I don't see the problem with a Gaeni Ambassador-class. The base ship is A. highly reliable and B. designed with the assumption that crack crews will be tweaking them into peaky Ace Customs. So yeah they'll do their usual high-risk science stuff but on a ship where the design assumes people will do things like that.
 
I think the bulk of what AKuz said is really smart. Though I disagree about whether, as a matter of fact, our war aims have been achieved.

Our xenopsychologists seem to feel that the Tartresis are most closely aligned with Federation values and would make for better long term neighbors. We care for the same reason we care which new faction of the Sydraxian government takes power.
That said, I'd settle for a Bene government and not complain... if I were reasonably confident of the Bene not playing any quid pro quo games that blow up half the quadrant.

Okay. Guys. Lets ask ourselves a question here.

Is there any reason for us to oppose a Bene ascension besides the fact that the Romulans want it and therefore we need to be against it on principle?

Furthermore, is there anything that would stop the Romulans from just courting the Tartesis instead, if suddenly they pulled ahead?
The big reason is that the Romulans might acquire weapons so powerful that, combined with their own technology (cloaks) and greater industrial output, they could easily overpower the Klingons. While the Romulans winning the war isn't necessarily bad, the Romulans winning the war quickly and decisively and actually getting stronger rather than weaker as a result is a very alarming prospect. Especially if the resulting RSE is armed with, say, cloaked warbirds that carry trilithium star-breaker bombs as a matter of course, and are accustomed to use them.

However, I think our best move is what AKuz suggested- to simply broker a deal that provides for long-term power sharing between Bene and Tartresis, in a way that is to Bene's short-term advantage, thus removing the Bene incentive to cooperate with the Romulans in ways that might endanger the quadrant as a whole.

I will oppose any attempt to turn this into a war of regime change. Doing so would destroy any pretense of moral superiority we have.
You're about half a year too late. One of the premises that came out of the diplomatic summit was that we'd be able to work with a new post-war regime.
In addition to this being totally correct...

We already changed the regime, because we just accidentally exploded the old regime. Unless one is planning to go back in time and save the previous emperor, which to be fair is actually an option in Star Trek, we're pretty much stuck with regime change. The question isn't if we support a regime change in Licori space. It's how we do so.

It's way too early for any Yan-Ros to even be in Starfleet. They only became affiliates in 2313.Q3... less than two years ago! No Yan-Ros have even made it through the Academy yet.
There could be a few isolated outliers who didn't come in through the Academy. A few.

has...

And huh, so the Romulans were/are helping the Arcadians. I wasn't expecting that considering the short time frame since their discovery and the chaotic nature of the war as well as the fact that the Romulans should be focused on their own war (plus it feels a bit clichee that a) the intrigue faction is helped by the Roms...
The Romulans may well have known about the Licori longer than we have, for one. For another, this kind of operation doesn't necessarily cost the Romulans very much, and the payoff is potentially huge if the Bene-dominated Licori species funnels advanced technology back to Romulus.

For that matter, it could be that House Bene sought out and contacted the Romulans themselves, at some earlier point in time. Because even if somehow there was no contact between the two species before we met the Licori, they would have found out about the Romulans through us soon enough.

The Romulans are starting to go to war with the Klingons. They aren't going to be bothering us for a long time. And it's not like we can stop them getting their hands on the Mentat making process or the device used to trigger stellar collapse, which is all they need.
If the Romulans learn how to blow up stars, their war with the Klingons might turn out to be much shorter than any of us had predicted.

Nope. Protomatter, and a boy genius. But what was discovered once can be discovered again.
Furthermore, the Romulans themselves may not know we don't have Genesis devices in reserve.

It would help to explain why 'historically,' no one TRIED to develop arsenals of planet or star-breaking WMD even though we know the technology emerged as early as the late 23rd century
 
Huh, I wonder how that Star Trek quest over on SV is going- it's been what, 8 months? There's probably a decent backlog of story posts by now...

TBG: [[~1800 pages]]

Hoookay. Talk about warp speed!

