To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Briefvoice · Apr 10, 2017

[X] Federation Industrial Might and Doctrine
-[X] North America Productivity Commission - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Earth, gain Heavy Industry asset)
-[X] Shorc Xurth Resource Combine - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Tellar, gain Heavy Industry asset)
-[X] Andorian Imperial Star Engineers - Engineering Team (10 Cost from Andor, gain Engineering Team with 2 Engineering Ships, 2 Cargo Ships, 1 Freighter)
-[X] Retired Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson - Doctrine Specialist (5pt Cost to Starfleet, gain Doctrine Specialist)
-[X] Retired Vice Admiral Lachlan Ablett - Doctrine Specialist (5pt Cost to Starfleet, gain Doctrine Specialist)

Okay, new plan. In this one we wait another ~~two weeks~~ four weeks for our next External Diplomacy team. Rationale:
1. We can see that new non-generic teams are gradually becoming available. It may be considerably cheaper to wait another turn rather than force together a new Generic External Diplomacy team right now. I mean, didn't we just do what everyone was saying was the vital task that we desperately needed another External team for? Urgency has abated.
2. This way we can get an engineering team and an industry team to back it up!

Iron Wolf · Apr 10, 2017

I find buying doctrine teams a little weird when we don't even have a firm grasp of what they're going to do. On the other hand I guess that's an argument for buying them early in case we need them?

Also I'm tempted to get the Asian Productivity Commission versus the NA one but I guess it doesn't matter. More a flavor thing for if our starship and shipyard parts are being managed from Detroit or Chennai, I guess

Simon_Jester · Apr 10, 2017

Out of respect for @OneirosTheWriter, and in the spirit of HAPPY BIRFDAY!!!...

Ask Commodore Leslie and Ask Enterprise are being extended for roughly another 24-36 hours, so expect them to run until roughly 36-48 hours from now.

Briefvoice said:
Unfortunately a second engineering team costs 10 points, while the doctrine team costs 5 points. So it's not an even trade.

My (B) proposal is, basically, to spend 10 points on a non-Starfleet engineering team, get Eriksson, and get an external diplomacy team.

My default proposal is to spend 5 points on Starfleet engineers, get Eriksson AND a heavy industry team, and get an external diplomacy team.

What we really need external diplomats for, now, is to talk to the Ked Paddah. If at all possible we need to have military liaisons in place with them before the war starts, too, which imparts considerable urgency. This is theoretically a thing Kahurangi could do, but I think she'd be better used on Earth doing internal diplomacy.

Iron Wolf said:
I find buying doctrine teams a little weird when we don't even have a firm grasp of what they're going to do. On the other hand I guess that's an argument for buying them early in case we need them?

We definitely will want a doctrine team working on "how to stop pesky little ships with trilithium bombs from getting too close to our stars." What we want a hypothetical second doctrine team doing is more of an uncertainty, so I'd rather NOT call up Ablett right away.

Plus, quite frankly, Ablett's been out of circulation for a long time and there's not a lot of evidence he was particularly amazing at his job even when he had it...

lbmaian · Apr 10, 2017

lbmaian said:
You mean the pool of member fleet vessels originally allocated to the LBZ (the 8 cargo ships and 3 freighters), right? I hope you don't mean our own over-taxed Starfleet logistics

Hmm, that may not be a bad option that I didn't consider before. Let me run the numbers...

It fits!

We started with 7 explorers, 8 cruisers, 20 frigates, 11 auxiliaries, and 1 outpost (Clover). Tellar and other federalized ships, excluding the UESPA engineering team's own auxiliaries (treating it as a self-contained unit) will ultimately contribute 1 explorer, 2 cruisers, 5 frigates, and 1 2 auxiliaries.

