aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
See the front page:
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The big argument is simply that the Sovereign-class has less physical volume and mass. While the design reflects roughly twenty years of technological innovation, the tonnage gap almost has to make a difference in terms of what can fit on the ship. And since we know the Sovereigns have at least as heavy a combat suite as the Galaxies, whatever was taken out to save space would either involve reducing shipboard luxuries, reducing science capability, or both.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
I can totally see reducing luxuries; while they have holodecks, it doesn't seem they have as many.
And you don't have the same things like full-on classrooms and stuff that make it a "city in space".
But I think we could probably shoot for having at least the same Science as a Galaxy, along with more combat, defense, etc., between higher-efficiency systems, and cutting down quite a bit on crewing/passenger space (because it needs less crew to run in the first place).
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But like... stubby little nacelles, a giant round saucer, a comparatively anemic secondary... the Sovvie looks like she jets through space like a majestic sea creature in the ocean, the Galaxy looks like it's ponderously plodding along and telling subspace to go shove itself.
Renaissance and Ambassador might have the same general aesthetic, but they look much more balanced and not top-heavy.
A slim mako shark and a giant blue whale are both majestic, but in their own ways.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Or, perhaps a sperm whale? They're capable of some extraordinary feats.
(Also they have a really big fat head section!)
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Well, if you compare the front page stats, the Sovereign looks like trying to rebuild a Galaxy after some major shifts in ship design. Massive shifts to the SR to BR ratio, a bump in combat and a drop in crew, all at the same time.
I guess Scotty must have worked on it post transporter stasis.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
There is actually a novel that explicitly has Scotty as one of the head designers on that class, and the lead ship of the class is crewed by the folks who crewed the Bozeman.
I wonder if accelerating the Betazed starbase and building an outpost around Onos IV (a world that has its own Council member) will buy us any war support with the Betazoids. Shows we're committed to defending them, right?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You'd think so, but as you noted a while ago, if they really believed they needed defending, their war support would have been higher in the first place. Hopefully we'll get at least a little benefit from the obvious commitment of Federation resources to a project that significant elements in the Betazed government valued highly even before the war.
I'm still hoping that the Gaeni wind up incorporated into the Licori Border Zone or whatever sector designation succeeds it, rather than cramming yet another major homeworld into Sol Sector.
EDIT:
I mean, the distance from Sol to Betazed or Gaen isn't all that much less than the distance from Tellar to Amarkia or Ferasa. But nobody talked about folding the Amarki or Caitians into Tellar Sector as far as I can remember.
EDIT MK II:
That 164/500 relationship with the Yrillians- that is as of when? What should it be looking like by 2315Q2, what do we expect?
I'm still hoping that the Gaeni wind up incorporated into the Licori Border Zone or whatever sector designation succeeds it, rather than cramming yet another major homeworld into Sol Sector.
EDIT:
I mean, the distance from Sol to Betazed or Gaen isn't all that much less than the distance from Tellar to Amarkia or Ferasa. But nobody talked about folding the Amarki or Caitians into Tellar Sector as far as I can remember.
EDIT MK II:
That 164/500 relationship with the Yrillians- that is as of when? What should it be looking like by 2315Q2, what do we expect?
Last edited:
I believe there was also a correction and am unsure if this includes it. Regardless, we get a roll every quarter so they should be just on the edge below 300 when Snakepit rolls around. Another year of push might do it.
Holena:
"Never... skip...leg day.
bro
"The better question is what doesn't the Enterprise-F have. By the standards of the year 2314 it's carrying phaser arrays more powerful than those mounted on your starbases, has a smaller, detachable escort with Defiant-style phaser cannons, is armed with Quantum, Photon, and Tricobalt torpedos, it has tractor beams powerful enough to knock a Scimitar -- uhhh, the Basilica of Lakept [or w/e] around, and clocking at at just over a kilometer in length no doubt has all the room for labs, sensors, and all other science accouterments you'd possibly need. Oh, and it has transwarp drive.
Also it has a pretty sweet bridge IMO.
I dunno what stats you'd even give it in game. Assuming similar tech progression between TNG and 2409 as between roughly 'now' and TNG, you'd probably look at something like...
C22 S22 H22 L22 P15 D20
Given it has three variants you could shift it around a bit too:
Science: C20 S24 H20 L24 P15 D20
Engineering: C20 S20 H24 L22 P17 D20
Tactical: C25 S20 H20 L23 P15 D20
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
And it's stupid shit like this that's why STO should never be taken into account for anything related to Star Trek.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
What about variants so deeply offends you considering that only yhe gamified mechanics of this quest really prevent the kind of real-world flights/blocks stuff from turning up and also when you build ships you inevitably tinker with them for various purposes after the first half-dozen?