TBG: [[Intensely nostalgic Captain's Logs]]
TBG: [[Spreadsheets]]
TBG: [[Excellent 3D artwork/animation and funny stick figures]]
TBG: [[More Spreadsheets]]
TBG: [[Brilliant omakes]]

Okay, it took a week, but I made it! I'm at the-

TBG: [[1900 pages]]

*dies from awesome*

Seriously though- everybody who's posted in this thread deserves a pat on the back, and by that metric I probably owe Oneiros a bear hug for this transcendently Trek quest. Everything that made Star Trek special to me growing up, only thousands and thousands of words of it, and more to come. Thank you all. I'll see if I can bring something to the table too!
 
In addition to this being totally correct...

We already changed the regime, because we just accidentally exploded the old regime. Unless one is planning to go back in time and save the previous emperor, which to be fair is actually an option in Star Trek, we're pretty much stuck with regime change. The question isn't if we support a regime change in Licori space. It's how we do so.

As I already pointed out, SWB's account of how things went was patently false. At no point did we encourage or support the Tartresis to overthrow the government. We tried to establish contacts with them so we could negotiate peace easier, but that's very different from trying to put them in power.

I agree our actions have inadvertently led to the Morshadd regime collapsing, but that doesn't mean we have to support a regime change. What we should be doing and what I expect the Council to ask us to do is to stay out of the succession crisis and negotiate with the victorious house. That solves the issue of mentat experiments, which is all we went to war to do. At most, we should try to help the remaining Licori houses negotiate a new government among themselves. What we should absolutely not do is start propping up one house or attacking another for political convenience, because that divides the Federation internally even more than this war is doing already, and gives the Cardassians and Romulans all the propaganda they'll ever need.
 
Exposing the Romulan involvement might be on the table.

Beyond that is probably above our paygrade.
 
As I already pointed out, SWB's account of how things went was patently false. At no point did we encourage or support the Tartresis to overthrow the government. We tried to establish contacts with them so we could negotiate peace easier, but that's very different from trying to put them in power.

I agree our actions have inadvertently led to the Morshadd regime collapsing, but that doesn't mean we have to support a regime change. What we should be doing and what I expect the Council to ask us to do is to stay out of the succession crisis and negotiate with the victorious house. That solves the issue of mentat experiments, which is all we went to war to do. At most, we should try to help the remaining Licori houses negotiate a new government among themselves. What we should absolutely not do is start propping up one house or attacking another for political convenience, because that divides the Federation internally even more than this war is doing already, and gives the Cardassians and Romulans all the propaganda they'll ever need.

I could see us doing a quid-pro-quo thing where we support any house who helps us round up rogue mentats and superweapons, since that would be in the direct interest of our war goals. But that's it.
 
I think our main in is the negotiations over organising our marshall plan. High level people from each relevant faction will have to be there to make sure they get their share.

And while that goes on pur peeps just kinda go around going "Well. No one wants a civil war. Us especially, let's figure what we can do to make for a more peaceful future"

I expect someone like the Bene to show interest because they sure as shit don't want to be Romulan puppets. They Want to be the big fish in a small pond sure, but they'd probably not want a hook stuck into a fin.

The Tartesis can probably accept some sort of honourable partition of power that respected traditional norms. Hence my idea of a Tartesis consort.

We can just pull the Romulans into a corner and go "We won't make a move if you won't. A neutral buffer stat is in both our best interests. Especially now" and then sell them on a fairly safe transition of power. Sure there will be some Romulans who want to make a go of it but most will probably accept a draw where neither of us has the advantage. Especially with their current case of "FUCK KLINGONS"
 
I think what the Romulans want us to do is back the Tartresis in an extended civil war with the Bene. Together with our commitments in Gabriel, this would pretty much tie us down, and prevent us from intervening in their war with the Klingons.
If the Bene manage to pull out a win against our favored candidates, and establish a Romulan client state then that is pure bonus for them. But I think they honestly couldn't care less if the Bene manage to come out on top or not. They just want us distracted whilst they smash the KDFs face in.
 
I think what the Romulans want us to do is back the Tartresis in an extended civil war with the Bene. Together with our commitments in Gabriel, this would pretty much tie us down, and prevent us from intervening in their war with the Klingons.
If the Bene manage to pull out a win against our favored candidates, and establish a Romulan client state then that is pure bonus for them. But I think they honestly couldn't care less if the Bene manage to come out on top or not. They just want us distracted whilst they smash the KDFs face in.

On the other hand, that does jeopardize the efforts they've made normalizing relations with us lately. If I had to guess, I'd say this is an op run by a Tal Shiar fragment with a side goal of worsening Federation-Romulan relations because they are opposed to recent efforts made by the Continuing Committee. It wouldn't be Romulans without dysfunctional backstabbing politics, after all.
 
