- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
You know, this conversation really nails the point home that we are mad, regardless of if a vote is occurring or not.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Hey, "Diplo-push the Biophage" isn't banned.
Have some micro-fluff for a bunch of techs we got this turn.
Colony Mainframe- The Draystrom CAM-9000 is the top of the line in Duotronic technology-and some say, the swan song of what is technically possible with Duotronic systems. After decades of technological advances, the latest CAM systems are at least ten to twenty years ahead of similar systems available in the Romulan and Klingon empires, which has lead to rumors of under-the-table purchase offers from both empires for their colonial infrastructure needs. But further advancement in capability has hit a wall-the duotronic transistor simply cannot shrink any more. Interference from string vibrations and quantum indeterminancy can be dampened out to an extent, but the added power consumption and heat output of further advances is expected to spiral out of control, increasing ten times for another 20% increase in computing power. BUt for a hardy colonial mainframe, the CAM-9000 offers a lot of advantages-automatic monitoring of critical systems, an integrated sensor system, and improved networking systems allow for a lot of the spare runtime to be spent on distributed scientific research.
DataNet 2.0 -New Datanet protocols supporting increased bandwith centi-cochrane subspace communications. Real-time interstellar video communications support and local holographic communications support are also featured. Less excitingly, large data packages can be transfered more efficently using new data compression methods with less loss of information. Improved communications will allow more seemless interaction with research and bussiness associates throughout the Federation.
Secure Console EPS Taps- New EPS tap circuit breakers and reinforced micro-EPS systems in terminals reduce plasma arcing events and severity of events. We still do not recomend firing a phaser into your console, but now it should only destroy the console, and not spray you with hot plasma death. However, in combat situations, plasma loads high enough to overload even this system can still be caused by damage to ships.
San Francisco 2 Pattern Away Team Kit- Semi-armored uniforms for hazardous duty, improved first-aid kits and micro-aid kits for individual crew members, radiation warning badges, perimiter alert beacons with improved range, a larger shuttle survival kit, and a weather-repellent cloak, overcoat, or poncho for optional use in rain or snow.
Miniaturised Molecular Scanner-New model Molecular Scanner replaces existing Mass Spectrometer Module on all standard Ticorders, eliminating the need for a specialist Large Molecular Scanner to be carried seperately from the standard Tricorder. The existing Large molecular Scanner is to be phased out as ships preform standard resupply, freeing up space in inventory for newer items of kit.
Colony Mainframe- The Draystrom CAM-9000 is the top of the line in Duotronic technology-and some say, the swan song of what is technically possible with Duotronic systems. After decades of technological advances, the latest CAM systems are at least ten to twenty years ahead of similar systems available in the Romulan and Klingon empires, which has lead to rumors of under-the-table purchase offers from both empires for their colonial infrastructure needs. But further advancement in capability has hit a wall-the duotronic transistor simply cannot shrink any more. Interference from string vibrations and quantum indeterminancy can be dampened out to an extent, but the added power consumption and heat output of further advances is expected to spiral out of control, increasing ten times for another 20% increase in computing power. BUt for a hardy colonial mainframe, the CAM-9000 offers a lot of advantages-automatic monitoring of critical systems, an integrated sensor system, and improved networking systems allow for a lot of the spare runtime to be spent on distributed scientific research.
DataNet 2.0 -New Datanet protocols supporting increased bandwith centi-cochrane subspace communications. Real-time interstellar video communications support and local holographic communications support are also featured. Less excitingly, large data packages can be transfered more efficently using new data compression methods with less loss of information. Improved communications will allow more seemless interaction with research and bussiness associates throughout the Federation.
Secure Console EPS Taps- New EPS tap circuit breakers and reinforced micro-EPS systems in terminals reduce plasma arcing events and severity of events. We still do not recomend firing a phaser into your console, but now it should only destroy the console, and not spray you with hot plasma death. However, in combat situations, plasma loads high enough to overload even this system can still be caused by damage to ships.
San Francisco 2 Pattern Away Team Kit- Semi-armored uniforms for hazardous duty, improved first-aid kits and micro-aid kits for individual crew members, radiation warning badges, perimiter alert beacons with improved range, a larger shuttle survival kit, and a weather-repellent cloak, overcoat, or poncho for optional use in rain or snow.