...because that is a fairly reasonable stat progression for what's probably a five-megaton ship at the point STO takes place.
...because that is a fairly reasonable stat progression for what's probably a five-megaton ship at the point STO takes place.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Um, why?
Galaxy's running on something like 2345 tech given design plus prototyping. Odyssey's running on something in the 2395 range. 50 years of RnD counts for a lot.
Also, Hobus. STO explanation is flatly superior to the primary canon one, most notably in that it actually explains anything.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Enterprise:
[eyes video footage of Va'kel Shon]
"Okay, but can you convince this guy to stop posing so much? Seriously. He seems nice, but he needs a chill pill."
- Location
- Infraspace
I, too am a big fan of the Sovereign; it's one of my favourite canon designs. In terms of β-canon, though, I love the Vesta class (Mark Rademaker's original, not the variants that are only STO). Seeing it is what got me into modelling starships in the first place!
Rademaker's other designs are also pretty good, but they're not even partially canonical.
Rademaker's other designs are also pretty good, but they're not even partially canonical.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
What? It makes perfect sense that a 2400-vintage explorer is going to have stats roughly twice those of a 2350-vintage explorer, which will in turn have stats roughly twice those of a 2300-vintage explorer.
While we're at it, the current tentative stats for an as-built Constitution without the refit are mostly 3's, indicating that a 2250-vintage explorer has roughly half the stats of a 2300-vintage one.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Honestly, the root problem there is just the ability to kit out your ship with literally whatever weapon and equipment you want, e.g. taking a Starfleet explorer and loading it down with batteries of polaron cannons or shield generators repurposed from ancient precursor derelicts or whatever. If we accept the core premise that ships really are that massively customizable, the level of further customization represented by engineering/tactical/science variants of the same basic hull is trivial by comparison.
I'm actually assuming modules in that case, tbh. As in, the Enterprise-F could be swapping out stats.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
THE FINAL VICTORY OF ADMIRAL ANNE USHA!!!!!
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
@OneirosTheWriter, shouldn't there be two more cargo ships here?
I unfortunately can't find a quote of the old version of the GBZ status page, but I'm like 99% sure it originally had 4 cargo ships and 2 freighters, even after the Apiata arrived with their 6 Bumblebees, as I noted here:
Then we had a vote for adding 2 extra freighters AND 2 extra cargo ships:
So we should have a total of 6 cargo ships and 4 freighters.
The only wrinkle here is that Starfleet obviously does not have cargo ships to spare and was forced to federalize/hire member fleet auxiliaries here (hence that large 15pp cost). So it's conceivable that of the 3 cargo ships the Amarki brought, two of them are part of the above "2 extra cargo ships". This is dubious because the Amarki, like the Apiata, are explicitly Green Lighted as operating their own forces not under Starfleet command, and they need those 3 cargo ships for supply of their fleet and outposts and eventually colonies.
So yeah, we should be seeing another two cargo ships here, probably federalized Tellarite/Human/Andorian cargo ships given that their logistics were (and still are) not under strain.
edit: Or alternately, two Starfleet cargo ships are transferred into the GBZ, and member fleet cargo ships are federalized to take up those pre-transfer duties.
Take note: This strongly indicates that the 2x1mt repair yard we're preparing in the LBZ is going to take 1 year for an engineering team AND that the specific aux ship counts of the engineering teams do matter.
Engineering ships each have 2S 2B 3SpcE, that "E" suffix indicating its actually 3*4Spc for engineering tasks like this repair yard. 2 engineering ships adds up to the 24SpcE/month we see here. 288/24 => exactly 12 months worth of engineering effort.
The resources required and their supply rate also fit within 12 months:
Small: 100/(28/2) ~= 7.1 months
Bulk: 250/(44/4) ~= 11.4 months
There's also no indication here on repair yard components needing to be produced, so it could either be abstracted into this or were already pre-constructed and waiting as spares (like we have components for 3 outposts and 1 starbase in reserve already).
So what does this all mean?
1) 2 engineering ships in an engineering team are a must to achieve standard building speed - sorry Betazoid engineering team
2) That LBZ 2x1mt repair yard may take up to a year to build after the components for it are built, depending on whether the construction of those components is abstracted in the GBZ 2x1mt repair yard construction above
3) We may need to get a second engineering team to speed up construction of the repair yard like we did the Betazed starbase if we want it done sooner
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
@OneriosTheWriter , can we get confirmation on some of this? In particular, the statement that an engineering team with only one engineering ship builds stuff at reduced rates?
[sobs]
Enterprise:
[sobs]