Demand:
7+1 explorers @ (2S per 1) = 8*2S
8+2 cruisers @ (1S per 1) = 10*1S
20+5 frigates @ (1S per 2) = 25*0.5S
11+2 auxiliaries @ (1S per 4) = 13*0.25S
1 outpost @ (2S 2B per 1) = 2S 2B
Totals (rounding up): 44S 2B

Supply:
8+1 cargo ships @ (8S 2B per 1) = 9*8S 9*2B
3 freighters @ (4S 10B per 1) = 3*4S 3*10B
Totals: 84S 48B

Supply after subtracting 2 cargo ships and 2 freighters for Starfleet Engineering Command option:
7 cargo ships @ (8S 2B per 1) = 7*8S 7*2B
1 freighters @ (4S 10B per 1) = 1*4S 1*10B
Totals: 60S 24B

So that would leave us with 16S and 22B leftover.

edit: forgot the Vulcan research cruiser - depending on how the rounding works, demand can still be 44S or now is 45S.

Briefvoice · Apr 10, 2017

OneirosTheWriter said:
Tailward Theatre, Vice Admiral Viraan zh'Dohlen
Sol Sector
Rigel Sector
Vulcan Sector
Andor Sector
Klingon Border Zone
Romulan Border Zone
Licori Border Zone

-Task Force 1, Commodore Michel Thuir
USS Sarek, Excelsior-class, NCC-2004 - Captain Straak
USS Excelsior, Excelsior-class, NCC-2000 - Captain Yamada Ichigo
USS Lexington, Constitution-B-class, NCC-1741 - Captain Winslow
USS Blizzard, Centaur-A-class, NCC-2108 - Captain Senok
USS Lightning, Centaur-A-class, NCC- 2105 - Captain Khrerg bak Arguk
UES Calgary, Miranda-A-class, NCC-1903 - Captain Tan Ming
USS Torbriel, Oberth-class, NCC-1511 - Captain Diego Zaardmani

-Task Force 2, Commodore Nash ka'Sharren
USS Enterprise, Excelsior-class, NCC-1701-B - Captain Samhaya Mrr'shan
UES Liberty, Excelsior-class, NCC-2017 - Captain Olesya Sokolov
USS Hood, Constitution-B-class, NCC-1742 - Captain Angela Curtis
USS Winterwind, Centaur-A-class, NCC-2104 - Captain Abigail Taggart
UES Shanghai, Miranda-A-class, NCC-1904 - Captain Gao Yang
UES Yorkshire, Centaur-A-class, NCC-2109 - Captain Angus Connelly
USS Hawking, Oberth-class, NCC-1509 - Captain Bruce Ponting

-Task Force 3, Rear Admiral T'Lorel
USS Renaissance, Renaissance-class, NCC-2601 - Captain Larai Leaniss
--Task Group 3.1, Commodore Brufraogem Wev
RDS Yagad-Tich, Megatortoise-class, NCC-2901 - Captain Irdask
RDS Hadabat, Turtleship-class, NCC-2903 - Captain Rumo
RDS Monsad, Turtleship-class, NCC-2904 - Captain Caagid
BDS Radlawxa, Patrol Cruiser-class, NCC-2501 - Captain Viamelo Gru
RDS Oda-Gach-3, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, NCC-3005
USS Svai, Miranda-class, NCC-1658 - Captain T'Atring
--Task Group 3.2, Commodore Erzath zh'Darlyth
USS Endurance, Excelsior-class, NCC-2007 - Captain Pavel Chekov

RDS Pagatat, Turtleship-class, NCC-2907 - Captain Zukeik
UES Jupiter, Constellation-class, NCC-1813 - Captain Roberta Sherman
USS Calypso, Miranda-class, NCC-1632 - Captain Tomiq zh'Pohren
USS Thunderhead, Miranda-class, NCC-1656 - Captain Amos Bao
USS Inspire, Oberth-class, NCC-1510 - Captain Amelia Currie

-Task Force 4, Commodore Iorinn Grann
USS Thirishar, Excelsior-class, NCC-2011 - Captain Norkair ch'Gharist
USS Gale, Centaur-A-class, NCC-2106 - Captain Gorth th'Hashok
BDS Harmony, Centaur-A-class, NCC-2120 - Captain Eneram Idrai
BDS Astute, Patroller-class, NCC-2507
BDS Assist, Patroller-class, NCC-2508
RDS Oda-Gach-4, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, NCC-3006
RDS Oda-Gach-5, Oda-Gach-class Cutter, NCC-3007
USS T'Mir, Oberth-class, NCC-1507

-Auxiliary Force
3 Tellarite Cargo Ships
1 Tellarite Freighter
2 Andorian Cargo Ships
1 Andorian Freighter
1 Vulcan Cargo Ship
2 Human Cargo Ships
1 Human Freighter
1 Betazoid Cargo Ship

-Research Attachment
1 Vulcan Civilian Research Cruiser

-UESPA Deep Space Engineering
2 UESPA Engineering Ships
3 UESPA Cargo Ships
1 UESPA Freighter

Is there a reason the new Tellarite ships and others we requisitioned haven't yet been added to the order of battle?