Miniaturised Molecular Scanner-New model Molecular Scanner replaces existing Mass Spectrometer Module on all standard Ticorders, eliminating the need for a specialist Large Molecular Scanner to be carried seperately from the standard Tricorder. The existing Large molecular Scanner is to be phased out as ships preform standard resupply, freeing up space in inventory for newer items of kit.
Some thoughts on "Well, They Try".
Yrillian diplomatic pushes have been kicking it. It might be worth our while to keep up the pressure next year. If we could get them over 300, I'm not sure exactly what would happen, but we might get similar results to the "lines of communication open" result we got from getting them at over 100.
...and we're down to a single Centaur-A on each of those borders. Which I hate so much.
So 5 destroyers, 6 cruisers, and 5 (very tough) combat frigates. This is them at wartime levels of mobilization, mind you.
Good to see Ainsworth's instincts confirmed.
I want our starbase so that the Cardassians will be the ones saying, "pushing them out of the GBZ in the future very difficult" about us
Oh shit. So the Cardassians have 2 heavy cruisers, 7 light cruisers, and 3 combat escorts under construction. That wouldn't be so bad except for the part where they're building 5 new shipyards, coming close to doubling their production capacity. How deep are their pockets?! If they can out-produce the entire Federation then, well, that would be bad. heck, if they can outproduce the Romulans at wartime production then that would be really bad. And we'll eventually hit our combat cap no matter what.
The only good news is that I don't see any new prototypes or refits on the list. If they have plans for a new ship or upgrades to their old, it's still on the drawing board.
Confirms our suspicion that there will be an unusual amount of Science checks involved in this war
It's not just the bonuses from Seruk's replacement, but I'm curious what kind of game input we'll get now that Personnel is one of "our people". The idea was originally that we would choose people for the Explorer Panel of Captains or something, but that was way back at the beginning of the game. Have ideas shifted?
Yrillian diplomatic pushes have been kicking it. It might be worth our while to keep up the pressure next year. If we could get them over 300, I'm not sure exactly what would happen, but we might get similar results to the "lines of communication open" result we got from getting them at over 100.
...and we're down to a single Centaur-A on each of those borders. Which I hate so much.
So 5 destroyers, 6 cruisers, and 5 (very tough) combat frigates. This is them at wartime levels of mobilization, mind you.
Good to see Ainsworth's instincts confirmed.
I want our starbase so that the Cardassians will be the ones saying, "pushing them out of the GBZ in the future very difficult" about us
Oh shit. So the Cardassians have 2 heavy cruisers, 7 light cruisers, and 3 combat escorts under construction. That wouldn't be so bad except for the part where they're building 5 new shipyards, coming close to doubling their production capacity. How deep are their pockets?! If they can out-produce the entire Federation then, well, that would be bad. heck, if they can outproduce the Romulans at wartime production then that would be really bad. And we'll eventually hit our combat cap no matter what.
The only good news is that I don't see any new prototypes or refits on the list. If they have plans for a new ship or upgrades to their old, it's still on the drawing board.
Confirms our suspicion that there will be an unusual amount of Science checks involved in this war
It's not just the bonuses from Seruk's replacement, but I'm curious what kind of game input we'll get now that Personnel is one of "our people". The idea was originally that we would choose people for the Explorer Panel of Captains or something, but that was way back at the beginning of the game. Have ideas shifted?
Is it going to become a thing where people write omakes about Ainsworth remembering various alternate realities based on different ways the game could have gone? I want so badly for this to become a thing.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
I'm willing to try, but this is gonna be a hard one.
I'd like to start increasing our Threat, maybe once every two years or so. It's not like we don't have cause to warn the Council about. Yes, expensive, but a necessary expense to take in advance, much like the Academy.
I'd need some reassurances that the Council won't simply shrug the next year and go, "Everything seems okay, time to ratchet the threat back down again." In other words, how "sticky" is Threat?
I think it is simply the advantage of being a significantly more militarized society that now starts to reap the benefits of its early aggressive expansion. I mean we have seen evidence that our members could also significantly step their production if it becomes necessary/in wartime and I simply think that the Cardassian run on a permanent semi-wartime economy instead of the heavily civilian focused peace/pacifists approach many in the Fed do.
