Well if the Indorians are up for it, I'm voting to allow them their piece of the pie.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- Sci-Fi
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Well if the Indorians are up for it, I'm voting to allow them their piece of the pie.
- Location
- Patriarchova
We don't need to send ships. Just our logistical support going to the enemy should be deterrent enough.
I'm not sure why the rest of your post is addressed at me, because were in agreement aside from that.
She's been giving us captain's logs for a full year now...
I know I owe some omakes for her, by the by. I'm thinking of trying to do a "first year round-up" with some of her hilarious misadventures.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
As noted, it's been 2314 for a few hundred pages. I get one Captain's Log post featuring her per 50-100 pages of other material, plus she was already in Captain's Log posts as captain of Defiant before we gave her an explorer.
- Location
- Infraspace
Emergent AI is almost by definition accidental, though. Plus, it's probably easy to argue that there is a connection between souls and AI, and you can approach it from the Spiritual or Materialist perspective, to borrow Stellaris terminology.Well, suffice to say that "ships have souls" gives me the same warm fuzzies that I get from the "recurring AI" idea, with fewer "but wait the Federation wouldn't actually do that" moments because, well, ships having souls isn't something the Federation makes happen on purpose.
Plus, I just LIKE sprinkling around a little mysticism here and there, which is why I had so much fun writing Worf's chapter of Dreams that I couldn't bring myself to stop for hours. It's nearly finished, now, athough I'm having second thoughts about posting it.
Edit: I hope I'm not coming across as dismissive of your viewpoint. I just think this is an interesting topic to debate.Phillipa Louvois said:
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- Location
- Patriarchova
Except that the AI "explanation" not only fails to explain the events of the Dreams series, but is also actively hostile to its themes, genre, and clear intent.
Dreams Enterprise doesn't need a canon explanation or to be canon at all. Much like the relation of actual dreams to your reality, really.
Although Dreams is a good way of examining how genre bending Trek truly is. If you wanted an explanation of what the Dreams Enterprise entity actually is, take your pick:
Although Dreams is a good way of examining how genre bending Trek truly is. If you wanted an explanation of what the Dreams Enterprise entity actually is, take your pick:
- An actual Fucking Ghost [TOS] or 'Psionic Emgram' [VOY/ENT] that's adopted the identity of 'Enterprise' after having become attached to it.
- The Avatar of a gestalt psionic consciousness from a Realm Adjacent To Ours [seems TOS], given shape by the collective thoughts of the crew. You could even have an episode where you enter a 'psionic nebula' and the ship personification manifests, a la that one episode of Dr. Who.
- Actual hallucinations/dreams.
- A higher-evolved Energy Being taking the form of the ship like you or I might act the role of a play.
- Emergent AI
- Jesus Christ
- Satan
- Robot Satan
- Fake Jesus Christ
- Janeway after going at Warp -1 in the future.
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- Location
- Infraspace
Might have to read through the earlier ones a little to see what it might fail to explain. It's been a while since they started!
Regarding themes, etc. could you clarify this? Spotting and interpreting this kind of thing has always been difficult for me, I'm afraid, so it's basically certain that I'll have missed much of it.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Right, because Warp 10 has her turn into her spirit animal, a salamander, so she can do unspeakable things to Tom Paris.
Exactly! If Warp 10 causes her to 'devolve' into an imperfect form, than going to the opposite end -- the negatives -- should logically turn her into an energy being that can inhabit a more perfect form -- the form of a multimegaton exploratory vessel with an antimatter furnace as its heart, shiny and chrome.
I'm glad you could follow the logic here. I'm getting a call from 1997, they want us in the Voyager writing room yesterday.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Oh god, why?!
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Today's Omake: How Iron Wolf and Godwinson saved Voyager.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
NOTE: All answers below are predicated on the assumption that Dreams!Enterprise is real. This is not, strictly speaking, canon within Dreams. However, it is nearly impossible to do literary analysis of a story if one does not stipulate, at least for the sake of being able to phrase one's sentences neatly, that the main character actually exists.
But she wouldn't notice anything different, because she already existed. She even had a body already- the ship.