Illuminated Technocracy of Gaen

External Diplomacy Teams
Technocracy Interstellar Ministry - Lobby for Federation entry to war

Even though it makes perfect sense, it's hilarious to imagine the Gaeni lobbyists running around Paris trying desperately to sell the Federation on the war.

I wonder if the Gaeni can increase our war support!

Doctrine Teams
Kedaia Naar Institute - Developing Anti-Licori techniques (will gain +1% at 2315.Q1.M3)

Interesting for a glimpse of the sort of things that a doctrine team can do.

Briefvoice · Apr 10, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
What we really need external diplomats for, now, is to talk to the Ked Paddah. If at all possible we need to have military liaisons in place with them before the war starts, too, which imparts considerable urgency. This is theoretically a thing Kahurangi could do, but I think she'd be better used on Earth doing internal diplomacy.

But is it urgent enough to pay a surcharge for by recruiting a generic team rather than waiting for a non-generic one to make itself available for recruitment?

I don't deny that getting the Ked Paddah on-side is important eventually, but it's not "exit strategy" important. It seems likely they may approach us once the Federation actually declares war. Basic coordination shouldn't be too tough to set up. It's not like we're going to ask them to integrate their forces with ours. I would really rather wait another turn or two and get an engineering and heavy industry teams working faster in the meantime.

Random Member · Apr 10, 2017

OneirosTheWriter said:
Also, it's my birthday now salt shakers will be punished!

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Apr 10, 2017

If it fits in our logistics, then let's do it. 15 point External Diplo, 5 point Engineers, 5 of Doctrine, 5 of HI.

Simon_Jester · Apr 10, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Even though it makes perfect sense, it's hilarious to imagine the Gaeni lobbyists running around Paris trying desperately to sell the Federation on the war.

I wonder if the Gaeni can increase our war support!

I imagine this consisting mainly of desperate, wild-eyed Gaeni scientists staggering around Paris going "You've got to help me! He's a lunatic!"

lbmaian said:
Supply after subtracting 2 cargo ships and 2 freighters for Starfleet Engineering Command option:
7 cargo ships @ (8S 2B per 1) = 7*8S 7*2B
1 freighers @ (4S 10B per 1) = 1*4S 1*10B
Totals: 60S 24B

So that would leave us with 16S and 22B leftover.

Hm... that would cut our margin of error for "S" pretty close... IF we hadn't just federalized a Tellarite freighter!

And they called me stupid! Well I'm STUPID LIKE A FOX!

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Apr 10, 2017

Briefvoice said:
wait another two weeks

It's actually four weeks. We buy every 4 weeks, we assign every 4 weeks, alternating fortnights. By that time the ultimatum will have expired and we will be officially at war.
e: Technically, 6 weeks before we can assign it.

I'd like confirmation from @OneirosTheWriter that we can draw from our existing logistics for our engineering team, but if we can I'm for doing it.

lbmaian · Apr 10, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
Hm... that would cut our margin of error for "S" pretty close... IF we hadn't just federalized a Tellarite freighter!

Well first it's a cargo ship. And second, I didn't even consider the option of using our existing pool of logistics for this Starfleet Engineering Command option. I was considering it the worst option and writing it off, since if we had to purchase more auxiliaries, it would've cost us a total of 15pt of war support and still likely use up 2 Starfleet engineering ships.

And AFAIK, I still find it possible that we'd have to use up 2 Starfleet engineering ships for this, when we only have 6 total, 2 of which are reserved for the GBZ, and some of the rest probably ferrying around our damaged ships from the GBZ to repair/shipyards.