Plus, one of the things seemingly missing in Oneiros economy model is any form of maintenance costs which coupled with the historically extreme long lifetimes of most space ships makes building ever more ships a very attractive option.
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I think we can safely ignore that concern. If the Council thinks there's no threat then they can just as easily rachet the threat from 10 to 9 as they can from 15 to 14. So stickiness is mostly moot.
- Location
- somewhere
I share your concern. Furthermore the cost of raising threat rises sharply with how high it already is (from 25 at the start of the game to a peak of 90 before the Treaty of Celos), and might possibly rise even more if raised due to lobbying rather than events.
Maybe we can approach the Pacifists and make a deal along the lines of raise max combat by X, raise min science by 2X.
Yes, but they can just as easily ratchet it from 15 to 9 if they think that 9 is the appropriate level. It's not like they have to move in 1 unit increments or anything. Of course I also note that "Increase Threat Level" also doesn't have a number attached.
How I actually envision this playing out is that we vote to buy the Threat Increase, and then Oneiros invites us to write a short "advice" explaining why we think the current threat level is insufficient and what dangers the Council is underestimating, and then he adjusts Threat Level based on how convincing he thinks we were.
The problem with that is that we are actually a bit too successful in regards to dealing with outside threats/factions. I mean the average Council member (and lets not even start about how the average citizen must view it) probably looks at the GBZ or the massive fleet headed to Licori and only sees victories/demonstrations of Fed strength which makes it a bit difficult to argue that we are on the verge of losing the arms race with our neighbours. Especially since I kinda doubt that we are openly sharing our intel about the antagonistic factions&nations with the public.
And of course there is a large narrative value for Oneiros in keeping the Cardassians as a serious threat around, especially since the game/quest becomes ever more focused on being about exactly this conflict.
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We've never treated threat and militarization as a "here is the right level". They've always been dials that are adjusted up and down. I see no reason to ignore the entire quest as precedent.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Eh, why?
I don't foresee threat going down until we finally start our war with the Cardassians. Our combat cap is currently 350. Even insane max combat build plans would barely touch that combat cap by 2320. And I expect our war to start by then.
Even then, our combat cap is likely to increase 40-60 points just from the 4-6 member ratifications I'm expecting in 2318-2320 once the moratorium expires (1 member = 10 extra combat limit). And, if we're really desperate, we can afford 9 point of militarization for 90 extra combat before the Council gives us the snake eyes (and interestingly, decreasing militarization is only 20pp more expensive than increasing threat).
I don't see the point.
[ ][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists. With an expanding Federation, Starfleet believes that a large fleet of well-rounded, multi-capable ships such as Explorers or even the humble Centaur-A is key to exploring the universe and making peaceful contact with other sapients. However short range sensor technology has become so sophisticated that even a minimal armament can make a utility frigate a dangerous combat threat and hence pushes the limits of the Council's tolerances for combat-capable ships. Starfleet proposes that the Council add a "minimum Presence requirement" similar to the "minimum Science requirement" but that in return the Combat cap formula be altered to 150 + (20 per Member) + (10 per Threat Point). (Note: Combat cap formula is currently 10 per member.)
- Location
- somewhere
As far as I can tell raising threat is completely useless as a long term measure. Note how the events involving the Licori never raised threat, despite demonstrating a clear and present danger to the Federation of a level sufficient to issue an ultimatum in preparation of declaring war. The only plausible explanation is that threat was already at "significant risk of war" level anyway. If threat had been low it would definitely have been raised. It seems likely that the actual purpose of the mechanic is to convince the council of coming dangers earlier than they would otherwise acknowledge them, i. e. when the danger we warned about is confirmed by events that means we are proven right, but there won't be a second threat increase.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I actually like this idea, particularly the presence requirement, but it's in no way, shape, or form important to do anytime soon. Save it for when Sousa is about to retire, if there's nothing else critically needed then.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I'm not convinced raising threat is all that valuable right now. We're a long way from the combat cap, and will run out of crew well before we hit it. We also have two techs finishing soon that will reduce the combat count of our ships. We have done a pretty solid job handling militarization points Thoughtmaster notwithstanding, so we have a margin to gain those without too much concern.
In the last snakepit, raising threat would have cost us 80 pp. We could get four new berths for that price, or an Academy Expansion and a Budget Increase. It just doesn't seem like a good use of resources.
