterprise Captains.)
 
2315.Q2.M2 - These Are The Voyages... Pt6
The very existence of what those crews in the know referred to jokingly as the Zeroth Battle of Alpha Centauri goes ten million years as a dread secret. But for those who were there, the reckless charge of the Lion into the fray is the stuff of legend. By far the most nimble ship in the system, its impulse engines flare hot as it pushes inertial dampers to the limit. By closing to point blank, it bypasses the trump card of the Mentat, and her phasers rake the hull of the ship, burning out the shield generators. Finally main power goes out on the Blank Slate, and the Mentat Betarre, fists clenched and tears in her eyes, surrenders her crew. It was hardly a moment too soon, as no sooner had the last crew been beamed off and into brigs across the impromptu fleet the Blank Slate immolates itself in a terrifyingly large blast.

-

With the Mentat's mission completely foiled, the little task force of starships Enterprise, plus one Lion, begin the trek back to Aga Carmide, a much more sedate, less stressful voyage in this direction. The crew of the Blank Slate is debriefed. Unsurprisingly, most of the regular crew not only didn't know the mission, but didn't even know they had gone back in time. The officers, meanwhile, are a fifty-fifty mix of mentats and Arcadian Imperial Navy, who knew of the last ditch plan. But the knot of Mentats that know of the actual temporal anomaly is small and fanatical. For a long time, they resist any effort to coax the information out of them. In the end, it wasn't the science officers who extract the details, but the Engineers, a few bottles of definitely-not-synthehol, and a casual chat.

-

"The damnedest thing, sir," says Scotty. "The conditions for the temporal anomaly have always existed in Aga Carmide, but the actual anomaly itself never existed until 2315 ... at which point of creation it flowed backwards."

"Backwards?" repeats Kirk.

"Aye, sir, backwards," the engineer affirms. "It will cease to exist in 2316. However, with the destruction of the temporal engine on the Blank Slate it is starting to flow forwards again, but it's lost a lot of stability. We need to hightail it back to to Aga Carmide, or we'll be stuck here. And frankly Captain, it's already too late to meet the dinosaurs, so I'm not sure if there's anything I'd be interested in seeing on ten million year old earth if we got stuck here."

-

"So what happened to the research colony?" asks Nash on a subspace comm to the still barely-functional Enterprise-B.

"They were still caught in some manner of closed loop temporal pocket, having been caught right on the fringes of the anomaly," explains the science officer. "I was able to figure out what happened, because it nearly happened to us when we went through. I had had to make some very rapid changes to the deflector dish to get us through without a disaster at the time. A lot of things that we didn't have a chance to look into at first. But with all the very slow going repairs we had some time."

"It's back now?"

"Yes, Captain, but, uh..."

"Don't leave me in suspense now."

The science officer grimaces. "They'd spent a solid twenty years stuck in their temporal pocket. On the other hand, they've made some astounding advances in temporal research? And some other stuff they tell me aren't save to tell me about."

-

It is with considerable resignation and defeatism that Mentat Betarre shares the trick to matching temporal wavelength signatures with the anomaly, and the NX-01 returns through it to its original timeline. Not long after that, the Ranger-class Enterprise reactivates the anomaly and it too passes ten million years into the future as if through a wormhole. But as the wormhole closes behind the NCC-1701, it collapses to a very low energy state, threatening to strand the rest of the Starfleet crew. It takes the accumulated temporal research of the Aga Carmide staff to devise a way to use the massive antimatter storage of the USS Enterprise-B to open the way home again in a titanic blast of energy. But with the use of that energy, there is no way to form the subspace field that will propel the Enterprise-B back to safety. Samhaya Mrr'shan's final act as Captain of that proud ship is to declare an anti-matter based self-destruct, to sacrifice the Enterprise to eradicate all trace of human involvement in the system ten million years in the past, and to allow the USS Lion to return home triumphantly, with Maria Volkov, Samhaya Mrr'shan, Nash ka'Sharren, and Mentat Betarre on the bridge.

-

"One thing I want to know," you say, as you look around at the legends of yesterday, waiting for news of Nash. "You two fellows from Intelligence, what are you here for?"

"We handle Temporal Affairs, Admiral," says the first, a very nondescript human.

That answer makes you frown. "What office are you from?" you ask.

"Unofficially, Admiral, it's Office 0," answers the unmarked officer. "Officially, there is no officially."

"We don't have an Office 0," you reply sharply.

The two Intelligence operatives exchange a look and Linderley coughs. "That's ... not entirely accurate, Admiral."

You give Linderley a very flat, unfriendly look. "Vice Admiral, what did you do?"

Linderley gives you a look of pure surprise. "They've been here since well before my time. Well before zh'Rhashaan's time, as well."

"Then when was this office formed?" you ask instead.

"Two years from now, from the researchers of the Aga Carmide research colony," says the intelligence officer matter-of-factly.

You stare at him and finally look down and rub at your temples in frustration. "I know how you feel," you hear McCoy say. "I have a hypospray loaded with analgesics that will help with that headache."

============================================

Arcadian-Federation War has fully transitioned from being a Starfleet concern to an FDS concern. May be a future cause of issues.

LBZ now requires, for the next few years, a garrison of 20 Defence.

The USS Enterprise-B has been lost during a temporal anomaly, however, all ship and crew have been recovered. An option will be presented to either wholesale move the crew to a new ship, which will commission as Veteran, or to split the crew up and give three +1 Crew Rating bonuses. The USS Lion Miranda has returned from a temporal anomaly, and has been re-added to the fleet register.

For actions securing victory within six months, Starfleet gains +125pp, +75rp.

[ ] Redeploy the fleet, to take effect 2315.Q3

============================================

QM/N: I'm going to try to keep things moving through years faster, and reduce events and interruptions for a while. They've nice to do every now and again, but we've had a glut of them, and it's starting to bog things down I feel, and I'd like to start seeing the years tick over again.
 
Well. It was quite a sendoff.

I think we should definitely wait for the Ambassador project to finish prototyping before commissioning the Enterprise-C.
 
Back
Top