Hmm, I wonder if we could requisition an Apiata Worker Bee, their version of the engineering ship. They have fkn 38 of them - the nearest largest would be Tellarites at 7, at least according to the last MWCO report.

edit: Then again, Apiata likely use their Worker Bee for non-engineering purposes, since they only have 2 types of auxiliary ships: Bumblebee (their cargo ship) and Worker Bee. Note the complete lack of freighters here, so I suspect many of their huge fleet of Bumblebees and Worker Bees are busy doing freight transport.

Iron Wolf · Apr 10, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
I imagine this consisting mainly of desperate, wild-eyed Gaeni scientists staggering around Paris going "You've got to help me! He's a lunatic!"

Formatting on the link is being weird, try this instead.

Briefvoice · Apr 10, 2017

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
It's actually four weeks. We buy every 4 weeks, we assign every 4 weeks, alternating fortnights. By that time the ultimatum will have expired and we will be officially at war.

I'll note that the last time this came up, the Ked Peddah explicitly refused to work with the Atuin on the grounds that the Federation had not yet committed to war. Approaching them prior to the ultimatum expiring may be fruitless.

Granted that was likely the result of a failed Presence check, but it established an in-universe precedent.

Jenny · Apr 10, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
Ask Commodore Leslie

Getting into any good arguments over at Ana Font?

KlavoHunter · Apr 10, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
Out of respect for @OneirosTheWriter, and in the spirit of HAPPY BIRFDAY!!!...

Ask Commodore Leslie and Ask Enterprise are being extended for roughly another 24-36 hours, so expect them to run until roughly 36-48 hours from now.

I have to admit, I'm now curious what Dreams!Enterprise's interactions with Picard would look like...

I'm also wondering... What if our Enterprise-B survives an extraordinary amount of time, and her Enterprise-C successor is a Galaxy-class?

OneirosTheWriter · Apr 10, 2017

Yes, you can draw from existing logistics.

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Apr 10, 2017

Briefvoice said:
I'll note that the last time this came up, the Ked Peddah explicitly refused to work with the Atuin on the grounds that the Federation had not yet committed to war. Approaching them prior to the ultimatum expiring may be fruitless.

Granted that was likely the result of a failed Presence check, but it established an in-universe precedent.

Surely two weeks of lead time post-assignment is fine even if it's a matter of figuring out how to navigate Ked Paddah political and rank structures before drawing up an agreement. Better than negative two weeks.

lbmaian · Apr 10, 2017

OneirosTheWriter said:
Yes, you can draw from existing logistics.

Ok, I know the Starfleet Engineering Command will complain...but the Starfleet Logistics Command have been federalizing member cargo ships and freighters anyway, and GBZ commands have been relying on the Worker Bees already, so I believe that we can spare the probable 1 or 2 engineering ships for a Starfleet Engineering Command team. I'm up for it.

Briefvoice · Apr 10, 2017

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Surely two weeks of lead time post-assignment is fine even if it's a matter of figuring out how to navigate Ked Paddah political and rank structures before drawing up an agreement. Better than negative two weeks.

Or maybe it's not really that urgent? War-time maneuvering is a matter of months, not weeks. We need the Ked Peddah to sign off on eventual peace terms, but we can wait a bit.

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Apr 10, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Or maybe it's not really that urgent? War-time maneuvering is a matter of months, not weeks. We need the Ked Peddah to sign off on eventual peace terms, but we can wait a bit.

I feel we can afford it, though. We still get HI and Engineers and a Doctrine expert.

[X] Plan Diplomats and Starfleet Engineers
-[X] Starfleet Engineering Command (5pt from Starfleet, to deploy will require 2 cargo ships and 2 freighters to be sourced from member worlds)
-[X] Shorc Xurth Resource Combine - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Tellar, gain Heavy Industry asset)
-[X] Retired Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson - Doctrine Specialist (5pt Cost to Starfleet, gain Doctrine Specialist)
-[X] Generate Generic External Diplomacy Team from United Earth (10 Cost to Starfleet, 5 Cost to Member World, gain External Diplomacy Team)

Erandil · Apr 10, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Or maybe it's not really that urgent? War-time maneuvering is a matter of months, not weeks. We need the Ked Peddah to sign off on eventual peace terms, but we can wait a bit.