In the last snakepit, raising threat would have cost us 80 pp. We could get four new berths for that price, or an Academy Expansion and a Budget Increase. It just doesn't seem like a good use of resources.
Threat is I think more of how secure the Federation feels, or to be more precise how confident it is in its ability to deal with outside threats. The reason why the Licori affair hasn't raised the Threat level yet is in my opinion due the fact that Starfleet/the Council is (over) confident in its ability to easily and quickly handle that affair. After all what need is there for even more combat ships when the Starfleet has shown its ability to quickly muster a fleet of overwhelming force without truly endangering the rest of the Federation/while keeping the Cardassian border manned. The logical, purely factual evidence simply conflicts with the experiences our members have 8plus we are still a far bit away from the combat cap so I wonder just what they will think we are planning to do if we want an increase of that already).
I agree, especially since using those points for diplo pushes will also increase our combat cap as well as sometimes provide significant "free" combat-power via member fleets.
And then there is of course the argument that it isn't Starfleet that needs expansion but the various individual member fleets themselves. After all why should Vulcan finance yet another folly of the foolish and imperialist president and her cronies when it could just as well invest them into its own fleet and keep control over where that gets used?
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Responding to some older posts:
So I just checked what the member nations actually are contributing of their total fleets:
UESPA:
Excelsior: 1/1
Constitution-B: 0/1
Constellation: 1/2
Centaur-A: 0/2
Miranda-A: 3/5
RDS:
Megatortoise: 1/1
Turtleship: 3/6
Oda-Gach Cutter: 3/6
Old Cutter: 0/3
BDS:
Patrol Cruiser: 1/3
Centaur-A: 1/2
Patroller: 2/6
Vulcans made noises about just sending a Connie-B and a pair of Miranda-As, so:
VHC:
Constitution-B: 1/1
Constellation: 0/3
Centaur-A: 0/1
Miranda-A: 2/3
Miranda: 0/2
Soyuz: 0/1
Oberth: 0/1
Non-majority-pacifist Earth and Rigel are contributing about half of their fleets. Majority-pacifist Betazed is contributing a bit more than a third. Majority-pacifist Vulcan is contributing just a fourth of their fleet, but by stat sum just under a third. Really wish they would contribute that Oberth though.
Do you have a source for this? Couldn't find anything, except what can be inferred from the mock battle and MWCO reports.
edit: found it: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-starfleet-quest.32005/page-1480#post-8081692
So I just checked what the member nations actually are contributing of their total fleets:
UESPA:
Excelsior: 1/1
Constitution-B: 0/1
Constellation: 1/2
Centaur-A: 0/2
Miranda-A: 3/5
RDS:
Megatortoise: 1/1
Turtleship: 3/6
Oda-Gach Cutter: 3/6
Old Cutter: 0/3
BDS:
Patrol Cruiser: 1/3
Centaur-A: 1/2
Patroller: 2/6
Vulcans made noises about just sending a Connie-B and a pair of Miranda-As, so:
VHC:
Constitution-B: 1/1
Constellation: 0/3
Centaur-A: 0/1
Miranda-A: 2/3
Miranda: 0/2
Soyuz: 0/1
Oberth: 0/1
Non-majority-pacifist Earth and Rigel are contributing about half of their fleets. Majority-pacifist Betazed is contributing a bit more than a third. Majority-pacifist Vulcan is contributing just a fourth of their fleet, but by stat sum just under a third. Really wish they would contribute that Oberth though.
Do you have a source for this? Couldn't find anything, except what can be inferred from the mock battle and MWCO reports.
edit: found it: https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...-starfleet-quest.32005/page-1480#post-8081692
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Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
Now, nobody would turn the Federation into an Emprie, but, taking the reins of command to ensure the survival of the federation and its way of life*? that is a different ballgame
*as defined by the new God King and Queen of Cheese
Now, Commodore Bio, as his friends call him/her/it/not-the-face, has a preternatural ability to replace crew losses, making the current O-E-T paradigm obsolete, and has a great skill in enhancing the networking between crew members to the point you'd swear they are a well oiled machine.
Bio's skill as a field officer is limited, but as a personnel one? unmatched (though the crew have complained transition into one of Bio's crews are a painful experience, at least during the transitional phase, but such complains disappear after this period, completely)