"All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.' You could feel the wind at your back in those days. The sounds of the sea beneath you, and even if you take away the wind and the water it's still the same. The ship is yours. You can feel her. And the stars are still there, Bones."
There's the theme that this spiritual level is where people- souls- truly connect when they need each other the most. Think about the times where Nash gets her visitations in Dreams. Once, the trigger for all the others, is the product of mind-bending psychic space influences that knock the entire crew unconscious and cause them to have unusually vivid and similar dreams. The second time is the day before the Battle of Kadesh- one of the scariest moments of Nash's life. The third time is a few days after the time-looped Battle of 33 Fujit- arguably the most traumatic moment of Nash's life. And the fourth and final visitation is on Nash's last night aboard the ship, when after ten years of feeling happy and relevant and of helping to save the galaxy more than once and individual worlds more times than I can count... Nash is leaving the Enterprise. Maybe forever.
And Samhaya? She gets her visitation when she's under a level of stress that would drive a lesser woman (or cat) to a nervous breakdown. She's got a budding Seyek civil war in front of her, Cardassians twitching menacingly to her sides, and the Licori threatening to blow up the galaxy behind her. She's near the end of her rope, for all that she keeps herself under iron control. And she's spent the past four years comparing herself to Nash- and not liking what she sees, even though she's been a very fine captain by any standard.
For that matter, Enterprise's cameo appearance in Fairy Tales is cut from the same cloth; Lt. Bessle has felt, within the span of a week or so:
1) Fear for her homeworld,
2) Utter, spiritually rotten betrayal by a woman she looked up to
3) A lack of support and sympathy from all her friends, at a time when they had specifically come together to offer her support.
And now that things have finally turned around, she's working her fingers to the bone trying to chart a faster course for the ship.
She needs something more than material reassurance can provide to the mind. And that's when she reaches out to the soul of the ship, to the symbol of what Enterprise means to her.
[twitches]
[eyes glow phaser-bank red for a moment]
"Do NOT compare or tie me to that woman. Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to be late for Voyager's group therapy session."
Well, my own answer (predicated on the notion that ships have souls) is that if an emergent AI wakes up on the Enterprise, it would indeed have a soul: namely, Enterprise.
But she wouldn't notice anything different, because she already existed. She even had a body already- the ship.
Well, there's the theme that there exists a spiritual level on which crews and captains connect to their ships, which transcends the material and exists orthogonal to the material. Jim Kirk said it best:
"All I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.' You could feel the wind at your back in those days. The sounds of the sea beneath you, and even if you take away the wind and the water it's still the same. The ship is yours. You can feel her. And the stars are still there, Bones."
There's the theme that this spiritual level is where people- souls- truly connect when they need each other the most. Think about the times where Nash gets her visitations in Dreams. Once, the trigger for all the others, is the product of mind-bending psychic space influences that knock the entire crew unconscious and cause them to have unusually vivid and similar dreams. The second time is the day before the Battle of Kadesh- one of the scariest moments of Nash's life. The third time is a few days after the time-looped Battle of 33 Fujit- arguably the most traumatic moment of Nash's life. And the fourth and final visitation is on Nash's last night aboard the ship, when after ten years of feeling happy and relevant and of helping to save the galaxy more than once and individual worlds more times than I can count... Nash is leaving the Enterprise. Maybe forever.
And Samhaya? She gets her visitation when she's under a level of stress that would drive a lesser woman (or cat) to a nervous breakdown. She's got a budding Seyek civil war in front of her, Cardassians twitching menacingly to her sides, and the Licori threatening to blow up the galaxy behind her. She's near the end of her rope, for all that she keeps herself under iron control. And she's spent the past four years comparing herself to Nash- and not liking what she sees, even though she's been a very fine captain by any standard.
For that matter, Enterprise's cameo appearance in Fairy Tales is cut from the same cloth; Lt. Bessle has felt, within the span of a week or so:
1) Fear for her homeworld,
2) Utter, spiritually rotten betrayal by a woman she looked up to
3) A lack of support and sympathy from all her friends, at a time when they had specifically come together to offer her support.