Eh, considering our rather abyssal relationship with them they could relatively easily drop in the negative range, something that seems especially likely to happen if we don't coordinate our war with them (which our low relationship makes once again more difficult) having somebody influencing the Ked Paddah seems like a worthwhile and important investment.

Simon_Jester · Apr 10, 2017

Iron Wolf said:
Formatting on the link is being weird, try this instead.

I may do that, but for now, hitting 'refresh' should work. At least it works for me.

lbmaian said:
Well first it's a cargo ship...

There's a reason I used a Homer Simpson analogy for myself.

And AFAIK, I still find it possible that we'd have to use up 2 Starfleet engineering ships for this, when we only have 6 total, 2 of which are reserved for the GBZ, and some of the rest probably ferrying around our damaged ships from the GBZ to repair/shipyards.

While this is true, it's also literally what our engineering ships are FOR.

Hmm, I wonder if we could requisition an Apiata Worker Bee, their version of the engineering ship. They have fkn 38 of them - the nearest largest would be Tellarites at 7, at least according to the last MWCO report.

edit: Then again, Apiata likely use their Worker Bee for non-engineering purposes, since they only have 2 types of auxiliary ships: Bumblebee (their cargo ship) and Worker Bee. Note the complete lack of freighters here, so I suspect many of their huge fleet of Bumblebees and Worker Bees are busy doing freight transport.

The flip side of this is, it sets a good precedent- that assets on one side of the Federation can and should be expected to assist in crises on the other side. This way we can tell the Rigellians, Earthlings, and Betazoids "they helped you when you had a crisis on your end of the Federation, it's your turn to help them" in the future.

Plus, if they have thirty-eight of those ships, they almost certainly can afford some minimum degree of 'stretch' in their deployment patterns and shake loose one or two for us.

Briefvoice said:
I'll note that the last time this came up, the Ked Peddah explicitly refused to work with the Atuin on the grounds that the Federation had not yet committed to war. Approaching them prior to the ultimatum expiring may be fruitless.

Granted that was likely the result of a failed Presence check, but it established an in-universe precedent.

The entire point of allocating external diplomacy teams is to shift the situation from "we're not working with you" to "we're open to working with you."

At a bare minimum, we need to at least get some minimal groundwork out of the way like "so, uh, who should we be talking to?" I'd rather get that dealt with before war starts so we can get useful coordination done sooner, rather than later.

anon_user said:
Getting into any good arguments over at Ana Font?

Commodore Leslie:

[ominous hummm and sound of grinding teeth]

[eyes start glowing]

[KA-STUN-BEAM]

KlavoHunter said:
I have to admit, I'm now curious what Dreams!Enterprise's interactions with Picard would look like...

I'm honestly not entirely sure that Picard would be able to see her. Pike couldn't. Harriman couldn't. Decker couldn't. I'm not at all sure April could.

There are some good reasons why Q constantly needles The Picard about his 'limited perspective,' it's not all Q being a jackass.

Simon_Jester · Apr 10, 2017

I'll probably be back later to further participate, but for now I'm just going to roll with this...

[X] Plan Diplomats and Starfleet Engineers
-[X] Starfleet Engineering Command (5pt from Starfleet, to deploy will require 2 cargo ships and 2 freighters to be sourced from member worlds)
-[X] Shorc Xurth Resource Combine - Heavy Industry (5 Cost to Tellar, gain Heavy Industry asset)
-[X] Retired Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson - Doctrine Specialist (5pt Cost to Starfleet, gain Doctrine Specialist)
-[X] Generate Generic External Diplomacy Team from United Earth (10 Cost to Starfleet, 5 Cost to Member World, gain External Diplomacy Team)

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Apr 10, 2017

I believe this is also the last turn that we need the 30 points / turn mobilization rate. We could certainly use it for one or two more turns, but no matter which vote we go with the amount of assets we need to draw to be ready is going down.

MTB · Apr 10, 2017

I surely hope the pacifist Council faction is satisfied with our diplomatic efforts.

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!

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