I wonder if we should invite the Romulans to send an official ambassidor, as this is their neighbor. Get them offically involved enough that they are invested in making the outcome look good.
 
Yes, when we pulled our diplomatic staff out on the war starting, we gave the Romulan Embassy the keys to the Federation Embassy.
When we returned, it was with an Intel team to try to find all the bugs ....

I don't know if it was a good move or not.

What. You don't think that everyone involved knew that they would bug us and we would find them?

Just the game playing out. A sign of respect really.
 
I think we should also consider rather than not being willing to push the Romulans, that we have the upper hand here with the beginning of the Klingon-Romulan war. The Romulans can't spare the resources to push their agenda too hard here, while we have a full State of Emergency worth of resources. It seems to me they want to present the Bene ascension and Romulan alignment as a fait accompli, but all that goes badly if they either get caught. They likely aren't capable of more direct intervention at the current cost of their operations.

Even just revealing things to the Tartesis will hurt the Romulan agenda, because it means the Tartesis will be unlikely to accept a Bene successor. That turns the ascension crisis into a prolonged insurgency, and the Bene are not equipped to deal with that.
 
What. You don't think that everyone involved knew that they would bug us and we would find them?

Just the game playing out. A sign of respect really.
Yep.

The Romulans know they're better at planting bugs than we are at searching for bugs, but they also know we're better at detecting signals and power sources than they are at hiding them.
I think we should also consider rather than not being willing to push the Romulans, that we have the upper hand here with the beginning of the Klingon-Romulan war. The Romulans can't spare the resources to push their agenda too hard here, while we have a full State of Emergency worth of resources. It seems to me they want to present the Bene ascension and Romulan alignment as a fait accompli, but all that goes badly if they either get caught. They likely aren't capable of more direct intervention at the current cost of their operations.

Even just revealing things to the Tartesis will hurt the Romulan agenda, because it means the Tartesis will be unlikely to accept a Bene successor. That turns the ascension crisis into a prolonged insurgency, and the Bene are not equipped to deal with that.
Yeah, just the reveal and a question to Romulus asking if this was actually sanctioned should be step one.
 
Hell, "the Bene are Romulan puppets, here's proof" would do immeasurable damage to their cause and likely cause minor house defections. No one wants a puppet Emperor. More so if the Tartesis are also corroborating our information.

e: and yes, the Bene aren't actually Romulan puppets, but that's immaterial to the damage this information can cause them
 
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As I already pointed out, SWB's account of how things went was patently false.

Except it's not. Even as far back as the buildup to the war we were discussing regime change as a war goal since the Emperor never had the power to do what we asked of him and as such we would have to demolish the Arcadian Empire's internal politics and rebuild them, and much the of the information we've been given (for example the politics of the various houses) has been based on who would be a more tractable ruler of the Arcadian Empire.

You may not have thought we were talking about regime change but everyone was talking about regime change when we had the Tartesis and Bene laid out for us, both ingame and out. If you thought otherwise you were deluding yourself.
 
Except it's not. Even as far back as the buildup to the war we were discussing regime change as a war goal since the Emperor never had the power to do what we asked of him and as such we would have to demolish the Arcadian Empire's internal politics and rebuild them, and much the of the information we've been given (for example the politics of the various houses) has been based on who would be a more tractable ruler of the Arcadian Empire.

You may not have thought we were talking about regime change but everyone was talking about regime change when we had the Tartesis and Bene laid out for us, both ingame and out. If you thought otherwise you were deluding yourself.

We may have been discussing it in the thread, but it was never a war goal of the Federation. Nowhere did the President or Sousa suggest we'd have to rebuild Licori society. I don't know what thread you were reading, but I never saw or agreed to any consensus on installing a friendly government. And if that was the plan, then I'm sure as hell not voting for continuing it.
 
We may have been discussing it in the thread, but it was never a war goal of the Federation. Nowhere did the President or Sousa suggest we'd have to rebuild Licori society. I don't know what thread you were reading, but I never saw or agreed to any consensus on installing a friendly government. And if that was the plan, then I'm sure as hell not voting for continuing it.

Well, I guess we'll see if we can muster the votes to outvote you then.
 
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