And now that things have finally turned around, she's working her fingers to the bone trying to chart a faster course for the ship.
She needs something more than material reassurance can provide to the mind. And that's when she reaches out to the soul of the ship, to the symbol of what Enterprise means to her.
Enterprise:
[twitches]
[eyes glow phaser-bank red for a moment]
"Do NOT compare or tie me to that woman. Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to be late for Voyager's group therapy session."
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KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Or not those.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Enterprise:
[snorts]
"I'm not THAT old! And I don't even mess around with people's fates in the afterlife. Well, okay. There was this one time. Only once. And that wasn't my fault! I'm not used to dying with a bunch of Klingons aboard! We were all in the same boat! LITERALLY!"
[snorts]
"I'm not THAT old! And I don't even mess around with people's fates in the afterlife. Well, okay. There was this one time. Only once. And that wasn't my fault! I'm not used to dying with a bunch of Klingons aboard! We were all in the same boat! LITERALLY!"
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What do you think about two of your later classes that show two different viewpoints on the 'Explorer Concept': The Galaxy VS The Sovereign? This sounds wierd, I know, but I figured I'd ask that from the original explorer of this 'time'.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
A Galaxy would likely use it's superior science to out science the Sovereign. This would require getting the drop on it though as the Sovereign is the more combat oriented vessel.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Enterprise:
[looks at blueprint on left]
[looks at blueprint on right]
[looks back and forth]
"I... hmm... hm. Okay, it depends. How much asskicking do you guys need me to do? It seems like you can never make up your minds how important that is. I like the idea you've got here-" [points at Sovereign-class]- "but it feels like you skipped leg day or something."
[looks at blueprint on left]
[looks at blueprint on right]
[looks back and forth]
"I... hmm... hm. Okay, it depends. How much asskicking do you guys need me to do? It seems like you can never make up your minds how important that is. I like the idea you've got here-" [points at Sovereign-class]- "but it feels like you skipped leg day or something."
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's why I kinda want both of them for this universe(or an Amalgamation to replace the Galaxy if possible)...the Galaxy could be our 5YM and general exploration craft, with the Soveriegn being a more Combat Oriented Garrison Capital Ship...with maybee one or two on FYM duty to not give Stesk ammo.
what do you mean by that? I honestly love both classes.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Well, when you're going up against a champion arm-wrestler in an arm-wrestling contest....
Honestly, personally, the only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the side-struts on the neck and that weird gappy-ness there.Soooo... how d'ya feel about this?
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Eh. I mean, the Galaxy is the strictly superior peacetime ship to the Sovvie's superior warship, but on the basis of their looks...
Sovvies look like sleek, elegant ships with clear, long design lines... the Galaxy looks like a deformed Amby with weight problems.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Enterprise:
"Well, I hate to say it, but I cared a lot more about streamlining when I was a hypersonic glider. Buuuut... it's a pretty look, the question is what it's got going on under all that makeup. Do tell." [grins]
It's a riff on how Starfleet went from 'big peaceable explorer' to 'crap we need a battleship' within twenty years. The 'skip leg day' is mostly a reference to a lack of awareness of the Sovereign's full capabilities, which is the fault of the relative dearth of screen time the class gets compared to the Galaxy and Constitution-classes due to never actually starring in a TV series.
Enterprise:
[Makes upset noises]
"Big. Is. Beautiful. Also, she looks like the big kinda klutzy niece of cute little Rennie d'aww isn't she ADORABLE!"
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
I like both the Galaxy and the Sovereign. But do we have hard evidence there's less science capability in a Sovereign than a Galaxy, or is this just implicit bias because the Sovereign is only seen in movies that have big space fights? Whereas the Galaxy gets 7 TV show seasons to tell how science-y it is...
EDIT: I mean, we see, on-screen, an Astrometrics lab, and while it might not be as big as the Enterprise-D's lab, it looks at least equivalent to that of an Intrepid, which seems like a pretty science-oriented vessel...
EDIT: I mean, we see, on-screen, an Astrometrics lab, and while it might not be as big as the Enterprise-D's lab, it looks at least equivalent to that of an Intrepid, which seems like a pretty science-oriented vessel...
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